The Shady History of Nestle in Latin America Part Two

0:09 Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is Estoia's Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin America. Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption, and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance, power and community. What if I said that like Sidney Sunni and Genozie Esig. Oh, No, parents pasted on their jeans. That's the craziest thing I heard. Not even what was that? Like how she said it is what I'm foxing. Yeah, both were insane, parents passed on their chains. Okay on, Yes, today is all about corruption because we're continuing with Neslie. This is part two of that and it's a lot so yeah, this is a little less story like and a little more like Neslie did this than Neslie did this and this FYI and it's all terrible of course, so yeah, let's just jip into it. Oh well, before we jump into it, I did want to say again part one we just summed up, like Nestli, how they got to where they were and then the first infant formula scandal that was supposedly change things and the way Nesli was doing it and they're like better now, but really they're not, and that's what we're talking about today, and along with the other things that make them terrible, like modern slavery and keeping certain regions poor in Mexico. So yeah, all right, let's get into it, Okay. So a study by John

1:40 Hopkins that began in twenty sixteen in Peru found that despite not being legally allowed because of the changes from the formula scandal that we talked about in part one, Nesley has continued to do the same things, basically promote their products to low income areas, but in places that they're not the safest to be used. Because again, this isn't about breastfeeding is better than formula. This is about in some cases, formula just simply cannot be used. Right. So in the Lima suburb of Villa, and it was discovered that doctors were encouraging mothers to stop breastfeeding and they gave them free formula samples. That's crazy to be stopping them from breastfeeding, like they and they were already doing it, Yeah, like successfully, might I add I understand like if someone is having trouble doing it and they're like, oh, just to formula instead, But like, of course, that's wild.

2:41 I don't know. No, I agree. The mothers that were targeted by these doctors, that were encouraged by these doctors to stop breastfeeding, were ten times more likely to give up on breastfeeding because like the doctor's telling you to do it, Like why not? You know, you're supposed to trust them emphasisn't supposed to? Yeah. Nestli of course deny doing this dating quote and peru. Nesli fully compliance with the provisions of local legislation, which allows sharing evidence based scientific information includes exclusively with healthcare professionals, including lending support to their continuing medical implication. We do not distribute samples of products intended for babies between zero to twenty four months, either to healthcare professionals or to mothers end quote. Oh wow, use yeah, they straight up to.

3:31 The study found that these doctors were given samples and brochures by Nesley to hand out to these mothers. Don't you think that no supplement medical companies or this kind of thing, they shouldn't be allowed to sell their products to. I don't know, I mean, I guess they should. They have to be stocked at hospitals just in case, but there should be no salesperson there, like even in medicine like that whole pharmacycles is the same theme. Like part of the. Opioid epidemic was also very similar, very shady practices. And that's like, that's a whole other topic that can be its own like book, like and actually there has been a book.

4:16 Yeah didn't you read a book about it? Or no, I did, but yeah, but Neslie was doing exactly this. They were even offering doctors incentives to give these samples to mothers. That shouldn't be allowed. No, it shouldn't at all. These incentives included free conferences and trips, I mean, the same shit as the pharmaceutical reps and whatever like. It should not be allowed. No, no. This study included two hundred and fourteen mothers from this region from twenty sixteen to twenty seventeen, so one year, these mothers were given vouchers for more formula and they were told that formula was necessary for the child's development and to stop inconsolable crime.

5:02 Yeah. So if someone is telling you, as a as a new mom or just a mom in general of a newborn, that this is going to stop your baby's crying, of course. You're going to do it. It's such a vulnerable time. And that's also why, uh, there's like a pipeline you know, from anti vacs quote crunchy vanilla moms whatever they call them, granola not vanilla granola, sorry, yeah, granola, crunchy vanilla mom stereotype into the right wing because then it leads you to eugenics. It leads you to think that you can you know, by choosing the best products, the most natural quote natural products. But yeah, it leads you to these dangerous beliefs, and it's a slip, very slow. Yeah, I mean, and just like this as an example of a company I guess being eugenics because it led to the deaths of brown babies, imparished you know, families and their children at the least make them more sick, right, which does lead to the death right because the vouchers were given for a little bit, but then they're not given and then what are these what are they supposed to do when the vouchers are gone except keep buying formula that they can't afford, and then they can't feed their babies because they can no longer breastfeed even though they were doing it.

6:28 Like that's so insidious. Yeah. Yeah, it's literally the same thing that they were doing back during the killing baby scandal. Yeah, formula scandal. But and so this was you said around twenty sixteen, right, or at least twenty sixteen to twenty seventeen that the study was done in this suburb of Peru. And there's no number on if deaths occurred. Oh, I see, but the next step, if nothing is done, it would have led to that. Yeah, yes, like it did in the past. Yes, yes. And Jessica Rothstein from the Bloomberg School of Public Health International Department and one of the lead researchers for the study.

