El Mozote Massacre (Revisited)

0:10 Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is Estudias Unknown, a podcaster. W We talk about Latin American history. Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like criticism, corruption, and genocide. But more than i it's also about resistance, power and community. Today is the anniversary of the massacre at Elmosote and we thought that today would be the best time to re release our episode where we discussed this massacre and Rufina Maya, a survivor of the massacre whose testimony brought all of this to light. But before we play that episode that we've already done, I did want to give an update. In that episode, we mentioned a court case that was currently stalled because of the Bucalet administration. But right now of the time of recording, the case of the Masulta massacre and the surrounding areas will proceed from the investigative face towards the public trial phase.

1:10 This means that the court will examinate the evidence and determine the verdict. This ruling was issued by South Doran Criminal Court on November twenty six, twenty five, and what this does is it clears the way for scheduling a public hearing in the near future. However, there is right now no information on when that date will be, nor is there any information regarding potential appeals by the defense. And thanks to the work of the survivors and the families who have been trying to seek justice for this massacre for forty four years and who have faced the state repeatedly shutting that fight for justice down, this is another step closer to that justice. The trial against former Minister of Defense Guillermo Garcia, who is the highest making official responsible for the massacre, as well as another twelve officers of the Atlaka Battalion of the Southern Armed Forces.

2:15 They all faced charges of murder, attempted murder, arsin rape, and aggravated coersion for what they did on December eleventh, nineteen eighty one. And like we said in the episode, this is the largest massacre in Latin America, where one thousand civilians, most of them children, were killed. And at the time of recording twenty twenty five, it's been thirty five years since the original complaint was brought to any sort of attempt at a trial, thirteen years since the Inter American Court of Human Rights order the persecution of those responsible and nine years since the case was reactivated following the annulment of the amnesty law that shielded it for twenty three years. And it's taken so long because of the Salvadoran government. In nineteen ninety two, former President Alfredo Christiani, who was also facing charges for things that happened during the civil war, he denied the existence of military files related to the case. And then in twenty twenty Nai Bukele blogged Corps ordered inspections of the military archives that Alfred Christiani originally denied existed. And then in twenty twenty one, Bukele's political takeover of the judiciary led to the removal of the judge who was presiding over the case of elmo Soote. And everything that I just said is paraphrased from a post by Cristosal, who we have mentioned before. I will link the posts that they

3:46 made about this. And now on to this episode again, listen with care. This is a very heavy episode, but today is the anniversary of Elmosote and we thought it was very important to re highlight this incident in history. Today is going to be a very heavy episode. I will warn everyone right now, this topic will talk about a massacre that happened in and rape. There was a rape involved. It happens during the Civil War, so there's you know, this is this was a massacre. I would go as far to say that it was an attempt at genocide possibly because like these are indigenous people that were in these areas, and yeah, and the rape. So if this that's something that is hard to here, then it's okay to skip this episode. And if you're gonna listen, just yeah, be ready for these horrible topics. Because at the time of recording, it's the fourteenth and on the eleventh of December, is it's it's the forty first anniversary of the Elmo Soe massacre. So that's what that's what we're going to be talking about today. For those of you, because there's a lot of people that don't don't know about Elmosote. I think you have to be Salvadoran and on top of that, you have to be looking for it's going to say you have to be solventorian, yes, and you have to be looking for the information because it is something that has been hidden. It has been tried, the attempt to hide it. It has been is it's been perfectly being done, yes, and changing the story of how

5:20 it happened. Also, some people don't even believe it happened. Oh my god, it's like the Holocaust deniers. Yeah, it's exactly like that. So before talking about the Elmsota massacre, some context is necessary. And if you've listened to my Spookitos podcast that we did last March, we talked about historic women and in one of those episodes, we talked about Rufina Maya, and Rufina Maya is a survivor of the of fuck I was gonna see the Holocaust. Sorry, it's a survivor of Elmosote and we tell her story specifically in that episode. Today, I'm going to be sharing more stories from other survivors, but I I'm also going to start out this episode with some context. But I think a reminder is good for everyone because not everyone remembers or knows about this. The Salvadoran Civil War lasted twelve years from nineteen eight to nineteen ninety two, and by the end of it, nearly seventy five thousand and Salvadorans had lost their lives. A lot of people went missing.

6:19 So after World War Two, two superpowers emerged the US and the Soviet Union, and they obviously would not go to war with each other because you know, nuclear war and mutual destruction. Instead, they waged proxy wars. The United States feared that Soviet expansion into They feared the you know, communism, the expansion of communism and everybody got into Eastern Europe, and so they and they didn't want it to get all over the world. And President Truman announced that the United States was going to contain the spread of communism. They were going to be the police of the world or whatever the fuck. And this is a truth. This is the trumant doctrine for those that don't remember. And so the United States, it's financially and in some occasions directly aided wars in Latin America to prevent quote unquote prevent communism. So I think we all know by now if you've been listening to this episode, that the United States has meddled in Latin America for a very long time now, time and time again. Yeah, with interest, with capitalist interests, and interest to prevent communism is the whole reasons.

