Sept. 3, 2026

When Futbol Got Political Part 2

When Futbol Got Political Part 2
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"Keep politics out of sports" is something heard a little too often, but these two have never really been separate. To further show that, Cristina tells Carmen about another very political football match, Argentina vs England, 1986. What made it political? The short but devastating war between the two countries just four years before this historic match. Las Malvinas were brought up once again as the two national teams faced each other in the 2026 World Cup.

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Sources:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/jul/14/england-argentina-world-cup-2026-rivalry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War#Casualties
https://www.npr.org/2026/07/15/nx-s1-5893686/old-rivals-new-battle-argentina-and-england-clash-in-world-cup-semifinal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_v_England_(1986_FIFA_World_Cup)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_FIFA_World_Cup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da_CDPRG2j0
https://talksport.com/football/world-cup/559182/argentina-legend-diego-maradona-says-hand-of-god-goal-against-england-revenge-falklands-war/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-18425572
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands#Sovereignty_dispute
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FIFA_World_Cup
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet#Falkland_Islands_venture

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WEBVTT

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Hi, everyone. This is Carmen. And Cristina. And this is

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Historia As Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin

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American history. Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics

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like racism, corruption, and genocide. But more than that, it's

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also about resistance, power, and community. Also, we're recovering from

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a cold, and that's why we sound like this, if

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we sound different, which we should. We sound a little

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more nasally. Our break didn't go as planned because illness

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was not planned. But you never plan for those things, right?

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I never think they're going to happen, no. I know. Anyway, yeah,

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we're back. And the World Cup was wrapping up as

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we went on our break. And even though it is

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long over, it is still in my heart, still in

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mi corazón. And we're still sick with football fever. We're

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sick with the cold and with football fever. That's right. Yeah,

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I've been watching Liga MX. I haven't been watching any,

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but I've been keeping up with them. Subreddit. So yeah,

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I've been checking which Mexican players have made it to Europe.

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Me too. Anyway, it's still in my heart. And that

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is why we're doing a part two of the most

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political football matches. And also because I said we would

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last episode. Well, yes. And I'm glad because I thought

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it was a very interesting topic. I have so much

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fun doing these topics. And there's just an endless amount

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that we could do. I also read this book called

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How Soccer Explains the World. And fascinating, fascinating. I learned

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so much about the EPL, the English Premier League, about

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some of the history there. Lots of anti-Semitism. Wait, we

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should do a Patreon. Why didn't I think of this?

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We do a Patreon episode about the book. Oh my God,

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we'll do that. We'll do that. It was a lot.

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It was fun to read. There was also a section,

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a very interesting section about Brazil. Brazil. That would be,

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I feel like that would be kind of wild. Yeah. Yeah.

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So it's a very fun read. Anyway, let's, before we

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go more off topic here and not start the episode yet,

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let's start this episode. Let's do it. As we said

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in the last episode, part one of this, politics and

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sports have never really been separate, although some would try

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to have you believe otherwise. It's just not true. They've

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always been intertwined. As has everything with politics. Everything is political.

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That's right. In the last part of this, I talked

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about the 1978 World Cup, which took place in Argentina.

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And we specifically talked about Argentina versus Peru in that

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World Cup. And we also talked about Chile versus the

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Soviet Union in 1973, which was a qualifier for the

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1974 World Cup, which took place in West Germany. And

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just like where these World Cups take place, also political.

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Because why was it in West Germany? Why not East Germany?

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We all know why. Yeah, we all know why. Also,

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which teams make it. Exactly. Which teams have the resources

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to pay their players to fully dedicate themselves to the

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game and training, which ones have to keep working full

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time while playing, you know? So today I will be

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telling you, the listeners and Carmen, about Argentina yet again,

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because for some reason they're always at the scene of

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political football matches. They really are, huh? They are. They are.

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The same context for the 1978 World Cup applies to

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what I'm talking about today, Argentina versus England 1.0, because

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we had 2.0 in the 2026 World Cup. What? Argentina

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versus England. 2.0 recently. Yeah. Okay. Okay. 1.0 in 78. Okay. Yeah. Sorry.

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For some reason, I just couldn't comprehend that. I think

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it's my sick brain. No, sorry. 1.0 took place in 1986,

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but the same context that we already talked about for

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the 1978 World Cup that happened in Argentina applies to this.

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The dictatorship was still going on. Sort of. Okay. Well,

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I'll just let you get into it. But the point

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of all this is that Argentina versus England 2.0 was

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also a little political. Okay. Wow. Yeah. So, Argentina versus

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England 1.0. What I'm calling 1.0. They had played before that,

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but I'm calling the 1986 match the first very political

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match between the two. Oh, I see. Argentina versus England 1.0

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took place in 1986, just three years after the military

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junta was disbanded. I see. Yeah. And as we said

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in part one, during the dictatorship, the military junta enacted

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the dirty war in which the military security forces and

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death squads hunted down anyone who was considered subversive. Any

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political dissidents of the junta, socialists, communists, peronistas, montoneros, which

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was a guerrilla. Guerrilleros. Yeah. Union leaders, members, union members.

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I mean, students, journalists, artists, teachers, anyone, literally anyone. It's

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estimated that between 13,000 and 30,000 were either killed and

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or disappeared. Also, this dirty war is where the term

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disappeared as a verb, like it was coined for this war.

