The Birth Control Trials and Dr Helen Rodriguez Trias

0:08 Everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is They Stood as Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin American history, sometimes deterrible and deals with type topics like racism, corruption, and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance, power and community. And today it's about a woman a woman, yes, women only this month except the first episode of the month, that was an accident form to talk about freaking Joe of all people, right, what a disgrace to the month that we had that episode, although it was fun to talk shit about him. Okay, yeah, so yeah, let's just jump right into it. Let's do it. The birth control pill revolutionized women's independence in the US and so many places, but came at the cost of Puerto Rican women who were experimented on without consent in the birth control trials of the nineteen fifties. One third of the island's women were sterilized during these trials, and one woman stood out in the fight against this injustice. She was doctor Helen Rodriguez Thrias. Okay, doctor Helendriusrias. HM. That's today's topic. But before we talk about Helen, let me put some respect on that Doc Dora, bitch exactly. My bad, my bie, my bad, Doctor Helen Rodriguz Trias. Let's do a quick refresher on the birth control trials, because we first talked about this way back in episode eighty nine, Wow in

1:40 twenty twenty four four. Carmen doesn't even remember doing these notes. I don't, which is hence the refresher. So, John Rock and Gregory Pinkis, I remember these bitches. You remember they were the pioneers of the birth control pill. Both got their star where at Harvard? Yeah, Harvard. It's always Harvard. It's always one of those, were those cult whenever it involves an evil dollaror yeah, as if it involves a doctor going into perto Ico, they went to Harvard. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think of the fuck is this bitch's name, doctor Cornelius Rhodes comes to my motherfucker bitch? Yeah, exactly.

2:24 So in the early nineteen fifties, Margaret Sanger At another woman named Catherine McCormick approached Gregory Pinkis about developing the pill. And for those who don't remember who she is or how shitty she is, Carmen, do you want to tell us about her? Sure? Sure, she's known for her work as a feminist, a feminist queen. Some people like to think of her ass because yes, yeah, she did help bring birth control to the US and around the world. But what is less known is Margaret's dark motivations behind wanting women to have access to birth control, these motivations being racism and eugenics. There it is. Marge was a staunch eugenist, she wrote about in many of her writings, and she saw birth control as a safe way to limit the growth of certain populations. Certain Margaret believed the United States was suffering because of uncontrolled reproduction, especially from quote feeble minded people living in city slums. And feeble minded was basically everyone that was like poor, white, Black and Mexican. Yeah, Latin, So that included poor white people.

3:35 Yeah yeah, yeah, so I said poor exactly, they were included. They forget now, but they were included. Yeah. And now they think there are one uh paycheck away from being a millionaire, when reality there are one paycheck less from being unhoused. You know, yeah, as most people in our states are of us are Yeah. Margaret described to the eugenus believe that feeble mindedness was associated with abnormally high rates of fertility, which is also described as a quote biological menace, and she believed feeble minded people shouldn't have the personal liberty to reproduce as much as normal people. I just feel disgusting to even say all this, Like, I can't believe people thought that and still think that honestly. Yeah, Margaret saw birth control as a solution and was quoted saying birth control is really the greatest and most truly eugenic method, and its adoption as part of the program of eugenics would immediately give a concrete and realistic power to that science end quote. In a writing call the Pivot of Civilization, Margaret wrote several pages about a sixteen year old the black girl she knew from one of the planned par Net clinics, who was supposedly feeble minded, and who supposed uncontrolled or production resulted in sixteen children who either died at a young age or became criminals.

4:52 Of course, there's a lot more to say about this. I recommend the article I use, which is linked in the show notes, but I just wanted to give a brief description of Margaret Singer, who backed the creators of the birth control pill. And yes, it has dark origin, just like everything does. But that's no reason to demonize the birth control pill today because there's a powerful, rich movement pushing anti birth control messaging, not only the youth. But I can't tell you how many fucking friends I have had that I've been like, Oh, I'm getting off birth control because of the hormones. And I understand affects some people differently, you know, And let me tell you that I love birth control because of the hormones. It's amazing living my best self because of birth control. But it came meta cost. It can meta cost, which is what we're talking about today. So like Margaret, John Rock believed birth control was necessary to control the world population.