7:11 So the following about this quot. As markets in wealthy countries have begun to stagnate, the marketing a formula in poor countries is becoming more aggressive. It's particularly troubling that the formula companies are pushing the products and communities that lack the funds to pay for them. We can say with the high degree of confidence that the marketing to providers who serve via TV is gener realizable to other healthcare settings and Peru and probably to other developing countries. Basically, if they're doing it here, they're doing it in other places wherever they can get away with it, and like, yeah, maybe death hasn't happened infant deaths, but if it's not stopping, it will happen. And of course this isn't all honestley as the doctors are willing to receive incentives too. There has been a push for improving laws to prevent this type of stuff in Puru that's still ongoing. It's not resolved yet. There's still like like people like the percent I just mentioned her quo are trying to work to stop this. But again that's not all that's we're gonna keep going with this with Neslei and their formula scandals, it doesn't too. There was a study done that analyzed over seventy Nestley baby milk products in forty different countries, and I found that Nesli was not following its own nutritional advice because they were adding sucross, a type of sugar, to formulas, and they were marketing their formula as free

8:44 of sucross and good for babies, good health. Those are other words, good babies, good health. And they were doing this in some places, not all, adding the suc gross to formula. And these were of course places like Brazil, like you know, like thirtable, like cheaper to make or why you know, I don't know. I don't know, I really I tried to find why they were doing this, and it's I don't know. They were just in adding sugar and then lying about the sugar content. Did a Sunday don't say that anymore because of Chichetti too on, So I was just gonna take CHICHERI ruined that for us. Yeah, just like I can't say stop. They were also marketing their formulas as being healthier because it was free from vanilla flavoring, but it was not and had vanilla flavoring it.

9:34 Like this is just a little pointless thing, right. And fifty years after the shady infant formula practices of the nineteen seventies were brought to light, a different organization called the Public Eye, who basically just works in calling out Nesli and doing like studies to like reveal the truth behind Neslie. I want to work there. They're doing the Lord's work. They were a big source for this. I shot them out a little bit later again because again huge source, so Public Eye a non profit organization. They revealed that Nesli is still up to no good. Fifty years after their scandal, Right, Nesli was discovered to be adding more. This is aside from the already formula things I mentioned in but in twenty sixteen this is another situ, another issue or whatever wrongdoing. So yes, another yeah, Nesli was discovered to add more sugar to their baby products in the global South than in the Western market, i e. Europe and the US so Sere, Lac and Niedo, which are huge in Latin America, Africa, Asia, they have more sugar there. They don't have more sugar everywhere else. In the Philippines it contains seven point three grams of additional sugar proportion.

10:49 It's kind of a lot. Yes. In Panama it has five point three grams more proportion, Nicaragua four point seven grams proportion is additional sugar, Mexico one point eight grams. And meanwhile, in Europe there is no added sugar content. I don't understand why, right, it doesn't make any sense. And to critics of Nestli, it seems that the only reason this is being done is to hook brown and black babies to sugar. Okay, that's what my thinking was too, But I'm like, why so that they are used to the sugar it taste and they keep buying their products because that's not afriget. Nesli also has chocolate, a bunch of candy, ch chocolate milk.

11:39 Gonna say choko mean yeah, they have the chiko menia, they have the chocolate milk nest quick right. Yeah. But that's the reason that critics of Nesli think that it's being done to get that palette that makes sense hooked early it done. Some reminds me of the Coca Cola when they introduce the their soda to the indigenous communities in Mexico. Yeah. Susama d Amidez, Associate Professor of Public health Communication at the University of California, stated, quote, there's no possible or nutritional reason that sugar needs to be added to food for babies and young children. Adding sugar and foods for babies and young children contribute to their poor health as they develop, including dental cavities and obesity, both of which are incredibly difficult to change once they have set in.

12:27 More insidiously, sugar is highly addictive, so consuming foods with added sugars in early childhood trains kids palets to prefer sweetened foods. This leads to a lifelong prefence for such foods, exacerbating the negative health impacts of such foods. It's clear why the industry would want to do this, as the addictive quality of sugar and the development of sweet preferring palettes insures they have customers for life. Life. They're literally hooking babies on sugar end quote. Interesting. I have heard some conflicting things about sugar actually being addictive or not. I don't know.

13:07 I don't know like the science, I guess, like the most up to date science. I know it's like conflicting whether it's actually addictive or not. But I mean, why have other than you know, corporate greed. There is no need for this extra like added sugar, especially young Like we're talking like new more young babies who don't even need food, right, And there's a certain age I think to win under where like extra sugar is like not recommended by a lot of health organizations, and it does fuck kids teeth up for life, like lifelong. He does. All those silver tooth kids that were venices, that's why.

13:50 And if you guess they were still Neslie was still using shady marketing practices to push clac Ano. You would be right. These products are promoted in low and middle income country as not only healthy, but the key to supporting young children's development. Does that not sound familiar? That's like exactly what they've been doing. On top of that, they use influencers and celebrities from these markets to promote Nilo and cere Lac and Guatemala. They partner with Billy Savedra known as Billy the Diamond, a Regaton artist. I don't know who he is, but neither apparently he's a Regaton artist. He has like half a million followers on Instagram. He was promoting a real he filmed with his daughter. In the video, she's just like twirling down the stairs or something.