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Like they were disappeared. Yeah, like not they disappeared, they

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were disappeared. Yes. By the 1980s, Argentina was in economic collapse.

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The Junta was growing more and more unpopular among the people.

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In December 1981, the military junta changed hands. It was

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now headed by General Leopoldo Galtieri, Air Brigadier Basilio Lami Doso,

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and Admiral Jorge Anaya. This was December, right? In March,

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they also changed, like, they had another change of, like,

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who was in power. Okay, so a lot of... A

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lot of... Yes. Because in March of 1981... General Jorge

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Rafael Videla, who we've mentioned a lot, he was like

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in charge for a long time. Yeah. He transferred like

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his power, whatever, his role to General Roberto Eduardo Viola.

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And then it changed again just a few months after that.

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In December. And then in an attempt to create unity,

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increase nationalism and distract the population, he General Leopoldo Galtieri,

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the main architect behind La Guerra de las Malvinas. Oh,

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so that was him. The Falcons were, yeah. He came

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up with a plan to invade the islands called Operation Rosario.

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The military junta hoped to mobilize patriotism, but they never

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expected the UK to respond militarily, with their own military,

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to the invasion of the Falkland Islands. I really don't

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know why they thought that. I honestly don't know. But like,

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you know how talking in terms of the U.S. and

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how people are like, oh, it's a distraction. It's a distraction.

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Like these things really are. This is literally a planned distraction.

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Like they're like, OK, the people aren't happy. You know

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what will unite them? Patriotism. A war. They're hungry. They're

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being repressed. But to distract, let's make this war. Exactly.

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Before getting into the war itself, let's talk a little

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bit about Las Malvinas or the Falkland Islands. These islands

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are found in the South Atlantic and their sovereignty has

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been disputed since the 19th century. According to Argentina, Las

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Malvinas belong to them. Not only because it makes sense geographically,

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as the islands are like way, way closer to Argentina.

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They're literally like Argentina's on the left and then on

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the right, there's a little bit of ocean and then

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there are Las Malvinas. They're very close to Argentina. So

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it makes sense geographically, it does. But also because the

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islands were part of the Spanish colonial world. And after

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gaining independence from Spain, whatever belonged to Spain now belonged

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to Argentina. So in 1829, Argentina appointed Luis Vernet as

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the political and military commander of Las Malvinas. And who

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was he? You might be wondering because I was like,

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who is this? He was a wealthy merchant, son of

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a wealthy merchant, born in Hamburg. As in like Hamburg

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was like formerly Germany with some other... countries in Europe

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I don't I'm not like a European historian but I

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just yeah the Hamburgs um are a thing anyway born

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in Hamburg eventually making his way to South America and

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he is best known for having settled Las Malvinas specifically

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the East Falkland Islands because there's East and West Falklands

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um and he settled in the East Falklands well he

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settled them he created like a settlement there in 1828

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and you can find a statue of him in the

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East Falkland Islands to this day The appointment of Luis

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Vernet was challenged by the British consul in Buenos Aires,

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who then restated their claim to the islands. And what

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is their claim to the island? You might also be wondering.

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I was literally wondering that. Well, in 1690, an English captain,

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I didn't write down his name. I'm so sorry. John something.

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John Smith, probably. No, I don't know his name. John

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Smith himself. No, but an English captain for sure. Yeah, yeah.

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Made the first recorded landing on the Falklands. And unlike

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other areas where they made their first recorded landings, this

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was actually uninhabited. Then in 1764, a British settlement was

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established in West Falkland. But then they were driven away

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by the Spanish. Then they returned. Then they were driven

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away again by the Spanish. Because the Spanish were also there,

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in and out. Like both Spanish, English and French, actually

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all three were in and out of the Falklands since

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like that time period. And then the islands were kind

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of forgotten by both the Spanish and the British until

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Argentina gained independence in 1820 and then claimed sovereignty over

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the islands. In 1833, British forces took control of the Falklands.

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and forced whatever Argentine authorities who were already there, they

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forced them out. And if you look at the population

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of Las Malvinas, a name which the British reject, it

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is pretty British. 30% identify as such, as British, while

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53% of those on the island identify as Falkland Islander. Okay,

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but they're like... descendants from... Yeah, the main language is English. British. Yeah.

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The main official language of the Falklands is English. 11%

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identifies as St. Hellenians. 5% is Filipino. Okay. Okay, Filipinos. Yeah.

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And then another 5% as Chilean. And back then, in 1833,

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there was no established British community like there is today.

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It was smaller, the British community. It was smaller, but

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still there. And the population of the island was more mixed.

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There was some British, some Gauchos, which are like horse

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herders of Argentina and Uruguay of South America. Labors, settlers, sailors,

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those who had been there since the settlement of Luis Vernet,

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who settled it kind of in the name of Argentina,

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but also he spoke to the British and he kind

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of had permission for both of them. And it's like, okay,

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who was he actually working for? Point is, there was

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a lot of different groups of people on the island

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and they were uninhabited when all these groups of people

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came to be there. In 1965, the UN tried to

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get Argentina and the UK to reach an agreement on

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who owned the islands and nothing came of it. There

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was like smaller back and forth arguments between the two

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countries up until 1982. I'll also add that by 1982,

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The people of the Falklands did not recognize Argentine sovereignty

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on the islands. They consider themselves independent, but part of

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the UK. Like they didn't consider themselves at all Argentinian.