5:44 Another staunch eugenist, in an interview, John W. Said, quote, people like to have babies, and this is particularly so among primitive peoples end a quote. And Gregory Pinks, on the other hand, was known as doctor Frankenstein for his innovative research like IBF in rabbits, and he was not so much interested in the eugenus side of this. He was more interested in the science. He once said, quote, I am against women having sexual freedom, but I hastened to add that I'm also post to sexual freedom among them, sexual oppression for everybody. Nobody could have sex, nobody, not I, not you, not he, not the man, not the woman, not the da thems, exactly exactly. Gregory and John used to correspond in the nineteen thirties and later reconnected at a scientific conference in nineteen fifty two, where they chattered about their work and found out they both use the same drugs in that work. Gregory ended up asking John to collaborate with him in a TikTok of it. No, I was just kidding, yes, to collaborate. Do you want to collab on him? Do you want to collabse So they collabed on some clinical trials for birth control, first in Boston on women who were interned at an asylum, later in Yeah, and if it's not an asylum, it's a Latin American country, m or both asylum first and

7:15 then yeah, thinking of the Guatemalan syphilis experiment, well, exactly, this was an asylum, and then later Puerto Rico. Yeah. Concerns with Gregory's ethics and methodology arose during the Boston experiments in nineteen fifty four, with the goal of learning about the pills possible tranquilizing effect. Gregory launched a new trial with sixteen patients at the Say Hospital and Asylum. He gave them birth control prototypes and then sliced into their uteruses to understand the pills effect on ovulation. After he published his findings, his peers were critical of his methodology, with one doctor saying, quote, this use of guinea pigs of chronic psychotic patients who are not able to give or withhold violid mission in physiological research of this type must be as repugnant to many of your readers as it is to me. End quote. I'm surprised someone said anything, though, yeah, because this was like the norm back then. But Gregory Pinks didn't care. He kept experimenting on as silent patients, even overseeing an experiment in which scientists under Gregory's direction performed testicular biopsies on men with schizophrenia without anesthesia. That's just torture. That's not even like, yeah, that's not any people did the most disgusting things, like I'm thinking, like how the field of obgyn came kynacology came to be basically on the torture of black women, enslaved black women. Yes, yes exactly. He supposedly did this, these testicular biopsies on

8:50 men with schizophrenia to learn about men's current castration anxiety. And obviously this is horrible. Some of this was like the norm back then, like we just said, but also there was just no standards for obtaining medical consent. The reason we have medical consentitay is because of things like this. Gregory decided Puerto Rico was the perfect place to continue the human trials because there were no anti birth control laws in place, and because there was an already established network of birth control clinics. There were sixty seven clinics providing family planning services to Puerto Rican women already, and eugenesis, like Margaret Sanger and these two doctors, John Rock and Gregory Pinkis, targeted Puerto Rico because of their fear of poor Hispanic overpopulation. Eugenics also had a lot to do with the more liberal birth control laws in Puerto Rico, with for sterilization having been codified into law back then.

9:49 In nineteen thirty three, the Governor of Puerto Rico wrote to Margaret Sanger saying, quote, the tragedy of the situation is that the more intelligent classes voluntarily restrict their birth rate, while the most vicious, most ignorant, and most helpless and hopeless part of the population multiplies with tremendous rapidity. End quote. Don't like that, right, all torrible. Of course, Puerto Rico's long colonial as in their colony, and the United States is colonizing Puerto Rico. This is a factor as well. Gabriela Soto la Veaga, a professor of the history of science at Harvard said, quote, because of its semi colonial status of the US, the ability to test on these women's body seem like these territories are an extension of US. Yeah, like they see the people as expendable, just like they see Puerto Rico as expendable. Like this is just a plaything for us. Yes. Yes, prior to with control pills, Puerto Rican women use lauperacion or surgery sterilization to prefer pregnancy. Although, as we've had other episodes on this as well, for s is also a thing. Yeah, it was also a thing.

11:05 Later research from the nineteen eighties showed that about sixteen percent of the prodicing women who underwent serilization did not consent to it, but many producing women were eager to have control over their family planning. And there's a lot more to say about sterilization because in addition to sometimes it being forced, women were also coerced and manipulated to undergo sterilization and l'ao parasion as it became known. In sterilization, it was free, and that's already dicor and itself not as saying the same thing. Wow, women were pressured into sterilizations by employers who strongly favored sterilized employees. Health workers also went door to door begging mothers who already had two children to undergo hysterectomies or tubal ligations, which is highly aunethical. Yes, do we need to say that? No?