7:26 And so sometimes presidents have been democratically elected and they will overthrow these democratic elections because these people don't favor the units in favor of dictatorships. Yeah, yes, yeah, so that's you know, that's why the United States was involved in Latin America. And so if we go back to Sarvadod, now, before the official start of the Civil War, tension between Campetinos rural people, people in the rural areas, right and the all thei garchs had been raising. One of the words. Occurrences of these tensions happened in nineteen thirty two when General Maximiliano or Nandez carried out in operation that is known as La Matanza the slaughter if you translate that into English. And this was the killing of thirty thousand coffee farmers, mostly indigenous Pep people of Itabador, and they were protesting terrible work conditions, and we talk about this in the Coffee episode, so our first episode. And these killings occurred in the span of a week. They went on to ban indigenous languages, traditions, clothing. This just widened the economic gap, leaving indigenous people that were in rural areas growing more poor while the oligarchs grew more rich.

8:45 And we have mentioned them a bunch of times, but the twelve families are the oligarchs, and that was fourteen. Sorry fourteene. Yeah, I am out of it. Yeah, okay, yeah, I'm very out of it. By the nineteen seventies, there was a middle class emerging, but the upper class was seen still at a super advantage, right, and so there was there was a resistance growing. Different groups of armed resistance were forming, and coffee farmers basically farmers were joining, you know, these groups becoming or big and this is what would become the guerrilla And then there were smaller guerrilla warfare tactics going on, but it wasn't to the point of the civil war yet and protests were also increasing.

9:38 By the nineteen eighties, the different armed resistance groups became one group. This was called the Frente Farrabundo Marti Parali Racial or now you know, just shortened to FMLN. This group was named after one of the leaders that were killed during La Matanzas. So when of the leaders that led that revolt was Fadabun no Macti and he was killed and we cover that in the Coffee episode. So Hunter, President Carter, in effort to address human rights abuses and inequality began in the Salvador. But once President Reagan took over, it went from address in human rights to just flat out stopping communism, that's what he called it. Under it was under the guys or whatever under Reagan, I mean, both economic and military aid were provided to the Salvadoran government.

10:38 While the FMLN was receiving aid from Nicaragua and Kuwa, who was receiving their aid from the Soviet Union. The FMLN did not receive anywhere near the amount of aid that the Salvadoran army did. So it was a lot of money, up to four billion dollars was given to the Salvadoran government. Sorry military, same thing. Yeah, yeah, during the height of the war, and it got to the point where it was like one to two million a day that was being given for military aid. There was a lot of human rights violations during the civil war, and it was written or told that or said, you know that the FMLN was doing was the one committing these human rights violations. After the war and after all that, there was a report or not a study, but investigation, that's the word I was looking for done. So a separate report done by the United Nations found that over the ninety percent of the human rights violations committed during the Civil War, it was all done by right wing military forces trained and ate it by the United States. Yeah, what a surprise, right, And even to this day, most people if they were not in these rural villages, if they were not in these left leaning areas, or the people that were near the Yes, if anyone was away from that, they will repeat this narrative. Yeah, that both sides were doing wrong. Oh, both sides did it, but

12:09 both the reality it's just what's been uh, how history has been rewritten. Yeah, it's what the Salvadorian government was saying, and it's what the United States government was saying and to the state will still say. But the report is out there, you can find it. And it I mean the UN acted as a like a neutral party or what. Yes, yeah, when they did their report. So the United States covertly aided, covertly aided a coup in nineteen seventy nine. Some historians now believe this coup was done on on the South Durians army owned their own accord, it wasn't the United States who you know was doing it. I don't know which one is right, but there was a coup, and this was the official start of the Civil War, though before this there were smaller revoltspin So the Moderate Democratic Party that took over was too liberal for the right wing group called Arena, who still I think there's still a thing to this day in sad Yeah, they are.

13:13 So after the Civil War, two parties emerged from that right and it was and actually that's something I'm going to talk about in the next episode, which is going to be about he's basically the third party. It's actually really good that you are. Yeah, yeah, that you're doing that. NXT leads into yeah, yeah, yes, the group are Ina, the New Democratic Party was too liberal for them. They were not liberal at all. Let me just state that right now. And so the the Arena they began ruthless tactics to get rid of the opposition. These tactics included killing activists and church leaders. And it's worth noting that during this time there was a huge movement in the liberations going on. So the liberation theology and the most basic of you know, definitions is the church helping the most vulnerable, and and they took a stand against the oligarchs, and you know, in most places that's not a thing that was being done, even though technically like that's what Jesus was aiming for, right, yeah, But most historically Catholicism were it was like they were rich and yeah yeah, so and then they were doing the opposite and they were writing yes, yeah. They really asked themselves, what would Jesus do? And they did they did, they did that. Yes.