14:31 And the caption is miran Ala Sarai Perro gra Ideo Istabian Look, Mason Nios CenTra America, son Loosque Mantien and Flertesusoa Proos That was a caption to this. Nons Like this video doesn't even like you would think she'd be like drinking the drink, like yeah, it's like acting like it's milk. Yeah yeah, and yeah, like I said, he has half a million followers all in that same market like Guatemala, and like, I know that's the way the world has gone where influencers are used to market because it's like a successful way to market things. And of course these influencers are parents too, and so when they are pushing these products, it's regarded as trustworthy, especially in like communities like Latin America, where I don't want to say, they've like like it's easier for like, I mean, how many times have we gotten a message from our mom saying, hey, does this work? And it's like some random thing that someone mentioned. Yeah, influencers on alive exactly, they know these markets are lucrative and there are also a line about the sugar content and the things that are selling into these markets. But it's similar here like parenting influencers or mom bommy influencers, And like the products that they push, they're not always safe, Like I'm thinking of like products that have been recalled and then people still use them,

16:04 and you know, no one, not a lot of people keep up to date with recalls, especially now that certain organizations that do recall like safety product safety kind of stuff are being like disbanded and defunded. Now there's even less information about that out there then. Yeah, so it's like similar where they're like it's an issue. Yeah, and it's an issue. It's a larger issue about exploding children. But I guess we won't go there because we're talking about Nestlie one hundred percent one hundred percent you know, you know we agree on that. Yeah, Currently, Serre lac Anito makes these products make Nestli sol much money two point five billion like a year at least, if not more now because this figures from like twenty twenty two.

16:49 And yeah, these are branded as helping children live healthier lives. They have extra vitamins, minerals and other micronutrients and also an insane amount of sugar, like and of course like need those other things. And I'm not one to demonize sugar. It has room in our lives. For me, it's not something I'm like, no sugar ever, but after a certain age, because that's what my doctor said, right. And again, this is why these practices of Nesli are so shady, because they're pushing these products and it's like the issue here is why are they adding way more sugar in the global South than in Europe. That doesn't make sense. Nestley claims it's because these ingredients in these markets are different and that's where they're made.

17:35 That doesn't make sense. That doesn't make sense to me at all, because, yeah, these products have zero added sugar in Germany, Switzerland, the UK, even in the US it has way less than like the Philippines. But yeah, it's a double standard. Like it may seem not like a big deal maybe to some people, but many experts like Karen Hoffman, a pediatrician and the professor of public health at the University of wit Witwater Sprand in Johannesburg. I hope I said that, right, I how to say it? I probably did it somewhere in Johannesburg. Anyway, she said, quote it's a form of colonization.

18:15 End quote. Oh oh oh, and you know what. The professional educate lady said it. So Also the WHO, the World Health Organization shares similar views about how before a certain first they're a little extreme or they don't recommend like any sugar. You're like okay, usually like okay, like she was fine, yeah, but before a certain age, I think they say like at least at the very at least three and under like no sugar, at least no added sugar and obviously like natural sugar like fruits, no one's sugar. Yeah, these are added sugars, which is a whole different thing. This study stresses the need for urgent action to reshape the food environment for children, said oh, the director of the WHO department, doctor Francesco Branca, eliminating They still him eliminated added sugars from food products for young children would be an important way to implement early prevention, early prevention of Obi city. And like, my thing with kids is like cavities, because that shit fucks you up for life. And yeah that WHO has also called for a ban on added sugars and sweeteners for products for babies and children under the age of three. The investigation by Public I also which was now surprised to me, found that Nesley uses aggressive marketing to promote needo and set and LAC in the Global South, which was prohibited in nineteen eighty one after the whole infant formula in the thirty killing situation. Yes, this practice was banned. This aggressive marketing of infant formula was banned, but they're still

19:48 doing it because this ban, it was supposed to ban all promotion of infant formula in order to protect breastfeeding in these areas, where again formula is not the best choice because of the water not being accessible. But the ban also applied to formulas for older babies and kids, which includes needle and Sedlak because it's not a strait up of formula, it's a supplement. But that ban includes those two products, and they're still aggressively marketing these products like again using influencers. Also, they have videos like reels and stuff short form videos where they have a person talking about these products with a white coin on, and that gives a percession again the perception of a doctor, just like their milk made situation where they would have them wear nurse such like they're doing the same thing, but now like a video by internet instead of the hospitals.

20:44 And the person on video might not even be a full like pediatrician, a nutritionists not an actor, but a nutritionist. But sometimes nutritionists certifications are not full schooling. So how do we know they're not actors? Oh, they're also they could be. We don't know, I feel like they're actors. They could be. You're right, Yeah, most of the time, they're definitely not pediatricians. But yeah, they're giving they're recording this video with the white coat on to again not perceived but give off like authority. Yeah. And they're talking about the benefits of these products obviously, and again a white coat conveys that this is the opinion of someone, the opinion of this person.