12:04 Not really Still, but the women were also light about the permanency of la operacion and they were told it could be reversed. And this also reminds me of the sterilization cases in California, and that's coersion as well. Yeah, that is being led to about it. Yeah. Regardless of this ongoing corision and pressure, Puerto Rican women were eager to be able to have control over their production. In fact, John and Gregory often had more participants sign up than they needed, and they soon expanded their program experiment to other areas of Puerto Rico. Gregory Pinkus also felt that if he could show that quote dumb, poor women from Puerto Rico could follow the birth control per regimen, then women anywhere could bullshit. The trials started out small, with senso Ra monte Garcia, a colleague of Gregory and John's at work. Chester Foundation, the foundation that was funding the hospital, recruited twenty medical students from the University of Puerto Rico, who the subject of our episode is a graduate from She graduated from the University of Puerto Rico, with over half eventually dropping out, and this made Gregory Pinks and John Rock mad, but they had a reason to drop out because of the pills, grueling side effects, and the amount of time that it required from the participants. They experienced blood clots, bleeding, nausea, they had to take their

13:34 temperature and a vaginal smear daily. Too much, then, yeah, too much already, But that's not all. Each month their services were dilated and then tissue from their uteruses were collected, and in more extreme cases, some of the women underwent leperotomies liberotomies in which a large incision was made to the abdominal cavity so that their ovaries could be observed in real time. Oh my god, sounds horrible. We could only hope they were given anesthesia. Were going on? Please. In April nineteen fifty six, Gregory, John and their team moved on to conduct their research at Rio Pierras. A memo from Gregory to John indicated that two hundred and sixty five women they recruited were sufficiently intelligent, women for whom pregnancy would be acceptable or at worse, inconvenient. Although women were eager for non permanent family planning options, Gregory and John ran into similar problems at their previous hospital.

14:34 Over twenty percent of the women dropped out of the trial because of the pill side effects because of how time consuming their participation was. There was also a mistrust in the trials, with the newspaper El Imparseal the Impartial, calling the tests a campaign to sterilize women. The women complained of nausea, dizziness, headaches, stomach pain, and vomiting. These side effects are still calming when you take birth control pills, but imagine taking what you take now, but like three times. Yeah, because that's how strong these pills. They were still testing out the prescription. These side effects were so serious that doctor Adris Rice Ray, a faculty member of the Puerto Rican Medical School and a medical directory of the Puerto Rican Family Planning Association and who oversaw the trials, reported to Gregory that the ten milligramd does caused too many problems to be generally acceptable. But Gregory John Pinkitt's wringing in whatever whatever, dude, they dismissed. Doctor and Rice raised concerns and they believed that the complaints were psycho semitic.

15:37 These women were just making it up. These symptoms are not real, and whatever physical symptoms were actually real were nothing compared to the benefit of the pill, because who listens to women, let alone Puerto Rican women. Please, these women don't know their own bodies, they don't know what they're feeling. No, you can't trust them. M The doctors attributed the psychosomatic symptoms to Puerto Rican women being hyperactive emotionally. Also, on top of all that, three women who participated in the trial died and there was no investigation at all to see if the pill had anything to do with the death of these women, and like if you have a certain fact risk factors, like the pill can totally kill you. Yeah, like I forgot you smoke, But yeah, there is certain things. Yeah if you smell more high risk, if you have heart issues. So yeah. Years later, it was discovered that the scientists lied to the women by failing to disclose that the pill was in its experimental stages, that they were the experiment. Yeah. They never told the women they were participants in a clinical trial. They made it.

16:48 They presented it like it was already good to go. The Puerto Rican women participated in the trial until nineteen sixty four, even while the pill became available to women in the US. But even the US experience severe side effects and lawsuits were launched against the manufacturers. Of course, the difference here is that the women in the US were not tricked into taking the experimental medicine. They were just taking it. It was already available, allowed to have informed consent. Yes. Delia Mayestre, one of the participants in the trial, told The Orlando Sentinel, the newspaper, the experiments were both good and bad. Why didn't they let us make some decisions for ourselves? I have difficulty explaining that time to my own grown children. I have very mixed feelings about the entire thing, and of course, of course she does because they were lied to. Okay, And this leads us to doctor Helen Rodriguez Thrias, who stood up against the birth control trials in Puerto Rico. She was born July seventh, nineteen twenty nine, in New York City, but two days after her birth, her family returned to Puerto Rico. When she was ten, her family went back to New York City and her mom had been a teacher in Puerto Rico, but in New York she was unable to get a teacher's license. So this was kind of like Helen's first look at the difference between Puerto

18:19 Rico and being in the US, and like how it was not fair, how the inequity was bearing its ugly head in a more evident way now. So because you couldn't get a teacher's license, this forced her mom to get creative on how to make ends meet, which included taking in borders in their apartment in New York City. Helen experienced racism and discrimination, but this didn't stop her from excelling in school. She got good grades but was placed in a class with students with learning disabilities. Could you guess why what made her put her in this class? Because she didn't speak English fully or had an accent?