14:43 Archbishop oscarro Metro, he was canonized as a saint in twenty eighteen, but he published a letter, a public letter to President Jimmy Carter, urging him to seize military aid to Sor. In his letter, he said political powers in the hands of the armed forces. They know only how to repress the people and defend the interests of the self zone oligarchy, and that US support would only sharpen the injustice and repression against the organizations of the people, which repeatedly have been struggling to gain respect for their fundamental human rights. So this letter was public. He did it on the on February nineteen eighty and he was assassinated, and partly because of his beliefs, because of what he was doing, but also because of this letter. He was assassinated on March twenty fourth, nineteen eighty and actually one of the captains responsible for this murder fled U s a Rador to avoid trial, and he lived in Modesto, California for years, which is where we lived. Yeah, that's where we went to high school. And he worked at US as a car's car dealership person, probably on Curws Landing, right, that's my guess. And he was there for years and then he fled from the US and he's hiding somewhere and I don't know, somewhere in the mountains. And he still hasn't taken blame for or he still doesn't think he's responsible for the murder of He hasn't taken accountability. Yeah,

16:14 but he now lives in poverty, begging for his children's forgiveness and they don't talk to them. So um okay, sorry, And that was a little offside, but I wanted to include it. So by the end of the war, it is estimated that two dozen priests had been assassinated, and the last six that were assassinated with that was in nineteen eighty nine. That case has been reopened and I think the former president Alfredo Christiani, he was going to be brought to justice for this and then he fled although in twenty twenty one, and so atrocities by the right winged group grew throughout the war. They used tactics that the US military taught them, specifically tactics called draining the sea or scorched earth tactics. And so what this means is that they would weaken the insurgency by going after civilians that supported the rebels, and these people were largely indigenous people Campecinos, farm workers in the countryside. So they were killing displacing civilians by the thousands by nineteen eighty one. The at Lakat Battalion, which is so ironic because that name is analogenous isn't it, Yeah, Sinawa, and but here they are it just it's just murdering. If that is not with their own language or whatever with the battalion name after yeah, because that is not Latin,

17:46 then I don't know what. Right. So this battalion was mobilized in nineteen eighty one and they were to be a rapid response counter insurgency battalion. They were trained and organized by the US Army in the School of Americas in Panama. Graduates of this School of Americas went on to commit some of the worst human rights violations like in existence. And these are all US trained people. What is that? I don't know. What that doesn't tell you anything about the United States? I don't know. I mean, yeah, So this battalion led scorched earth operations and one of the worst massacres known as Elmosote. And this wasn't done just in El Mosote, and this was in the Mosotes, like the biggest pueblo in that area, but there were pueblos leading up to Mosota. They did the same the same thing, and they've all just kind of been lumped together.

18:46 But La Jo, yeah, is one place, and then there's a few others, like to about three other people that were just really nearby and Mosota and they did the same thing to these people. So this is kind of where like the worst of it will be described. So on the evening on the seven of December tenth, nineteen eighty one, a few soldiers entered the village of Elmosote and demanded that citizens hand over their weapons. When the villagers said they had no weapons, the soldiers killed a few people and left. In the early hours of December eleventh, nineteen eighty one, the at La Cate, battalions stormed and occupied the village. They ripped people from their beds, They burned houses and animals. They gathered all the townspeople, separated the children, the men, and the women. The men were all murdered first so the kids and women could watch.

19:42 They were all beheaded. Many of the women were then raped so the children could watch, and then murdered. Soldiers laughed. This is like, I mean, all of it is disgusting and horrible. Children. Oh sorry, soldiers laughed as they threw children in the air before stabbing them. Oh, that is truly horrible. What kind of like the amount of dehumanization you had to have in order to do things like that like that is just it's unimaginable to me. Yeah, I yeah, for sure. Over the course of three days, it is estimated that a thousand people were killed. The following is trial testimony from a few of the different trials that have happened about this. So Amadeo Sanchez was eight years old when the massacre happened, and he said he told them. He told the judge that he survived by fleeing into the corn and see silfields with his father.

20:38 He heard as girls and women were raped. He hid and they hit him and his father hit until the soldiers left. Once there was silence and they were sure that the soldiers were gone, they returned to their village. They found the bodies of his mother and his two siblings, as well as those of his aunts, uncles, and cousins, and one adobe house. He testified that he saw the body of a woman who had been shot in the head. Next to her was a one day old baby boy. Oh my god, the baby boy's throat had been cut. And he told the judge that on the wall soldiers had written unina muertos sung guerri jerro menos one their child is one less guerri ya soldier. That is just horrible.

21:28 But that's what that's the shit. They would say, like like they mean, that's how you know this, Jennison, Like a guerdietro is an excuse or a code name for an indigenous person, you know what I mean. And it's like the same thing they would say, hear about indigenous people, and they did the same thing in Vietnam. They did the same These are tactics learned, I mean, that's how you know they were us trained. Yeah, so Henato Sanchez was forty nine on December eleventh, nineteen eighty one. At the time, he was living in the village of La Joya in the municipality of man Mangera Morassan, and Morassan is the department that El Moste is in. That's where his home is and he still lives there at the time that he gave this testimony, So he told the judge.