21:26 Who an expert. Yeah, yes, thank you. Wow. And again that's against who guidelines, right, Okay, And that's an overview of how they're still basically doing the infants in formula currently to this day in Latin America. Like they never stopped, they just changed it a little bit, yes, to make it modern. Yeah, on the internet modern, Yeah, using influencers. Yeah. And like I said in the beginning of part one, this does not stop at Formula. Coca Cola is under Nesli. We have two episodes on Coca Cola being corrupt in Latin America. You know, you discussed the use of paramilitary forces to kill union leaders in Colombia, Gatemala. I did the one about Mexico and their shady marketing practices there and how they steal water. And that's still Nestli because Coca Cola falls under NESTLEI. Right, Nestle is the big umbrella company. Yes, yes, but yeah, it doesn't end there.

22:29 So now Mexico and coffee and Nesli and how Neslie's destroyed God to forgot that they have coffee. Also they have everything, They have their grubby little hands and everything. Yeah. First, let's talk about the region a little bit, because I know we had a coffee episode, but I talked about Central America. Yeah. Yeah, But in Mexico, coffee is grown in Chiapas, and while Chiapas is the largest producer of coffee in all of Mexico, it's also one of the poorest areas. There are around one hundred and eighty thousand coffee farmers, which produce forty percent of the coffee in all of Mexico.

23:09 Wow. Yes, And internationally, Mexico is the eighth largest producer of coffee. And the region of Soko Nusco in southern Chiapas was known for its high quality Arabica coffee and this region has the ideal climate and soil conditions for Arabica coffee. And Arabica is also great for the biodiversity of any region because it's more organic. The plants last fifty years and they provide so much shade. But this is where Nesli comes in and destroys that. So Nesle's Nest Cafe, the instant coffee is the most popular coffee in this market, like Latin America. I'm sure, I don't know how popular.

23:56 It's probably pretty popular here in the US too, because of I don't know how many people. I don't drink it. This cafe is an instant coffee that aurm mused, Bay right, yes, yeah, and that's something our grandma has. I'm telling you it's it's highly popular. Side note, it's also called El cafre or the. Poor man's coffee. Hmmm. Interesting. So this Nest Cafe instant coffee is made with Robusta coffee, not Arabica coffee. So Nestle lobby to the Mexican government to promote the cultivation of coffee of the coffee they need Robusta and this coffee thrives better without shade, oh I see. And so they had to destroy a lot of farms that had the Arabica shady trees to make the Robusta coffee. So NESTLEI launched their Nest Cafe plan in twenty ten and Mexico, and thanks to that program, Mexico is Nestle's third biggest coffee supplier.

24:52 Damn. Yeah. So through this plan, Nesli promised to invest two hundred million Swiss francs within ten years, which would quote create value across the coffee supply chain from farmers to consumers to us and so supposedly the farmers were also going to get like a cut of the profit more money. Yeah. So they went to local farmers, most of which are small farms. That's why there's so many different coffee farmers. They're just a bunch of little farms. Even the biggest farms are fifteen Oh my god, what I didn't write this word down. You know, when it's acres, but there's like an age in front of it, like hectors or hectory. I don't know how to pronounce it.

25:32 Yeah, that's what it is, all right. Moving on, So, most of them had Arabica coffee, and so with the nestcafet planned, they were going to go from Arabica to robust the coffee to make the next cafe coffee that NESTLEI needs. And so they were going to do a one year training school for these farmers. In the school, they learned business things management had to improve their harvest. Nestley Agronomius would also come into their farms and give advice on converting or how to improve the farm. Nesley gave these farmers robustus seedlings to get them started, and they did this for three years where there was this school going. They would come and look these farms. These farmers had to convert their farms to comply with four Sea requirements.

26:18 Do you know what that is? Okay? Well, four C is an independent stakeholder and this is straight from the four Sea page. For C is an independent stakeholder driven internationally recognized sustainability standard for the entire coffee and cocoa sector, aiming at anchoring sustainability and coffee and cocoa supply chains. Independent third party on its insure compliance with sustainability criteria for coffee and cocoa production and processing from the economic, social, and environmental dimensions to establish credible and traceable sustainable coffee and. Cocoa supply chains. Basically like it's supposed to make coffee cultivation more ethical in all ways as the whole Because wow, that was long, I'm not reading all that anyway. Nesli promised these farmers that they participated in their Nescafe School did the conversion to comply with four C. Followed Neslei teachings that these farmers were double or triple their income, and this made sense to farmers. This is already a low income area, right, and they're being sold these promises that sound very appealing.

27:26 So yeah, I don't at all blame them for trying to do this. Yeah, and so. Robusta yields more products than Arabica, and so they were like, yeah, it's going to be there's more, the yields are going to be bigger, so you're going to get more money. Of course, the program sounded fantastic if Nesli had kept their promise. Of course they didn't. Yeah, no surprise. There After three years, their visits and advice to local farmers came to an abrupt and by this point two hundred farmers in this region had done the conversion to four CE and robust to coffee and participated in Nescafez or in Nesle's Nescafez School program, which again Nesli promised they would profit if they did this, and this costs a lot of money to do these conversions, and of course it's like again, no surprise, Nesli didn't keep their end of the deal. They got their double yield of robust to coffee, but they didn't pay these farmers anywhere near a living wage for their work. Nesli pays twenty six pesos per kilo or one thirty nine US dollars per kilo.