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They were like, we're our own people, but we are

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associated with the British crown. Isn't it Argentine, not Argentinian? Probably. Yeah.

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But again, my brain not working. I'm not sure, actually.

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I don't know. Anyway, point is, they didn't claim themselves

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to be from Argentina. They wanted nothing to do with Argentina. OK,

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hopefully all of this has established that the Argentinian Argentine

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claim toward Las Malvinas predated the military junta. But as

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protests against the military junta grew and their power, people

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were like, we're tired of this as that was happening. Oh,

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both are correct. Oh, thanks. OK, now we know. Yeah.

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They sought to use Las Malvinas to foster a sense

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of nationalism and thus Operación Rosario began. On April 2nd, 1982,

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Argentine forces landed on the Falkland Islands. Okay, but before that,

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like two weeks before that, there's another island that's very

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close to the Falkland Islands that's also now Argentinian. Uh,

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and they, the Argentine, Argentinian Marines had like infiltrated a,

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what looked like a fisher boat and they planted like

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the flag of Argentina on this island, this other island.

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I don't remember. I didn't write down what island it was.

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I thought I would remember and I didn't. So that

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already had like the British military kind of on edge.

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They're like, what are they doing? Then on April 2nd,

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Argentine forces landed on the Falkland Islands. And for whatever reason,

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Argentina was surprised that the British responded. And I'm not

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going to get into like the battles and all that

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and the like the military details on how it went down.

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But the war was short lived. And although it was

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short lived, it left a deep wound in Argentina. Well,

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00:14:39.570 --> 00:14:45.029
the Argentine military was like unprepared, ill-equipped, starving, right? That's

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exactly what I was about to say. They didn't have

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enough training. They faced hunger. The military plans were not

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00:14:53.299 --> 00:14:57.559
well thought out. Young soldiers, most of whom were conscripted,

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were sent to the Falklands. So on top of that,

220
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it's not like a voluntary army. It's being forced. They

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were being sent to their deaths. This was not a

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war they were going to win. It lasted two months,

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one week, and five days. 649 Argentine soldiers died. Wow.

224
00:15:15.669 --> 00:15:17.730
I don't think I had heard that number before. Or

225
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maybe I did, but I forgot. Yeah. Compared to 255

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British military personnel and three Falkland Islanders. Argentina was forced

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to surrender. And this surrender paved the way for the

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return of democracy in Argentina... as the Junta was forced out.

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They were like, no, you're done. You're done, basically. You're done.

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But Las Malvinas is something that stayed on a lot

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of minds, especially the most patriotic and nationalistic, which is

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something that tends to come out to the forefront during

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any World Cup for any country, right? Like, yeah. And

234
00:16:01.350 --> 00:16:03.440
so now this leads us to the 1986 World Cup.

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which took place four years after the War of the Falklands,

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the Falklands War. This World Cup was held in Mexico,

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where Mexico lost to Germany in the quarterfinals. They made

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00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:21.279
it to the quarterfinals. Wow. And I want to say

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00:16:21.299 --> 00:16:25.500
the U.S. didn't qualify. I believe it. I could be wrong, though.

240
00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:29.519
It could be misremembering. I believe it. Nine games were

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00:16:29.570 --> 00:16:35.370
held at El Estadio Azteca. including the now infamous Argentina

242
00:16:35.409 --> 00:16:39.470
versus England match during the quarterfinals. I will also add

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that even before the war, there was already bad blood

244
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between these two teams, England and Argentina. Really? Yeah, taking

245
00:16:47.950 --> 00:16:52.080
it back to the 1966 World Cup. This was another

246
00:16:52.179 --> 00:16:56.580
quarterfinal match. This time, England won 1-0. And there was

247
00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:59.259
a lot of contention during that game, including a red

248
00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:04.859
card for the Argentina captain, Antonio Ratin. The referee, a

249
00:17:05.059 --> 00:17:09.700
German referee, he was accused of favoring England. The England manager,

250
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:14.039
Alf Ramsey, referred to Argentina, the players of the Argentina

251
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:18.480
national team, as animals. Yay. Which, of course, outraged the

252
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:22.769
entire country. Yeah. So, yeah, there was bad blood between

253
00:17:22.789 --> 00:17:27.170
the two teams already. Back to 1986, Argentina versus England.

254
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.440
Argentina dominated the first half, making several attempts on goal

255
00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:37.589
that goalkeeper Peter Schulte managed to stop. Most goal attempts

256
00:17:37.690 --> 00:17:43.349
were done by Maradona himself, of course. Of course. Like, to...

257
00:17:43.809 --> 00:17:48.259
There has been... I mean, he's a legendary player. Obviously,

258
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:53.019
not without controversy. Uh... He did a lot of cocaine.

259
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.220
He did a lot of drugs. He beat women. Oh,

260
00:17:56.220 --> 00:17:59.289
I knew that. I didn't know about the cocaine, but

261
00:17:59.329 --> 00:18:01.650
it makes sense. You didn't know about the cocaine? I

262
00:18:01.670 --> 00:18:04.549
knew about the beating women, but not the cocaine. That's crazy.