22:19 The following he saw helicopters landing in Arara Viecha and he saw soldiers shooting in the village of La Joya. He escaped with his life partner and four children. They just hid in a bush. On the night of December eleventh, nineteen eighty one, Sotero Guevara and Patrisodia's neighbors from nearby told came to his house crying because their family had just been killed. The grieving couple and the Sanchez family went together to Las Marias river in Lahoya, and then a week later they Sanchez when doing the testimony, Henaro Sanchez went to the Sotero home and they found it in ruins, along with the bodies of Catarina Chicas, Petronila Chicas, Housta Guevara, Jacinta Guevara, Roque Guevara, who Henaro calls his son Ambrosio Guevara, Lorenzo, bijuill Aminta Bijuill, Pedro Bihil. The entire families, entire generations, I mean, an entire fucking town.

23:31 Mm hmmm. And this was in La Joya. He says that they had to throw five women, two girls and two boys into a hole to bury them. They were there were nine of them. Jacinta uh Guevara was nine months pregnant. Oh, and he says that he this is his testimony. I touched one of the bodies that to put it in the hole and the flesh came off. And then they were just helping dig graves for the wounded or the dead, I mean, And they found further down from this house, they found sixteen more dead. Their families buried them. Just things like that. Let's see, if you recall the names, there was people with the last name Chicas, so Lydia Chicas. She was part of that family.

24:25 So she gave testimony as well. And also one more thing. So when the first trial happened in the nineties, and that's the trial that Rufina Amaya also testified in and their testimony that I'm about to that I already shared one. I'm about to read the next one next. They wouldn't even the courts wouldn't even acknowledge them as victims or survivors. So what they have been become known as is the party. They have been called the offended. So when you look at documents, it says the offended versus the government or the military. It doesn't say the victims. It's the offended. Disgusting, but all all of that to not take accountability, you know, so when they have to say they had to test they have to testify or state how they were offended.

25:14 That's how they have to it's addressed in court. So Lydia Chicas and this is her testimony. On December thirteenth, nineteen eighty one, at six in the morning, in the village of Bosa Onda in Mangeira, she says, I saw a great number of men in green uniforms armed with rifles and machetas. About eight in the morning, they began to kill people who lived there. I heard the people shouting and the sound of blows like cutting a banana tree. While I was hiding in some bushes. I saw when they killed Sinfhooyes with their machetas and his wife Okenyadas, who was pregnant, and their four children, who were miners.

25:56 The children were talking to their father and mother. They said, mommy, get up. How could they get up? They were already dead. Her parents Padro Chicas, Florentina, Meha Mahiah. Sorry, they were killed in the massacre. Her brother Omad Omad was slashed in the face, his fingers were mutilated. Her sister Agustina was on a rock that she found. Sorry. She found her sister Agustina on a rock with her skirt lifted, her parents down dead, her three younger siblings, her grandmother, her three uncles, her aunts, her cousins. In total, fifty five of her relatives were killed in this massacre. How many fifty five? Oh my god, that's like her whole family.

26:40 Whole family. And that's the thing about these communities, and back then people still lived in these large amounts. So yeah, entire families like like the whole, not even just like because people think family, they think a media family. No, they like this whole everyone extended, like every higher family. Yeah. Yes, so if this is in the in the article that I got this from, it was from the trial. But so the person that and these are all basically these are all sort of el Fao and those stars are going to be linked by a lot of this is from Elfaro. So the reporter that wrote this up said, she said fifty five. I asked another reporter covering the hearing. Yes, she said fifty five. If a thousand people died in the most with the massacre, five percent were Lydia's relatives.

27:37 And the silence in the courtroom was apparently unbearable, which I mean, like just reading this is I mean, how do you and I know she did, because you know she's testifying and stuff, and I'm like, how do you go on like that? Like how do you write on top of like the trauma, the grief, yeah, the survivor's guilt, all of it. So I also found for the first time in twenty twenty, they were able to find two soldiers that testified in from the battalion and so their identities were kept hidden. They were known as Huan And they do not deserve that, Honestly, they don't deserve that, but they were given that. And I think it's just so that they can have them alive to actually do the trial, because they would they would be killed. That makes sense, A hundred percent believe they would be killed by the government in order not to shit more. Yeah. Yeah, so, and have I found one of their testimonies? So this wasn't a November twenty twenty, twenty twenty, sorry, November twenty twenty trial. Two of the soldiers in the battalion testified, and their testimonies solidifies what survivors of the massacre have been saying for decades because a lot of people are were trying to like deny, have tried to deny and silence the survivors for decades, but the testimony of this soldier really solidifies what they've been saying too. So this is from the one that they call Juan. You're going

29:09 to ask me about the massacre at in Mossote, Morossan in December nineteen eighty one, cer Juan, and his voice was changed. He was hidden behind a wooden divider. Only the prosecutors and the judges know their true identities. Wow. So he says, it was the beginning of December, a few days before I was at the al Atlakat Battalion headquarters in No Pico La li Ertad. I joined on March first, nineteen eighty one. I was there because I earned a little more where I was before in the second Infantry, Bigreat Brigade. Sorry can't talk. I was in the second of six companies, each with one hundred and sixty men. The commander of the Atla cat Battalion was Colonel monter Rosa and second in command was Natividad Jesus Cassarees.