28:32 That's barely enough to cover production costs, let alone pay farm workers. Eduardloca Marena, who owns one of the larger farms in the area, which again is not a big farm compared to these big like farms we have here in the US, like, these are very small farms. A lot of them aren't even like they don't have farm workers. It's like the family doing it all. So eduardoca Marena was a graduate of the first generation of the Nescafez school and production costs him thirty pestls perkillo. So Nesli again pays twenty six bessels per kilo, and for him to do this it costs him more. He was losing money, yes, exactly. One of the courses he took at the school was called quote joint Value Creation in Coffee Company in the coffee company, and in it, Nesli promised to give them a living wage. And to pay more for these yields that would double. But Eduardo on his fellow castmates and the rest of the two hundred coffee farmers haven't seen any of that said profit. Wow. Elmer Morales, a second generation nes Cafe plan farmer, has a similar story, but it's worse because, on top of being paid so little for the coffee by Nescafe, nest Cafe also put his picture and his mom's picture on the instant coffee. Really and the picture? Yes, and the picture is accompanied by a statement that says drinking this coffee is helping farmers in Chiapas live a better life.

29:57 When it's not. No, they're being underpaid severely. Yes, the audacity to use their pictures too, Yeah, bullshit. In January twenty twenty four, Eduardo Elmer and other farmers got together. They spoke about their experiences with Neslie to the media. They also wrote a letter of protest, and in it they stated that the price of twenty six pistols is not enough and they demanded thirty five vessels per kilo, which is not a lot. It's not an extravagant ask like it cost them thirty pessels to produce this coffee for Nesli. Yeah, a living wage would have been fifty pessels per kilo, but they're not asking for that.

30:39 They were asking for thirty five a little bit more. When Nesli responded to the protest letter, they said that they were not responsible for the low pay and that the farmers needed to talk to the local intermediary companies. This is a. Bullshit that the fucking big conglomerate bullshit fucking corporations use to get away with their bullshits, the same fucking shit that Coca Cola did, because they were like, oh, we're not responsible for the violence against the union. Organizers. It was our third. Party whatever the fun, Yes, exactly, Like no, you you're responsible for the behavior or the people that are partnering with you because you're also pressuring them to make money.

31:25 Yeah, and you're also to blame, Like. You can't just absolve yourself of everything, which these fucking companies do and what the United States allows. Yes, so yeah, Nestli told them it was the innimated intermediary companies who were in charge of this bullshit. Yeah, So the farmers did meet with these intermediary companies on February fifth, four The farmers expressive frustrations to the head of CASEMX, one of the intermediary companies, and so here Elmer said, quote at the nescafes, they taught us to double production, then they dropped us. They taught its values, principles and ethics. What happened to those values, principles and ethics? Where are they?

32:08 Capitalism has none? No, it doesn't No. The head of SMX listened to all the farmers with patients, and then at the end he told them what they all suspected. He didn't have control over the prices they were set by Nestli. Of course they are. Yes, yes, So then the farmers all met again after this, at this regular meeting that they have every two or three bunds, they expressed the same frustrations the low prices for their coffee. And here one of the other farmers, seventy seven year old Oktaviano Morale Salas, stated that it's no longer possible to make a living from coffee one because of these low prices, but also they can't afford to pay their farm workers, so there would be farm workers are all going to the USA. In their municipality alone, one hundred and eighty people had already migrated to the US, so goo will toll our soil. Now we're up to our next in it. Nestlei siphons all the money while we live in poverty. Buck Nestlie, no one hundred percent new sticker. All the homies say, Nestlie, oh wait, we said that already last episode.

33:14 Yeah. God. So, on top of the already low price that they give these farmers for the Robusta coffee, sometimes some of these intermediary companies low bottom even more, citing that it's low quality. It's not even worth the low price. Nestli is pain but they do this randomly. The coffee is fine, and they're like, nope, it's low quality, just so that they can take more of the cut themselves too, like they're the issue too. But overall still it's Nestlei. The bit is the biggest issue. Yeah. And in theory, these farmers could sell to someone else, but because they made the switch from Robusta or from Arabica to Robusta, Nesti is the only one who buys Robusta because they needed for the instant coffee. No one else buys it in this area, and so they're like trapped by Nestle and this was intentional. It reminds me of Monsanto too, one hundred percent with their stupid seeds and how now, yeah, it's the same story. There's a reason Mexico kicked Monsanto out, like well, the corns and they're trying to I know, I know, one.

34:16 Of their biggest markets. Yeah. There's also a really good documentary called CoA that focuses on the horrible working life of these coffee workers and unfortunately also full of child labor, which I didn't focus too much on, but that documentary you should, you should check it out. What is the documentary from two dozen? Oh I didn't write down the year. It's not that old though, it's pretty recent. So these farmers protested blocking the road to where the intermediary companies are located. They held science that read empresas in Ettica and aias another sign that said presio housto, presio housto, like they're demanding a fair price, yes, and they deserve it. And this protest they also burned nescafe coffee sacks and robust us savelings.