263
00:18:04.569 --> 00:18:08.440
That makes sense. That you didn't know about. Yeah, there's

264
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:12.869
also been like allegations of abusing minors. Really? I didn't

265
00:18:12.890 --> 00:18:15.289
know that. I just learned that. I didn't know that

266
00:18:15.309 --> 00:18:16.710
myself because I was like, oh, I should do a

267
00:18:16.710 --> 00:18:18.289
Maradona episode. And then I saw that and I was like,

268
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I need to look more deeply into this. Do I

269
00:18:19.829 --> 00:18:21.589
even want to talk about this man? I mean, you

270
00:18:21.609 --> 00:18:25.759
can talk about that too. True. The duality of man.

271
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Some people suck, but they were really good at something, right? Yeah.

272
00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:37.789
But also his politics were very... He was very pro-Cuba,

273
00:18:38.250 --> 00:18:42.299
very pro-Palestine, as can happen. There are predatory men in

274
00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:48.200
all ideological spaces, unfortunately. Yeah, so I'm like considering not

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doing it, but maybe I will. Who knows? We'll see.

276
00:18:50.470 --> 00:18:55.329
I think it's... Yeah. Not something automatically that puts them

277
00:18:55.390 --> 00:18:58.809
off the table to talk about. True. I mean, we did. Well, no,

278
00:18:58.829 --> 00:18:59.910
that was a spooky tale. So I was like, we

279
00:18:59.930 --> 00:19:02.940
did a bunch of episodes on Cesar Chavez. Wait, did

280
00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:05.599
we do that? No, we did that here. Oh, yeah.

281
00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.759
We did the update. Yeah, you're right. You're right. All

282
00:19:08.779 --> 00:19:12.890
the issues that came out recently. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, point is,

283
00:19:13.029 --> 00:19:15.869
Maradona was the one making these attempts on goal again

284
00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:19.329
and again and again during that first half. Wait, is

285
00:19:19.349 --> 00:19:25.910
this a game? is this the game? Is this the

286
00:19:25.930 --> 00:19:30.750
game of the hand of God? Yes. Yes. Oh my God.

287
00:19:30.789 --> 00:19:36.470
I didn't know that. And the reason that it becomes

288
00:19:36.529 --> 00:19:39.809
political is because obviously the context I gave beforehand, but

289
00:19:39.849 --> 00:19:44.650
Marilona himself will have statements about this game that I

290
00:19:44.670 --> 00:19:49.930
will share. Um, but let me describe the game. So, um,

291
00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:53.339
argentina had more possession possession of the of the ball

292
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:55.740
in that first half they were unable to score though

293
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.680
they were unable like england's defense is legendary as well

294
00:20:00.099 --> 00:20:03.200
even like always then right because that was what yeah

295
00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:06.640
got us that's what got me guys i'm controlling my

296
00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:10.980
tears no uh I'm not getting over that game ever.

297
00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.819
I still think about that. Those last 11 minutes. Oh

298
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:17.900
my God. I don't think I've ever been more stressed

299
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:23.240
out in my life. Also at El Estadio Azteca. England's

300
00:20:23.299 --> 00:20:27.450
defense legendary. And so that first half, even though Argentina

301
00:20:27.470 --> 00:20:29.490
had the ball, most of the time they were unable

302
00:20:29.529 --> 00:20:34.049
to score. And the first half was 0-0. Then came

303
00:20:34.069 --> 00:20:37.960
the second half. Six minutes into the second half, Maradona

304
00:20:38.029 --> 00:20:42.869
made a pass to Jorge Valdano, who dribbled up to

305
00:20:43.250 --> 00:20:47.450
a left midfielder, Steve Hodge, who actually traded shirts with

306
00:20:47.490 --> 00:20:55.269
Maradona after this game. Anyway, so when Jorge Valdano attempted

307
00:20:55.309 --> 00:20:57.190
to kick the ball, Steve Hodge, like, you know, he

308
00:20:57.230 --> 00:21:00.220
tried to like kick it away. Right. So then in

309
00:21:00.259 --> 00:21:03.160
his attempt to kick it away, At the same time

310
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.390
that that was happening, Maradona had continued his run after

311
00:21:06.450 --> 00:21:11.750
passing it to Valdano. So at this point, goalkeeper, not goalkeeper, Hodge,

312
00:21:12.029 --> 00:21:14.710
the midfielder, Hodge, tried to hook the ball to keep

313
00:21:14.730 --> 00:21:18.759
it away from the Argentinian team. So the ball went

314
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:20.779
up into the air because he kicked it wrong. And

315
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:23.339
so it went up into the air towards the goal.

316
00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:27.990
And goalkeeper Peter Shilton... was there to try and punch

317
00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:32.109
the ball away, but Maradona was also there. And Shilton

318
00:21:32.250 --> 00:21:34.809
jumped up to punch the ball, right? But Maradona jumped

319
00:21:34.869 --> 00:21:38.059
up with him. And despite being eight inches shorter than

320
00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:44.160
Peter Shilton, Maradona jumped higher. Damn. Punched the ball and

321
00:21:44.180 --> 00:21:49.920
it bounced into the goal. Damn. Yes. It's epic to watch. Like,

322
00:21:50.339 --> 00:21:53.960
you should look up the Hand of God. Oh, I've

323
00:21:53.980 --> 00:21:56.109
seen it. You've seen it. It's epic. Yeah, I've seen

324
00:21:56.130 --> 00:22:01.309
the clip. It's a clear hand. No, it is clear

325
00:22:01.390 --> 00:22:05.230
as day. It clearly is, yeah. But Maradona celebrated as

326
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:07.799
if it was a legit goal. And then he told

327
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.440
his team, he's like, hey, celebrate with me or the

328
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.859
referee isn't going to allow it. He pulled like a

329
00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:16.480
reverse psychology. Yeah, like, hey, if we celebrate, they're going

330
00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:18.589
to think it's real. We have to act like we won. Yeah, yeah.