19:03 She was bilingual? Oh okay, No because of her last name, because of the Hispanic last name. Oh it's close, yeah, but worse because they're not well. Actually, I mean they did this in the schools like that. We talked about the Mexican schools. It was based on last name, not like proficiency with English or anything. It wasn't until her teacher heard her reciting a poem that her teacher realized that Helen was a gifted learner, and she sent her to a class for gifted children. Later in life, she would go on to say, Helen would have go on to say, quote, one day I was called upon to recite a poem, and I knew of the poem by heart. I might have just as well gone down the tubes academically if that teacher hadn't moved me out of that class.

19:48 It just makes you think of how many mixed me, think of how many kids were yeah, and how it takes just one person to notice, and it shouldn't take one person, Like people should be where they're supposed to be you know what I mean, right, right, it should be like equal yeah, equal education, exactly equitable, yes, yes. She continued excelling at school and later, after graduating in high school, she was set on becoming a doctor. She chose a medical career because quote, it combined the things I love the most, science and people end quote. I love that, right. She also chose to go to school in Puerto Rico because the island had a really good scholarship system. She attended the University of Puerto Rico, which was the home of the student faction of the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party and it had a strong independence movement.

20:41 In general, the school did, and so because of the students' ties with the nationalist movement, Pedro Albisu Campos was invited to speak at the university by the student council, but the university's chancellor, Jime Beneath this was against this. Jime USA he does and he didn't allow Petrol Viso onto campus, and in response, the students went on strike at Helen was among these students. Okay, Helen, Yeah, her first like radicalization was tied to the Puerto Rican Independent movement, but her fat more, her brother specifically didn't approve of this, and he threatened to cut off for college expenses. And so she returned to New York and she didn't finish school.

21:26 Then in New York, when she returned, she got married to David Newmark Brainan and had three kids. But then she returned to Puerto Rico to pursue her degree. Okay, and she returned to University of Puerto Rico, where she again became involved in the Puerto Rican independence movement. You can't hold this back. You know, the seas are there and they're going to grow. Yeah. She was thirty one when she graduated from medical school, just before having her four kid Damn. During her residency, she established the first center for the care of newborn babies in Puerto Rico.

22:07 Sometimes it amazes me how much some woman can get done. This fucking lady had four fucking kids. She finished med school and established the first center for the care of newborns and Bertrico. Like what, women are amazing while this bitch can't even figure out her work I routine damn. And this played a huge part in the decrease of the death rate for newborns on the island. Amazing. Within three years it decreased fifty percent. Wow, that's a lot. And she did that. She did that. She no, but yeah. She also went on to establish a medical practice in the field of pediatrics after her residency, and through all this she was divorced, remarried, and divorced again. Wow, she can do it all, truly. In nineteen seventy she returned to New York and divorce transformed her. It's what moved her to bridge science with the personal experience, is what she would go on to say. Marriage triggered quite a bit of growth in me toward understanding what happens internally to people and what happens in their lives and what they can do or not do. End quote. In New York, she worked at the Lincoln Hospital. Ooh, if you're not a new listener or not new to like New York Latin or Latina history, Lincoln Hospital should ring a bell

23:38 if you're a new listener. We have an episode on the Lincoln Offensive. But the Lincoln Hospital was the very hospital the Young Lords occupied in their Lincoln Offensive. It was an uprising and if you remember from that episode, they had a list of demands and part of it was to bring in new administration that would identify better with the population served down Linkinn Hospital. Because of the Lincoln Offensive, she was brought in as the head of the pediatric department. Amazing, right, Like how all these topics come together. Yeah, And if you recall from that episode, this was a severely underfunded hospital in one of the most low income communities, which serviced mostly Puerto Ricans but also black patients. And about her working there, a colleague would say, quote, at a time when Puerto Rican women were sorely missing from the professional health fields, She's stood as a beacon of hope to those she served end quote Amazing, Yes, truly, and that's the kind of represent representation that really matters now politics as I'm talking about. Yes, Yes, At Lincoln Hospital, Helen doctor Helen lobby to give all workers of voice in the administrative and pasion care issues.