35:07 And you know, I love when things are being burned at a protest. Yes, yes, and at first the protests seemed to get things moving. A local government representative said that they were meet with Neslie Mexico. But when the meeting came, Nesli didn't show up and it was all like a joke to Nesli basically, at least that's what it felt like to the farmers and the local government was trying to do something. What else would it. Feel like if they don't show up? Yeah, and instead they sent like an email response to the demands and to the price demands, and it was like a simple no, they're not going to meet these demands. And they released the following statement. Coffee farmers should earn a sufficient income to maintain a decent standardive living for them and their families. However, in a coffee market contention on supply and demand, there are no easy solutions to ensure that this is achieved.

36:00 We do not have a price minimum guarantee, but we do offer the most competitive prices in an open marketplace. Buck your open marketplace. You don't bitch, they're the only marketplace. Okay, you're talking about also supplying demand. You are the market, You are the supply and demand. It's just a bunch of bullshit. To try to wash your hands off of it when they are responsible and they should be paying fair wages. But no, everything is about the the money and the final dollar you make or whatever and paying your fucking piece of shit CEOs and okay, so they're mean, like the market. If the market is bad, we then we had to pay less. But the market has been growing for this the like, yeah, it's not true, but I fucking hate them, all right, Nestlie, if I see you, it's on site, all of you on site, on site, Okay.

36:52 And of course if you look at Nesli's website today, they have statements like Nestlie and is strongly committed to the responsible and sustainable sources of coffee and Mexico. I believe that, No, don't believe them, and that they have had a positive impact on the Mexican coffee and the development of Mexican growing coffee growing communities. You have destroyed the coffee community in Chiampas, you dumb bitches. Yeah, it reminds you that meme where people at right over it. It's like this lady smoking from American Horstory and she's like, you dumb bitch, there is no so here. It's like you dumb bitch. There is no more coffee growing communities in Mexico because you're destroying them. Yeah, I should make that meme. Yeah you should again.

37:34 Meanwhile, over so there staming again is that they're making the communities better. Right. Meanwhile, over half the coffee farmers live in property and have had to give up their forms. Yeah, and that's again just a very brief bit on coffee, Nesli and Mexico. But I also have to talk about Brazil. So Public Eye has been an amazing source for these episodiodes, and that's where I'm getting all this from. There. Again, they work in like just showing trying to show how corrub Nesli is. And so they released this in June twenty twenty five titled Brazilian workers Enslaved by Nesli's Coffee supplies. When in twenty twenty five, Yeah, June twenty twenty five is when this case months, Yes, last month at the time of recording. And if you remember from the Coffee episode, which was like almost three years ago, it's our second episode.

38:26 I want to say, or was it the first the first episode? I think it might be the it might be the first. I mentioned about coffee workers being enslaved, but by Starbucks. But Neslie does it too, of course, I'm sure they all do it. Oh yeah, Nesli promises to source ethical coffee and that they have zero tolerance for modern slavery, and like it's all over their statements on this kind of stuff. But this investigation by Public Eye and Reporter Brazil proves that that's not the case. So fifty year old Hunan digit Dos Santos was hired as a seasonal worker in April twenty twenty three along with his friend Jose at the Misson de Hesu's Lima. And they're both from a very low income area of Brazil, at Rakahu Sehipe in the northeast region of Brazil. And every year thousands of people from this region head to the south part of Brazil for coffee, for seasonal coffee work, because that's where it all is. And so these locations where these farms are not usually directly owned by Nesle, right, it's like the intermediary companies in Mexico who are employed or partnered with NESLI, And so that's where these men, these two men were, and they were promised a wage of one hundred and twenty re ice. I don't know how you say the money in Brazil rey ices. Yeah, per day, which is like twenty one forty three US dollars.

39:49 And so they got on a bus traveled again, that's twenty one basically twenty one dollars a day. Yeah, they got on a bus and they traveled for two and a half days with their recruiter, and they arrived at the Matta Vere the farm in the state of Espiritu Santo, which both of those names are just so ominous. Expect nothing good to happen there. No, No, I'm sure they sell on there. So I don't know, Actually, I don't know. I don't think Sona. This is a very very remote area. Basically it's only this village and then coffee plantations and forests and that's it. So the first two days of these men getting there seemed great. They drank, they drink, they celebrated, all on the plantation's dime. Uh, they're love bombing them, yes, oh my god. On the third day everything went downhill. They were moved to a new part of the plantation and had to carry their own things and walk to this area. But first they worked a full day and I don't think I need to say, but this is intense mindo labor.

40:48 Yeah. So after this intense mino labor, they walked fifty sorry, they walked twice fifty minutes two times. Damn. Yeah. They did a fifty. Minute walk two times to carry all of their things to their new sleeping area, which included carrying mattresses for fifty minutes. Wow. And they were done very very late into the night. And they found that this new living area had like rotten wooden floors and water stains all over the walls. They were told that this was temporary and that they would receive new beds, but neither of these things happened. They never moved buildings, they never received beds, and the conditions of this new living area were inhumane. There were no doors to provide privacy. There was no sinks or showers, just two hoses which only had cold water. What the fuck.