29:57 Captain Mauricio Isak Duke Osano gathered us. He was a skinny, tall, white, curly haired man. They told us to load up into the trucks. I put on my rucksack and climbed into one of the eight trucks. We came here to San Francisco, Go Terra. The company got out to go to the store and eat something. The leaders entered the barracks. Among those who entered, I remember Perez Riez and Alvado Alavado Guevara. They were there for about forty five minutes. When they came out, they ordered me back into the truck. I put on my pack and we traveled to Perguin, where we slept in the hillside. At nine the next morning, they lined us up. I mean, all, this is like Mahala got there. Okay, well it's about to get there, so I might as well just read it and feel like I got this far. Yeah. Yeah, So at nine the next morning they lined us up. Sergeant Juliosesaravas Masquez Martinez and Sergeant Martinez Martinez were there. We began marching.

30:53 We didn't know where we were going or why we were traveling on foot down paths that led to Almosote. We arrived between eleven in the morning and twelve. The soldiers started forming groups while I stayed behind with the rugsacks. Aside from the groups, the rest of the unit was assigned to the perimeter, watching the terrain, which was both flat and hilly. Lieutenant Alvaro Alvaro Guevara ordered them to form groups because they were going to kill people. He received orders from monte Rosa, who received orders from general staff. A soldier, a corporal or officer can't make such a decision alone. Alvaro Guevara ordered them to pull the people out of the hallways and patios of the houses. They ordered the group the other groups to start killing them.

31:39 I saw Corporal Martinez ca Jejas, Corporal Remberto Rees Lopez and s Moreno Granada shooting. I was about fifty yards away looking after the equipment. We were carrying ammunition, clothes, food for three days in our rugsacks, but careless eaters would finish it. On one day. We carried in M sixteen. The uniform was olive green with the Atlacat patch on one other and one other heavenly detail. It came with the helmet of fiber and steel. I saw the people children from ages two of six, women and men, dressed humbly. These soldiers of Atla Cat shot them dead. After killing them, they left them there and we regrouped. They began to burn down the houses. I didn't report this before because if I did, they would kill me. I also didn't have the opportunity. I'm poor and I work constantly. I told them what they were doing to the children was injustice, but I couldn't stop it because I wasn't their boss.

32:37 I was in an Almosota for two days and two nights. After we traveled for about three hours along the path to San Fernando Gotera. That's where the trucks arrived. And this goes along with the testimony that villagers have always said. The attacks lasted two days. They marched, and as they marched, they stopped in other villages. And there's one girl, well she was a girl at a time, I'm Vidya. She saw them get into the buses. He says, that's where the truck's going, not buses, trucks. She saw that happen, and he said truck corroborates her story, which, of course, I mean, people believe, but the deniers needed like prove I guess. Yeah. And the information about the battalions is what has always been known as well, that there were six companies of one hundred and like whatever a number he said, just like it does further prove that Italian existed. Yeah, I'm just like sorry, I want to believe him that he said it was wrong and maybe, I mean, of course, one soldier who believes all of this is wrong doesn't have the power to act on any of it. And Ruffina Maya's testimony, she heard a soldier say this, I think Gong Entry was killed saying that in the Your Spooky Tales episode about her. Yeah, h and I do

34:07 have her testimony here should I say it again, even though I've shared in that episode, I think it's worse repeating all right, Well, we will then, of course share her testimony again. It is a little long and very hard to listen to. So warning again, because this is actually worse than it's just a lot more detailed because I found a video of her sharing her testimony and I translated it word for the word, So it's just very detailed. And the reason I say it's worth sharing is not to talk about the horrible things that happen, but because this is her testimony, right, and she like survived all of this and was strong enough to share it again and again and again. Yeah, and so that's why I say it's worse. And she's no longer here with us, that's right, so someone has to keep sharing it. Yeah, it's important to so as we both sorry, we won the good tea breather at the same time, we did know you're okay, yeah, okay. So Ravina Maya was at the end of the line of women when they were separated into groups of men and women once the soldiers had arrived at almoste She was at the end of the line of women because she fought and fought when they ripped her children from her arms, that's why she was at the end. And because she was at the end, she managed to escape when a woman in front of her in line was fighting against the guards, and they

35:37 all kind of went towards that woman. She went down on her knees and crawled away, and while they were all busy, and that's how she crawled away and hid. She crawled towards the pine and crab apple trees. She pulled two branches down and she held onto those branches from five pm until one am to continue hiding herself. And she stayed there, crawled and hiding that long. She heard as they killed men women. She also saw them preparing to leave when one soldier said nos gavrones, meaning there were still children. One soldier opposed, saying they could just take them with them as prisoners, but the person said if they let The person in charge said, if they let the children live, they would become future yeri jeros.

36:34 So Rufina Amaya heard them as they murdered the children. She heard the children scream and cry. She heard them, Sorry, this is just hard, it's hard to read. Yeah, So she heard them cry out for their mothers. But of course the mothers were all dead already, and so were their dads. Right. She fought the urge to leave her own hiding spot because she heard her own children. She knew her own children were among the kids, and she stayed put, and she cried and begged to liven. There was a lupa for forgiveness. She knew that if she moved, she would be killed two and she knew then that her purpose was to share this atrocity with the world.