331
00:22:18.609 --> 00:22:20.880
That's crazy. And so they celebrate it. They celebrated the

332
00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:23.740
goal as if it was legitimate. Because then if they

333
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:25.519
go back on it, then the crowd will also be

334
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:29.569
so upset. Yeah. And like today, they would have gone

335
00:22:29.609 --> 00:22:32.029
back on it. Oh, yeah. Today, there's no way. Honestly,

336
00:22:32.049 --> 00:22:35.269
they should have not allowed it. Never allowed it. If

337
00:22:35.289 --> 00:22:38.630
we're being real. Yeah, if we're being real, it should

338
00:22:38.650 --> 00:22:43.509
have been disallowed. Was it amazing? Yeah. How the referee

339
00:22:43.529 --> 00:22:47.730
didn't see is beyond me. But again, there was a VAR. Right.

340
00:22:47.769 --> 00:22:51.849
He might have not looked... I don't know. With his eyes.

341
00:22:51.930 --> 00:22:55.089
With all the, like, immediately all the English players are, like,

342
00:22:55.109 --> 00:22:59.259
pointing at their hands, like, hey, hey. And he's just like, no, goal, goal.

343
00:22:59.630 --> 00:23:05.259
And so they celebrate. It was allowed. Four minutes. Four minutes.

344
00:23:05.619 --> 00:23:10.599
After that hand of God goal, Maradona scored what would

345
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:14.000
be known as the goal of the century. It was

346
00:23:14.059 --> 00:23:17.529
voted the goal of the century in 2002. Damn. Also

347
00:23:17.549 --> 00:23:19.730
epic to watch. I need to watch that. I haven't

348
00:23:19.750 --> 00:23:25.009
seen that one. It's insane. It's insane. So Maradona gets

349
00:23:25.089 --> 00:23:29.990
the ball inside of Argentina's half of the field, basically.

350
00:23:30.869 --> 00:23:35.779
He then dashes past four English players, like just like

351
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.400
fainting them. Like, nope, nope, you're not getting this ball

352
00:23:38.420 --> 00:23:41.079
from me. For a total of 60 yards, he goes

353
00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:47.519
from there, from the midfield up to... England's goal area.

354
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:50.809
It's a lot. Yeah. They just cannot keep up with him.

355
00:23:50.930 --> 00:23:56.009
He's too fast. He's too good. It's the cocaine. He

356
00:23:56.089 --> 00:23:58.569
runs up to the goal box and instead of scoring

357
00:23:58.650 --> 00:24:00.609
from where he was, which is what everyone thought he

358
00:24:00.650 --> 00:24:03.890
was going to do. So he's like running up to

359
00:24:03.930 --> 00:24:05.990
the goalie, right? The goalie thinks he's going to kick

360
00:24:06.029 --> 00:24:08.740
from where he is. The goalie runs to stop him.

361
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:13.359
He faints the goalkeeper. So he pretends to go this way.

362
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:17.740
He goes the other way. And goes past Peter Shulton,

363
00:24:17.769 --> 00:24:23.230
the goalkeeper, and scores. Damn. It's insane. Making the game 2-0.

364
00:24:24.609 --> 00:24:27.960
It's really, again, amazing to watch. Even if it was 1-0,

365
00:24:28.109 --> 00:24:31.460
they still would have won. No, of course. Well, if

366
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:33.640
he hadn't scored that, they would have tied. And maybe

367
00:24:33.740 --> 00:24:35.279
it would have gone into extra time. And who knows?

368
00:24:35.339 --> 00:24:38.160
Because Argentina was getting visibly tired towards the end of

369
00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:42.140
the game. And then in 81, Gary Leinecker, who was

370
00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:46.569
another legendary English player, he scored, making it 2-1. Oh,

371
00:24:46.589 --> 00:24:48.630
I see. But they were unable to, you know, like

372
00:24:48.670 --> 00:24:51.329
make that equalizer, to make it a 2-2, to go

373
00:24:51.369 --> 00:24:54.410
into it. It didn't happen. So it was 2-1. And

374
00:24:54.589 --> 00:24:57.509
Argentina went on to win the game and eventually win

375
00:24:57.529 --> 00:25:00.069
the World Cup. They beat Germany after that and they

376
00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:08.650
won that World Cup. And so, the hand of God.

377
00:25:10.130 --> 00:25:13.880
About the hand of God goal, Maradona said at a

378
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:17.619
post-game conference that the goal was scored with, quote, un

379
00:25:17.660 --> 00:25:21.160
poco con la cabeza de Maradona y otro poco con

380
00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:24.740
la mano de Dios, end quote. Más o menos la

381
00:25:24.759 --> 00:25:28.789
mano de Maradona. Yeah, he said a little bit with

382
00:25:28.809 --> 00:25:31.490
the head of Maradona and another little bit with the

383
00:25:31.529 --> 00:25:34.450
hand of God, which then is how the goal became

384
00:25:34.509 --> 00:25:37.390
known to be as the hand of God. Some say

385
00:25:37.410 --> 00:25:40.079
it was actually a Mexican journalist who wrote this and

386
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:43.579
that Maradona himself didn't read it. I could believe that. No, yeah,

387
00:25:43.619 --> 00:25:45.200
we have a way with words. So yeah, it could

388
00:25:45.220 --> 00:25:48.380
have been. Either way, it's known as a hand of

389
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.809
God because of that sentence. Later, in a 2019 documentary,

390
00:25:54.250 --> 00:25:56.849
Maradona would go on to say, quote, I knew it

391
00:25:56.890 --> 00:25:59.509
was my hand. It wasn't my plan, but the action

392
00:25:59.529 --> 00:26:02.250
happened so fast that the linesman didn't see me putting

393
00:26:02.289 --> 00:26:05.349
my hand in. The referee looked at me and said, go.