41:40 There was no tables or chairs, so workers had to eat sitting on the floor or on their mattresses. There was rats everywhere, There was constant power cuts, and the toilets almost never worked. Wow. And workers had to get up at three. Thirty in the morning. They were prepared lunch after a breakfast provided by the plantation, and this breakfast was a cup of coffee and a lump of dough made with made of wheat flour and water. A lump of dough, a lump of dough made of wheat flour and water, so like a tortilla, but uncooked not uncooked yeah, and uncooked dotia basically raw dough. What the yeack and coffee. The worst than the coffee episode where you talked about how they would give them like a little bit of beans.

42:25 At least they would get peas. Then they would take the bus to the plantation at four thirty. They would finish forty to thirty in the morning, so they were up at three third in the morning. They got to the plantation at four thirty in the morning. They finished work at five pm and then they would have to walk back which to fire forty five minutes. Oh. They get there at four. Thirty am and they were five am yeah, wow, And then they had to walk back to their living quarters. They didn't bust them back. What the the. Workers were not given the wage that was instead they were giving what would be the equivalent to eight dollars in ninety three cents a day. Oh my god, for a full day. They were supposed to be getting twenty something dollars.

43:10 Okay. The farm owner then sold what these men harvested for forty times the price he paid them. We're shaking our heads. Yeah. On top of this extremely low pay, everything was deducted from the workers pay, boots, protective clothing, the basket they used to put coffee beans in. And their water bottle. Wow. Yeah, this is literally like what the company towns used to do. This is like also the cost of their bus ride was deducted. Wow, which was sixty two US dollars. Mind you, they're getting paid eight dollars in ninety three cents, but just to keep them there. Yeah, it's literally it's human trafficking. Oh, one hundred percent. Some might say maybe not our listeners, but who knows. But some people might say, well, it's not Nestli doing this. This is on the farm owners. No, because there should be some oversight. Yeah, this is a direct supplier of NESLEI. Like you, if you don't know how your supplier gets their shit, then you need to look into it. And if it's fucking shady, then you need to stop working with them. If you're supposedly you know, ethical, Yeah, what you claim to be, which you celebrate, right. So yeah, this farm that was doing all this, it was at the time that I was doing this. It was involved in the four set program that Neslie was so proud to show off. And so again the workers were also

44:40 charged for the shitty food that was supplied to them, the fucking rat. Oh that's crazy. Yeah. On top of that, they were not allowed to leave the farm. They were closely supervised literally human trafficking, yes, by both the farm manager and the security guards. The farm manager constantly threatened them with his gun. When all of this was too much, Dos Santos and others tried to plan their escape. They used WhatsApp to contact the bus driver to pick them up, but the farm owner discovered this and sent them all the following message quote no one is leaving the farm until their debts are paid off. If if anyone tries, I'll have the entrance to the village closed off end quote. Because also the plantation owners happened to also like be powerful in the village, and they could they could literally close.

45:28 They have to be or how would they get away with this? Exactly? Who would indeed, and his friend has said knew they had to escape, so, risking their own lives, they filmed and photographed the abuse at the hands of the manager and the security guards. They contacted the police gave them this evidence. The police said they would investigate, but Josein who Dandi, didn't know when. So fourteen days after their arrival at the farm, my god, they were only there were four fourteen days. Yeah. They managed to get a man from the village to drive them to the next main road, which then they would take a bus back home. So before midnight, they along with twelve other men, snuck out of the farm and waited for the van. And they had to sit basically on top of each other in this van, and they were super cramped, but they cradle someone just so that we could all feel like, that's crazy. No, I would be on top of the van like hold on to the top. Yeah, yes, hanging on for dear life.

46:22 But that would be better than working for this farm. And they had no idea at the time. But hours after they escaped, investigators did arrive and they were shocked at the conditions they found. Wow, So the remaining ten workers were also freed. Oh, that's good. And then administrative proceedings against the farm owner began. Administrative proceedings so not even criminal proceedings. No, it was literally human trafficking. But yeah, wow, the farm owner agreed to improve the terrible work conditions and to pay the workers a severance payment that amounted to three days of work with damages. How about you fourteen fucking days they worked there? No, seriously a gunpoint. Basically, yes, yes, each worker got around one thy forty three US dollars. Not enough. Not the workers escaped bullshit, Only the ten who were there when investigators arrived. Wow, However they did soon when they ended up settling for almost the same amount. Still not enough, still not enough, still not enough. And that person should not be allowed to operate anything where they would be employing others at all. Ever one hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, And this is just one farm that is a direct supplier of Nesli. But this is far too common in Brazil.

47:38 Yeah. In twenty twenty two, threas I Maas and prima Veda farms were found to have similar working conditions in both Nesli suppliers. Direct supplier Nestlie, you have a problem with your suppliers one hundred percent. In twenty twenty three, another Nesti supplier, Vista Allegtive Farm, was also enslaving their workers. Like this is a pattern now, like they should know by now. Have a quote from Livia Mira Glia Mira Gliau. That's like hard to say anyway. Sorry. She's an associate professor of labor law at the University of Minas Gerais in Brazil and specializes in slave labor and human trafficking. So she stated, quote, the white and male judiciary systematically denigrates the working class. It's common for people who lose their luggage on a flight to receive higher compensation than those who have become victims of slave labor.