37:21 There were soldiers everywhere, and she wasn't sure how she was going to escape. And I didn't include this in the notes, but she did hear her own children screaming out for her, like it's just so durable, it is, And I didn't let that own. She couldn't do anything because obviously she knew she wouldn't survive. She you know, asked it upon it, which is why he said she fought the urge. But I'm like those the rings you know, to do that I can't and if because if she had, you know, might not even know about this, Yeah, exactly, And that's what I'm saying, Like she knew that she needed to to tell this story. She was the first survivor to tell her testimony, the first one. So she did hear her own children calling her name. But I just didn't write that part down because I would not have been able to read it. But she did hear that.

38:14 So there were soldiers everywhere. She didn't know how she was going to escape, but a herd of cows and a group of dogs were passing by, and she crawled between them. She crawled for a good while among the animals, and then she dug a hole with her bare hands and she hid there. That's where she started to cry for the first time that or more since since this happened, and she said that she felt like she wanted to die. She cried and begged and prayed for help to keep going, and eventually she did. She continued to crawl. She even crawled past a sleeping soldier. By the time she was spottish, she was too far so they did try to fire at her. They attempted to find her, but by some miracle, they failed. And in her video it's I I will link it in the show notes, but in her video where she's telling the story, she's stood in Elmosote where all this happened, and she's walking the path that she walked to high and she's walking along and she's like a guiz on the mescondi bachaqui, like I went down this path, I hit right here, this is where I dug the hole, like she's pointing all this out. If you know Spanish, it is one hundred percent worth watching the video, though again it is very hard to watch, but it is her telling her own story, and she's in the place that happened. She's showing the tree she hid at like everything it's yeah, it's it's a lot by some miracle, she says. They failed to find her.

39:46 She could hear the soldiers looking for her. One of them said, aquino nadas pantan, there's no one here. It's the dead trying to scare us. She hit among them at gay plants until the next day. Then she traveled through the Magay field until she reached a river. She walked along that river for a long time until she found a little house. That's where she stayed for six days. She estimate estimates that ten days past since she Skiedel Mosote. She was cold, hungry, and thirsty, and she prayed to God to find other people. After she left the house. A little girl and her mom found Rufina. They took her in, cleaned her, and they went looking for Rufina's oldest daughter, who no longer lived in in Mosote. When the massacre occurred, Getdiyettos came across Rufina. They had seen the remains of what the army had done, but they were not aware of survivors until they found Rufina. She told them what they saw, and they broadcasted a mass on the night of the thirty first, and they this is where they said in memory of the one thousand massacred citizens. Before that, nobody knew. So this is the first time she shared her to the mooney with the people who did Benceremos or Vencemos. I can't remember right now.

41:06 I don't write it down. I think it's ben Ceremos the radio. If you've if you've seen the movie Votes No Sentees, Venceremos or Vincemo's Radio. It comes up a lot. I just don't remember right now. I'm drawing a blink, but it's one of those two. But they are the first ones to have brought it to their public, to their audience. Then President Duarte got on the air, denied the accusations himself, writing it off as Garia propaganda. At the time, it was true that Geria did not have the exact amounts of the people and they they said one thousand, but there was never not an official cow at the time. After that, Rufina was reunited with her oldest daughter and she took her in and helped her start eating again. Rufina was distraught. I mean, she had just she lost four children at her eldest daughter was pregnant, and she would tell her, like, mom, please, you have to eat. We only have each other left. And if you won't, if you don't eat, I won't eat, and your grandbaby will die. Not the way I'm saying it, but but yeah, but yeah, and I mean, yeah, I believe it. That's a lot of us framed things like that.

42:20 And you know, so Ruvina did begin to eat because of that, and she regained her strength little by little. When she talks about it now, she doesn't tear up retelling their story until she talks about her children, obviously, you know. But the hardest part for her is talking about her own children. So they were nine, five and three and eight months old. Their names were. I know when I first read this, Sammy was around eight months old, and that was like crying like a little baby reading this, especially this next part. So their names were Christino, Mariadoldo, Maria, Lilian, and Maria is Sabel. Again, a very common thing back then was to name your baby's Sorry, we have our own aunts. Our own theaters are basically all Maria, yeah, our own mothers. So it was very common to have the first name be Maria and then to always call the baby the middle name. So our own mother, her first name is Maria. She doesn't go by Maria and a lot of our other tias. It's the same thing.

43:28 So before people are like, why is there three Marias, that's because to her they were probably the lost Liliana and Isabel, Yeah, on top of the other nicknames they probably had because yeah. So she says that at the time, she cried, and she cried because she was still nursing her eight month old and her body didn't know that the baby was gone, and she continued to produce breast milk and every time Rufina felt the milk, because I mean, you haven't breastfed yet, Karmeen or I don't know if you're ever will because a lot of people don't want to. And that's fine. Yeah, so your body does continue to produce breast milk. And then you know, if your baby's crying and you're like at work and you hear a crying baby, you feel it and it has a very weird feeling. And if you don't pump or nurse, their hurts.