394
00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:09.140
It was a nice feeling. It was a nice feeling,

395
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:12.779
like some sort of symbolic revenge against the English, end quote.

396
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:15.259
And he would go on to say that he could

397
00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:18.700
have only gotten away with this against England, that it

398
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:23.160
wouldn't have worked against any other team. Maybe. Yeah. Also

399
00:26:23.180 --> 00:26:26.309
about the hand of God goal, Cesar Luis Menotti, who

400
00:26:26.329 --> 00:26:31.200
was the manager of the 1978 argentina national team that

401
00:26:31.220 --> 00:26:34.559
won the world cup wait what he was so oh

402
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:37.029
okay okay yeah he was a manager of 1978 at

403
00:26:37.230 --> 00:26:40.210
the last team who won yeah the last world cup

404
00:26:41.210 --> 00:26:44.430
um he said about the hand of god quote it

405
00:26:44.509 --> 00:26:46.910
is better much better that the goal was so unfair

406
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:51.019
so cruel because that hurt the english more end quote

407
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:55.440
oh my god they're just like rubbing it in huh

408
00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:59.640
no they really were Then about the second goal, Maradona

409
00:26:59.660 --> 00:27:01.640
would also go on to say that he could have

410
00:27:01.940 --> 00:27:05.339
only made that run against England because they are so noble.

411
00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:07.720
They're the most noble team. And the other team would

412
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:10.700
have followed him to prevent that run. And that is true. Honestly,

413
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:16.190
they are, huh? They like play very opposite of Argentina style.

414
00:27:16.369 --> 00:27:19.089
I think it's one of the reasons people are so like...

415
00:27:20.089 --> 00:27:24.250
Whenever I think any South American team plays, they play dirty.

416
00:27:24.390 --> 00:27:25.769
They do. It's just how it is. Just the style.

417
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:28.900
And then people get so mad, especially American soccer fans. Oh, yeah.

418
00:27:29.299 --> 00:27:32.500
And it's like... Well, I want to speak out of

419
00:27:32.539 --> 00:27:34.660
my ass, but there's not really a soccer culture here,

420
00:27:34.700 --> 00:27:37.680
you know? It's been growing, but it's nothing compared to

421
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.920
other places. Yeah. And it's just the fact that con

422
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:45.150
mi bol, that's how they play. And I remember we

423
00:27:45.170 --> 00:27:47.009
were talking about it with Dawn, who helps with the

424
00:27:47.029 --> 00:27:48.670
Spooky Toss. And I think me and her both were

425
00:27:48.690 --> 00:27:51.410
at the same time. That's just how South America plays. Yeah.

426
00:27:51.450 --> 00:27:54.450
Because people were getting so mad about Uruguay or Paraguay.

427
00:27:54.470 --> 00:27:58.009
I don't remember who it was anymore. I feel like

428
00:27:58.089 --> 00:28:02.029
it was Uruguay, but I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. Point is,

429
00:28:02.089 --> 00:28:04.369
that's how they play. And Maradona was right for this

430
00:28:04.430 --> 00:28:09.150
quote because any other team would have fouled him. Yeah. Anyway.

431
00:28:09.970 --> 00:28:14.700
And so also after the game, Maradona said, quote, although

432
00:28:14.740 --> 00:28:17.480
we have said before the game that football had nothing

433
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:20.619
to do with the Malvinas war, we knew they had

434
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:23.299
killed a lot of Argentine boys there, killed them like

435
00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:28.420
little birds. And this was revenge. End quote. They used

436
00:28:28.460 --> 00:28:34.720
Las Malvinas to rile themselves up against the England team

437
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.259
before the game. And then after the game, he said this.

438
00:28:37.299 --> 00:28:39.289
This is why it's a political match. If you're like,

439
00:28:39.329 --> 00:28:41.910
why are you talking about this? This is why. They

440
00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:49.089
made it. And that's just how it is. And yeah,

441
00:28:49.130 --> 00:28:53.569
that was one of the most political games ever. Argentina

442
00:28:53.589 --> 00:28:57.130
versus England 1.0. because of like everything I just mentioned.

443
00:28:57.369 --> 00:29:00.529
But especially when you hear the context of the Argentina

444
00:29:00.569 --> 00:29:03.410
team saying like, oh, well, they beat, this was revenge

445
00:29:03.890 --> 00:29:07.180
or nobody deserved this more than the England team or

446
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:10.759
like they all said different things like that. But this

447
00:29:10.779 --> 00:29:15.319
leads me to the 2026 World Cup, where again, Argentina

448
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:18.819
and England faced each other during a quarterfinal in which

449
00:29:19.019 --> 00:29:23.829
England lost. It was like time repeated itself or history

450
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:27.220
repeated itself. And I can't remember if it was before,

451
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.319
after the game, or even maybe both before and after.