24:56 She became involved with the Puerto Rican community and encouraged the healthcare workers the hospital to become aware of the cultural issues that needs of the community. And this was like the most like woe hospital. Yeah, Like I mean, like almost all of the US one could say, like the workers that that saw Lincoln Hospital as a place of employment. They were there to serve the community. They wanted to be there, they wanted to be there. Exactly. It was around this time that she attended an abortion conference at Bernard College, and after attending this conference, she began to advocate for free abortions. Free abortions, Yes, abortions for everyone. You get one, you and when you get if you want one, if you want one, if if, and for more widely available birth control for poorer women.

25:44 She recalled her time in Puerto Rico with more reverence. Is that a word? Is that the word I'm looking for? Like? This conference awoke her. It made her look at her time. Were to go at any light? Okay, that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I to think about that one. I even wrote instanwardly, I know, I talk of what I was going to write. I was like, how do I word this? But yeah, when any light with different eyes and you light, yes, exactly. She recalled the specific time during her residency where she watched the mother of five tragically die from a dodgy abortion. Oh terrible, And that was so so common back then and is more common again because Robby Wade. Exactly, while in Puerto Rico.

26:29 She wasn't involved in the women's movement, but this conference, like we said, like after this conference, she was like fixated on the women's issues she missed in her time in Puerto Rico. She recalled another medical student criticizing a lecture for saying, quote, there are only two kinds of abortion, therapeutic and criminal. Hm wrong, Yes, exactly. The implication was that there were no indications for abortion except in cases of pending death of the mother. The only student that had called out the lecturer said, this is a Catholic perspective. There's no discourse like this. The way you're viewing abortion is religious and that's not Yeah, that's not it. That made doctor Helen really think more critically, and she began to look around, and she saw that only those who could afford an abortion could get one if they wanted one.

27:24 If a wealthy person knew the right person, that abortion could be written up as a different procedure like in a apendectomy. Those with means would leave the US for Havana to get abortions because it could. That's true like in mainland US as well, you know what I mean. Yeah, So like people now in states that had those trigger laws. Once they overturned Roe v. Wade, they immediately lost access to abortions, but that didn't mean that people stopped needing abortions. And so those that are able to go out of state and just like they all always have even before Roe v. Wade, And that meant that rich people, rich people who are trying to take away our rights now, like that fucking bitch Ivanka, That fucking bitch had an abortion over here, supporting her fucking rapist dad and his movement in trying to take abortion away when she had a fucking abortion herself. And so of the Trump's wives, I think one of them, Yeah, they're like they're hypo.

28:25 Always rules for the not or whatever it goes, rules for the not for me. Yeah, you're stupid, right, I can remember what the event with the am I the the so, Yeah, she began to see the inequities and the way obgyns treated all women and this began to really bother her. It was the woman's health movement that brought her to feminism, especially that conference as she went to right in nineteen seventy. And this is a quote from her about this time in her life. Quote, the specialty of obstetrics and gynecology created folks very geared toward surgical solutions. This was one reason why cesarian section rates were going up. This didn't necessarily respect women's wishes regarding child bearing or other issues. The only way to affect change was for more women to go into the professions and in still a different perspective on more human touch and a more respectful relationship with patients. She was also asked about how it was for woman of color starting out in what was predominantly a white women's movement, and she said it wasn't just color, it was social class.

29:39 The movement was very diverse, but the more public positions articulated by the movement didn't include experiences or concerns of women of color or of poor women. I went to conferences and get togethers. One big one in Anyok was attended by several thousand women and the women mostly talked about cultural issues the Third World women and as we call ourselves Zen would get together in craft to social and economic agenda and we going to have a movement. It has to be about equity, about getting economic power, about ending violence against women. And they did their presentation during this conference. They made it more concrete, They focused on important issues, and they made it intersectional. This is what she intersectionality, yes, which is what white women were not doing. And she goes on to say that, yeah, yeah, you had to deal with the inequities, which is what was lacking. And it was this conference and her experience in Puerto Rico that made her become a founding member of the Committee to End Sterilization Abuse Amazing otherwise known as Sessa. Then in nineteen seventy one, she became a founding member of the Women's Caucus of the American Public Health Association. She founded abortion rights, fought for the abolishment of enforced sterileation, and sought neo natal care for underserved people.