44:21 And it was painful for Rufina because then it was also a reminder that she was supposed to be fitting a baby, her baby was not supposed to be dead, and her body didn't know. And you know, after a while, Rufina no longer cried. She began to say, I'm gonna get word out. I'm gonna begin to tell what happened. So after a month, a month after the massacre, three journalists met with the g Rieos and they they told them about Rufina. So Rufina spoke with them, told them everything. Six after the killings, the Washington Post ran a front page story with the headline Salvadoran peasants described mass killings.

45:07 Women tells of children's death, that women is Rufina Maya, followed by the New York Times story headlined massacre of hundreds reported in Salvadoran village. The official US investigation concluded that it was not possible to prove or disprove excess violence against civilians by government troops. But it is certain that guerrilla forces established defense holes in the area, and they did nothing to remove civilians in the path of battle, Nor is there evidence as civilians made an attempt to leave. They found no evidence that the number of civilians was anywhere near the mounth that had been circulating. That's a bunch of bullshit, Yeah, and that was said at the time, and so that's just you know, what was being reported by the United States at the time. So Rufina Maya says, I don't think this has been easy. It has been very hard, and yet there are people who deny this happened.

46:05 It happened. I was there, I survived those who suffered. No, this is the truth. She said this in nineteen ninety during the other trial, through the first trial. That sorry, the other testimonies I read those were during the same trial. Her and another survivor, pedro Chica's rometro Chica still recognize that last name. So they were the ones who filed the first criminal complaint against the battalion, and Rufina Maya was the first to testify before filing the nineteen ninety complaint a month after the massacre. That's when Rufina met with the reporters and told them what happened. She didn't think about how she would become a trigger herself. After sharing what had happened, she said, why wouldn't I share the truth? It's what happened. The Salvadorian government denied it happening, so did the US government, and Rufina, knowing that they were basically called in her a liar, she continued to tell the story again and again. She talked to journalists.

47:06 She presented her testimony to the British Parliament, to the US Congress, to organizations across Europe and Canada. She presented her testimony during her protest in front of the School of Americas, which had been moved before Benning. They did eventually get this place shut down, by the way, and she went up against two whole governments to tell her truth. Even after journalists released her testimony, both governments insisted that any casualties were poorly armed rebels. The United States didn't want another Miley the Vietnam story in their history, so of course they were going to deny this. And again that was the mass murder of Vietnamese civilians by infantry units in the US Army, so that was actual US army.

47:56 So they were going to do whatever they could to discredit Rufina Maya. But Rufina, she continued to directly contradict the statements of the US and the Salvadorian governments with her testimony, and her testimony was vital to the investigation that was led by the United Nations. And this was the investigation that allowed the exhumations to occur and the bodies or the exhumation that was done in nineteen ninety two, and that would not have happened without Rufina Maya. And once the bodies were all e zoomed, then the account Rufina's account was officially confirmed because there was children found among these people. On the twenty fifth anniversary of Almosote, Rufina Maya said, I'm not afraid. Maybe next December I won't be here, but I asked that you never abandoned the memory of our children, of all the victims of elmos Sote. That was on the twenty fifth anniversary at the time of recording the So we're recording on a Wednesday for the fourteenth and the day before this episode's gonna come out, so on the eleventh. That of twenty twenty two of December. It's the forty first anniversary of en Mosote. Oh, that was on the twenty fifth anniversary.

49:22 So it's been twenty something more years now, mm hmm. Yeah. Rufina lived in on Dudas for a while. She would continue to testify when needed, if journalists, reporters, literally anyone, anyone. The a random YouTube channel has is people who have her story up like she would just whoever ask her, she would share her story again and again. She never denied a visitor. She became a lay minister for the Catholic Church when she was living here in that and on Dudas. I think or was she back in Savadorda, Sorry I didn't, I think in Sara Vadoda and she worked with other survivors the civil War. She passed away from a stroke on March nineteen thousand and seven in Santa Valor. She died before she could see any sort of justice for the loved ones she lost that at Mosote.

50:16 The war ended with a treaty in nineteen ninety two, and this treaty included in amnesty for the military and so this made it so no one could be tried for any of the atrocities atrocities that took place during the civil war, and this included Mosothe. However, this treaty was found unconstitutional in twenty sixteen. So this is what made them pursue the people that committed war crimes during the civil war because they found they went. The way they went after to go about this was to declare that treaty and constitutional, and so Judge Jrge Guzman Urkiya reopened the case for Elmosote in March twenty seventeen. He charged eighteen high ranking military officials for war crimes or crimes against humanity. And when the case was reopened in twenty sixteen, Rufina's youngest daughter, Maria Marita Amaya, continued her mother's work, sharing testimony and advocating for the victims of Elmosote, but she noticed that she was being followed and one day a man dressed in camouflage and a bus threatened her her life. So she requested asylum in the United States and it was granted, so she's no longer in Aencelerado.

51:37 This is new information that I found. But during a pre trial hearing in April twenty twenty, it was revealed that a United States military advisor, Sergeant Major Allen Bruce Hazelwood, was and then Morosan sorry, Mora san, sorry, I can't talk today with Colonel Domingo monte Rosa. If you'll remember from the test soldier's testimony, this was one of the leading individuals of Colonel Domingo monte Rosa, the commander of the at La Gte Battalion. So this revelation was done by expert witness Terry carl and she has done an insane amount of work and she's basically an expert on the Salvadoran Civil War. She has read any document in existence of the civil war, she has read it, and I think she's like an anthropologist or something like that, sociologists probably one of those. But she found in one of those documents, she found that this US military advisor was present, so he was like hondering, so he knew yes.