452
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.039
But Argentina players were seen with signs that read Las

453
00:29:34.059 --> 00:29:37.440
Malvinas son de Argentina. Yeah, I saw them before, like

454
00:29:37.539 --> 00:29:41.369
before and during. Okay. um and so yeah if you

455
00:29:41.470 --> 00:29:43.809
saw that and you're like riley what does this even

456
00:29:43.829 --> 00:29:48.599
mean this hopefully this episode kind of explains what that

457
00:29:48.619 --> 00:29:52.630
sign meant like yeah even though it's long over the

458
00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:57.529
war is long over if that war is the deciding

459
00:29:57.569 --> 00:30:00.950
factor of who Las Malvinas belongs to. Argentina has no

460
00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:05.640
claim over Las Malvinas, right? And yet, 2026, they're still

461
00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:10.960
saying that. Yeah. So that's why it was such a

462
00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:13.319
big deal. I feel like it's also a callback to

463
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:20.980
the fascist state of things. I would agree. Because Argentina,

464
00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:31.740
yet again, finds themselves in fascism. Yes, under, uh, Millet. Yeah. Sorry,

465
00:30:31.789 --> 00:30:34.009
I was confusing. I was trying to think which Latin

466
00:30:34.069 --> 00:30:36.049
American dictator. I was going to say Millet, but I

467
00:30:36.049 --> 00:30:38.509
was waiting for you to finish. It's because I was, uh, yeah,

468
00:30:38.529 --> 00:30:41.470
I was thinking, like, gas. Well, because Fujimoto has, uh,

469
00:30:41.549 --> 00:30:47.930
spread again. I know, it's too much. Fujimoto 2.0, uh, cast, uh,

470
00:30:48.410 --> 00:30:51.210
that's all I can remember. There's more. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

471
00:30:51.549 --> 00:30:56.910
The OG this round, uh, of fascism. Whoever just got, uh,

472
00:30:57.529 --> 00:31:05.480
Elected in Colombia. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I feel

473
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:08.400
that it is a, if not a dog whistle, just

474
00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:13.660
a big glaring red flag saying, hey, remember the dictatorship?

475
00:31:14.420 --> 00:31:17.819
Let's return to that because that's when Las Malvinas, that's

476
00:31:17.859 --> 00:31:19.519
when it was ours or that's when we tried to

477
00:31:19.539 --> 00:31:21.539
make it ours last. You know what I mean? Yeah.

478
00:31:21.619 --> 00:31:24.599
And it really goes to show to me the, how

479
00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:28.930
would I describe it? The thin... red line, I don't know,

480
00:31:29.009 --> 00:31:35.029
but the thin line, the connection between patriotism and fascism, right? Yes. Nationalism,

481
00:31:35.089 --> 00:31:38.630
like all of it. Um, and, and then throw football

482
00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:42.980
in there. Yeah. Yeah. It's all, uh, yeah, it's all related.

483
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:45.619
It's all part of a, I feel like Charlie from, uh,

484
00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:47.559
it's always sending fun stuff, but with the big board

485
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:50.640
behind him, all the lines connecting. Yeah. It's like one line. No,

486
00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:52.849
for sure. One, one little thing on the board will

487
00:31:52.890 --> 00:31:55.450
be fascism. One other thing will be soccer. Another thing

488
00:31:55.470 --> 00:31:58.829
will be Argentina, Las Malvinas. And then the, dictatorship and

489
00:31:58.849 --> 00:32:05.470
now melee yeah yes no exactly um also i know

490
00:32:05.569 --> 00:32:08.210
we talked about it last episode argentina was under like

491
00:32:08.250 --> 00:32:12.029
a lot of like public scrutiny yes during the world

492
00:32:12.049 --> 00:32:14.910
cup yeah but this tends to happen almost every world

493
00:32:14.930 --> 00:32:17.650
cup because frisbee music argentina fans are just like the

494
00:32:17.690 --> 00:32:22.559
loudest about being racist oh oh Let's not forget they're

495
00:32:22.579 --> 00:32:24.640
not the only ones. No, and I think that's the

496
00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:27.240
thing that bothered me the most when it was happening. Obviously,

497
00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:30.609
I joined the hate train, but the hate train has

498
00:32:30.630 --> 00:32:34.589
always been there for other Latin American countries, right? It's normal. Yeah,

499
00:32:34.609 --> 00:32:36.670
because we know how they are. And yet we are

500
00:32:36.730 --> 00:32:39.029
the same in all the countries, right? So it's kind

501
00:32:39.049 --> 00:32:43.390
of like silly. Argentina is racist because Latin America is racist. Right.

502
00:32:43.509 --> 00:32:44.950
And I think the thing that bothers me is like,

503
00:32:45.470 --> 00:32:47.269
it's like when you're with your family, you're making fun

504
00:32:47.289 --> 00:32:49.329
of your cousin, but then some random person makes fun

505
00:32:49.349 --> 00:32:50.990
of your cousin. You're like, bitch, only I can make

506
00:32:51.019 --> 00:32:53.200
fun of my cousin. Yeah. And then all of a

507
00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:55.799
sudden we saw people from the United States thinking that

508
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:02.970
they pot me kettle, bitch. What do you mean? Yeah.