48:32 That should not be allowed. That is a wild thing to say, well, not to say it, but to be true, like to be an accurate statement, Like that's wild. She continues that perpetrators are hardly ever prosecuted. No farm owner is afraid that he will have to go to prison for modern slavery. En a quote of two six hundred and seventy nine employers who were accused of modern slavery offenses, only one hundred and twelve of them were convicted. It's impunity. Those numbers come from a study that took place between twenty and eight and twenty nineteen. Oh wow, eleven years, Oh my god. And most of the one hundred and twelve who were convicted received the short sentences that they didn't even serve.

49:17 And Nestle. Just like they did in Mexico, they placed the blame on the coffee farms, on the suppliers. No, especially when they're participating your supposedly ethical a program, like what what qualifies a farm to participate in that? What oversight is there? The crazy things that they do. Inspect these farms, but you know when they expect inspect them before their start productions? Yes, off season? Yes? Stupid on purpose probably, oh one hundred percent, because then NSI goes to say, what we do inspection when they weren't producing anything? Well, what the fuck? How do you? How do you what? It's the point at that point, Yeah, how can you inspect the quality of a worker when they're not working?

50:00 Exactly stupid. In Nesli's statement as a reply to this study that was done by Public Eye, they said that they once they found out about these practices, they remove these farms from their four Sea system. But another NeSSI supplier, NKG Stockler, confirmed to Public Eye that they were not Neslie was not aware of these practices until March twenty twenty five. So they're lying. Yeah, they're lying, and they can lie. That doesn't matter. If they're lying, they can get away with anything. And they when report to Brazil and Public Eye said, well, your supplier told us this, they never replied. And I want to end with Udandid's words to Public Eye about all of this. I'd like to say just one thing to the people in the big multinational corporations, take a close look at what you are doing. Buying coffee is easy.

50:54 The hard part of the job is harvesting it. It's us, the workers who make sure you get your coffee in the first place. And you don't appreciate that end quote. And yes this is the fur eating It really is because like nothing ever ends. No, like these are the conditions we talked about in episode one, and those were like older times. I forgot when, but it was like. The eighteen hundreds, like before nineteen hundred or no, maybe late eighteen hundreds, maybe like mid nineteen eighteens. I forget. I didn't include it in this but in the public I report and all the again, all the links are in the show notes. They talked to a different professor, and this professor said, these conditions of working for farm workers, especially in coffee, goes back to like the start colonization, right because even today these coffee farmers are mostly white, and that, I mean, that's the same thing we talked about again in that coffee episode, but it applies to Brazis too, like this is all, this is all it goes back from even that time period. And yeah, he it's right, He's right. It's sad too, like yeah, so yeah, that was that was nestleie. Wow, yeah, thank you everyone

52:26 for listening. Fuck Nestlie. We have an announcement. We do, we do. We are taking a two week break afrough this episode because I'm moving and Carmen has a trip hard to Yeah. Yeah, and y'all moving. I hate it. I think you underestimated a little bit. Oh I thought I had more time. Oh yeah, we were looking. We were looking at places that had like leasing contracts that started mid August. Oh, I see then, and. We were just not getting them. And then this place came along. We were the first to apply and so now our moving day is August first, and so yeah, I thought I had more time. And you know what moving is really when you learn you just have too much shit. Yeah, and I did have too much shit.

53:17 So yeah, we're taking a two week break because of that, and we'll be back in what's no, I can't do that. We'll be back in after two weeks whatever date that is. So this comes out on the thirty first, so then after that it's the seventh and then fourteenth, So we'll be back on the twenty first. That's what I was gonna ask, the twenty first, right, that's two weeks. Yeah, yeah, the twenty first, Yeah, okay, yeah, we'll be back on the twenty first. I'm hoping to still yap though, if you can kurmash, so yeah, it's to be over on Patreon. A reminder that on Patreon we just either yap about current news topics, which is a lot in the US because we are being bombarded with terrible, terrible things. Sometimes we do do more international news and it's like just a way for us to like digest what's happening and cry and yell and scream about it together and process it.

54:17 But other times we also talk about like influencer drama on TikTok, like we talked about helps life, yeah, internet culture, so yeah, sometimes other things. So yeah, that's what we do over there. If you want to join, and by joining you also help us support. First, you support us, but also you help us donate to things we care about, usually always immigration. Lately we've been doing we had been doing, but now we're doing donating to the car washers because and again it's on the show notes, but they are being targeted supported at mass members in the La County region since the start of this administration ramping up in June.

54:59 So yeah, other than that, we hope that this is one lass Historia Unknown for you. Bye bye. Astoria Unknown is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources for every episode at estorias Unknown dot com and in our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot of work, so if you want to help us out financially, you can do so by supporting us on Patreon at Patreon dot com. Slash She studied as an own podcast