52:45 So if the US continues to try to say they had nothing and no involvement. This fool was there mm hmmm, so they can stop denying their bullshit. Yeah, he was there when the order was given. So in twenty twenty, the investigation of Enmosote is still ongoing. What's still ongoing? It's still ongoing now. It hasn't gone anywhere because of Bukele. President Nai Bukele was blocking the investigation, claiming the judge had no jurisdiction over the military hiding milk, the request for military documentation, just not giving it up, saying he's saying this documentation didn't exist. He kept handing over documents that judges already had. And then in twenty twenty one, Bukele passed legislation that would force the judge judges over sixty to retire, and this included Judge Guzman who was overseen or conducting the investigation of n Mosote. Then the Supreme Court announced that Guzman could stay on, but then he said if all the other judges were fired, he would quit. But it looks like Bukele got what he wanted. Ye, he did get this to pass. Yeah, so it wasn't Gusman who decided to retire, like he fired all of them.

54:05 So let's see December twenty twenty one, this did that's when this happened. All the judges were fired. The trial has to start over. In February twenty twenty two, sixteen more bodies were e zoomed in a mass grave and they were found to be victims of nmosote. So as of right now, the trial has not moved forward, and they're like basically deny, trying to deny is it happened still, or saying things like we can't live in the past. We can't. It's more painful to bring up the past. It's bullshit, And yeah, people deserve justice because it's not completely in the past. First of all, we should never forget the past. No, that's like you know when we talk about slavery here and people are like, it's in the past, but that's even further back than this, you know.

54:59 So that's just a bunch of bullshit because the government doesn't want to take accountability and they want to continue with their like authoritarian techniques and stuff, and they want to continue with their anti indigen eighty you know what I mean. Yeah, and I just want to end this with this is called the poem of the offended. It was written by Roquet Dalton Dalton, I don't know. He's a selfdan poet, though very well known poet that I don't. I don't know. So he says, or this is the poem. Part of the poem in English, the hour of my turn has come, the turn of the offended salients for years, despite the screams hush, hush, listen. And I did write it in Spanish as well, or not write it, but copy and pasted it in Spanish. The whole thing. I just don't know how to say. May abbas, may abbas Abbe.

55:56 I haven't said That's what I've been saying, Yeah, whatever, just saying, okay Abbe. Abbey is gol piadotando like cre Mano and Rostro the casto commona floor on the vera ma abbas and Carcelado aun mass convesto ojos ira iracundos moriendos the frio mi corazon paco del Audio. Abbey is the spress siadamor oh race t cardis abbas, the spressors reis test whatever, the real ruboroso sincere and tan los la brintos demura Aura is Laura. This is the part that I translated Aura is lauramool ferndido poro silioso a p the Los gritos Escucca escucca m that's the easiest part of that to pronounce. But yes, that was El Mosote long episode. Yeah, that was so heavy too. Yeah, talk about these things, but it's necessary, it is, and the anniversary just happened, which is why I was like, I know, I've already said part of this on his Spooky Tales, but I haven't shared the other testimony and the newest, newest information on the trial. And I just hope that it moves forward. But it also is a good thing to listen to before your topic because Nai

57:29 is part of this. Now, there's a lot of things that you can talk about about Nai Bukele, but I think I'm gonna narrow it down to the state of exception. Okay, yeah, but I mean there's a bunch of bullshit, right Bitcoin, Yeah, Beach or whatever he redained that stupid shit. Yeah, the judge thing. You already talked about that. But basically, you know, he's on his way already. He's known as the he's as a dictator. Basically, oh, one hundred percent not Basically it has like a name, the kind of like dictatorship that he is. I don't know. I don't want to call it his brand, but it's like, yeah, no, I get what they call it. I think I wrote it down somewhere or I saved the article. But it's like millennial authoritarianism or something like that's what they're calling that shit. Yeah, yeah, and I we are going to leave you with this very depressing episode. We're gonna take a break to process. No, no, but we are going to take a break because we're gonna be hanging out. Yeah, we're going to be together in IRL in IRL. So yeah, we're gonna be taking a break until the new year. So we'll be back with a new episode on the fifth of January. And I know you said this was a depressing episode, but more than that, it's a story of resist and oh yes,

59:02 and yeah, how sharing our truths holds you know, people accountable who try to get away less shit even though they have been held accountable. But people know the atrocities now, you know what I mean. And we're gonna make it more known. Okay, like we're gonna keep talking about this, yes, every very anniversary, No me neither. Yeah so yeah. Happy Holidays, Hug your loved ones, and Fuck Reagan by my Estorias Are Known. Is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources for every episode at Estoria Unknown dot com and in our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot of work, so if you want to help us out financially, you can do so by supporting us on Patreon at patreon dot com. Slash She studied as an own podcast