509
00:33:03.369 --> 00:33:07.970
So that's what bothered me about that whole discourse. Exactly. So, yeah,

510
00:33:07.990 --> 00:33:09.670
I just like I was like, let me just also

511
00:33:09.809 --> 00:33:12.880
add that. Yes, we mentioned Argentina and their anti-blackness, but

512
00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:18.289
that's not to say. excuse everyone else of their anti-blackness

513
00:33:18.390 --> 00:33:21.369
no argentina is anti-black because all of latin america is

514
00:33:21.410 --> 00:33:24.490
anti-black because the world is anti-black right uh that doesn't

515
00:33:24.529 --> 00:33:27.769
mean that black people are not in these countries right

516
00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:31.230
they of course have always been and uh what brought

517
00:33:31.250 --> 00:33:35.490
them there well different things right right colonialism the slave

518
00:33:35.529 --> 00:33:41.009
trade um so yeah we're we're not trying to excuse

519
00:33:41.029 --> 00:33:44.470
the rest of latin america uh by calling out or

520
00:33:44.650 --> 00:33:48.269
talking about argentina's racism which for some reason is always

521
00:33:48.329 --> 00:33:51.569
at the forefront of world cup games right and they

522
00:33:51.630 --> 00:33:55.009
are very blatant about it yeah yeah but even so

523
00:33:55.349 --> 00:33:58.430
mexico had like a few viral clips making fun of

524
00:33:58.509 --> 00:34:04.950
asian fans uh korean fans making like racist gestures uh They, however,

525
00:34:05.009 --> 00:34:07.960
do face accountability, at least because that guy who did that,

526
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:10.059
he was found and he was fired from his job.

527
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.840
And I don't know that that happens in Argentina. I

528
00:34:15.860 --> 00:34:19.400
don't think so. I don't know. I don't know. And

529
00:34:19.420 --> 00:34:22.119
that's not to say because then, you know, people, for

530
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.010
whatever reason, people started saying that about Argentina and then

531
00:34:25.030 --> 00:34:26.929
it just kind of got blown up. And then people

532
00:34:26.969 --> 00:34:29.389
were starting to say like, oh, everyone is like that.

533
00:34:30.230 --> 00:34:32.860
And of course not. Of course not. We've talked about

534
00:34:32.909 --> 00:34:38.960
leftist movements, Las Madres de la Plaza de Mayo, Las Abuelas. Like, obviously,

535
00:34:38.980 --> 00:34:42.900
there's always been, not everyone is right-winged and racist and

536
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:46.449
all that. And that's like, if you say that about Argentina,

537
00:34:46.469 --> 00:34:48.030
you could very much say that about the U.S. and

538
00:34:48.070 --> 00:34:50.369
people get offended. Oh, yeah. Like when you talk about

539
00:34:50.409 --> 00:34:53.510
the South. Not all of us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and

540
00:34:53.570 --> 00:34:55.929
it's like, okay, well, if you're saying it about one place,

541
00:34:55.949 --> 00:34:58.710
why doesn't it apply to this fucking shithole of a country?

542
00:34:58.789 --> 00:35:00.969
It's like the old famous saying of you point one

543
00:35:01.010 --> 00:35:06.159
finger and there's three fingers pointing back at you. Exactly, exactly.

544
00:35:06.619 --> 00:35:08.840
But yeah, that was just a little bit of context

545
00:35:08.900 --> 00:35:11.219
about Las Malvinas. I'm kind of glad we talked about

546
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:15.420
this because I was kind of missing the soccer viewer. Oh, yeah, yeah.

547
00:35:16.820 --> 00:35:21.900
I'm getting my soccer... fixed through Liga MX and I've

548
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:26.099
thought about watching some other the women's no no no

549
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:29.340
well the women's World Cup hasn't happened yet it's starting

550
00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:32.710
next year right well yeah the World Cup is next

551
00:35:32.750 --> 00:35:36.889
year and they're qualifying they're doing qualifying matches still Mexico's

552
00:35:36.929 --> 00:35:43.690
is in October the Philippines world the Philippines national women's

553
00:35:43.710 --> 00:35:47.809
team qualified already the men's did not qualify for the

554
00:35:47.829 --> 00:35:52.599
World Cup so it's exciting Yeah, women. The U.S., I think,

555
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:55.699
I don't know, actually. They're usually really good, I think. No, no, no. Yeah,

556
00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:57.639
I was trying to remember if their match has happened

557
00:35:57.699 --> 00:36:01.380
or if it has yet to happen. I don't remember.

558
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:05.019
Because like the World Cup, the Men's World Cup, I

559
00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:11.760
will also be rooting only for Mexico. But yeah, anything

560
00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:15.670
else to add before we end this? Um, no, just

561
00:36:15.710 --> 00:36:22.119
that we are back, baby. We are back. And, um, yeah.

562
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:25.260
All right. Well, in that case, I hope that the

563
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:32.250
context of Las Malvinas is one less story unknown for you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

564
00:36:34.650 --> 00:36:38.170
Historias Unknown is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by

565
00:36:38.210 --> 00:36:41.349
Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources

566
00:36:41.389 --> 00:36:44.840
for every episode at historiasunknown.com and in our show notes.

567
00:36:45.550 --> 00:36:47.059
Creating the podcast is a lot of work, so if

568
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:49.119
you want to help us out financially, you can do

569
00:36:49.179 --> 00:36:54.239
so by supporting us on Patreon at patreon.com slash historiasunknownpodcast.