31:04 In nineteen seventy nine, she became a founding member for the Committee for Abortion Rights and Against Sterilization Abuse, so just joining the two causes really and testified before the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare for a passage of federal sterilization guidelines. And she talked about this in a nineteen seventy four Boston conference. So this is her words quote. We had a panel on sterilization abuse, which had to do with disrespect for women's needs, which is in hopes. We brought up the Ralph suit brought on behalf of two black allegedly these are the words that they use back then, So sorry, but allegedly retarded girls many Lee Ralph h twelve and Mary Alice Ralph age fourteen, who had been serilized without their knowledge or consent in a federally funded program in Montgomery, Alabama, right end quote. And so when they presented this like law to end sterilization, they use that case in Montgomery, Alabama, And she drafted the guidelines which would require a woman's reign consent to sterilization in a language they could understand, which is like such an important thing to include. Yeah, and it also set a waiting period between consent between the consent and the sterilization procedure. She is also credited with helping to expand the range of public health services for women and children in minority and low income populations in not only

32:35 the US, but also Central and South America, Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. Oh my god, what didn't she do exactly? And at that Boston conference where they brought this case and argued for laws to ban sterilization, she met a lot of resistance. So let me read this quote here. This is from her as well. Quote. We got a lot of flak from white women who had private doctors and wanted to be sterilized. They had been denied for their requests for sterilization because of their status unmarried, or the number of their children, usually the doctor that they had too few. They therefore opposed a waiting period or any other regulation that they interpreted as limiting access.

33:25 While young white middle class women were denied their requests for sterilization, low income women of certain ethnicity were misled or coerced into them. That is so interesting that you had this quote in this moment, because when you were talking about the wanting to implement their goal of implementing the weight periods for sterilizations, I literally had the same thought, like, because people want to get sterilized. Some people want to get sterilized, and then they get upset and rightfully so, like at being denied or having way things like that. But sometimes there's a reason. Yeah, there's a reason for that, And I feel like people don't think past themselves, you know. Sorry, Yeah, it's just so I don't know, it's like she she specifically mentioned like young white, middle class women. We're the ones.

34:23 They received flack from white women for this, But it reminds me of the for siilization case in California, where while women were protesting because obviously, if someone takes away you're like, like, feminism includes reproductive rights and whether you want to or not want to write right, both of those things, but people forget about people wanting children. Yeah, And so during the protests, calling out the hospital saying like end for civilization, fucking white women were protesting for abortion in front of them. It's like, you're not the one being forced to write a border or to lose your productive rights if you wanted them, and so it's supposed to be both ways. So like, yeah, people who want the opportunity to have children, meaning to not be forcibly sterilized, should have that option, and people who do not want children should be able to not have children, you know exactly. And some of these people were, like you said, were only thinking of themselves. Yeah, And this quote of hers specifically made me think of the people in California for protesting against these Mexican women who were forcibly sterilized, Like I just know they were like anti protesters.

35:55 I thought they were just saying yeah, no, no, no, they were they were like anti protests. That. Okay, that's worse. I kind of sworn I mentioned this, Well, you probably did. I just mean, like right now, when you said it, I thought, yeah, for some reason, they were just there, which does make sense. Yeah. No, I'm like, it's a it's a white woman feminism. It's privileged, yeah, which is privilege? Yes, okay, So she also said quote, I began to understand that we were coming to different conclusions because we were living different realities. People have different perspectives. The women's movement has been successful only to the extent that it shares experience, finds common ground, and fights for the same thing. I am proud that I made my contribution and moving forward the dialogue among many women, a dialogue that took place over many years. We had to listen to each other, We had to find out each other's reality. For example, I had a professional salary. I didn't know what it's like to live on welfare. So yeah, just like emphasizing how she's talking about intersection intersectionality, Yeah, yeah, which is like necessary. Yes, her work against sterilization was just the beginning In the nineteen eighties, doctor Helen Rodriguestrias also served as medical director of the New York State Department of Health AIDS Institute. She worked on behalf of women for minority groups who were infected with HIV. Wow, which is

37:30 like the most intersectional thing you can do. At a time when people were like scared of HIV, she was directly working with them. In the nineteen ninety she served as health co director of the Pacific Institute for Women's Health, a nonprofit research and advocacy group dedicated to improving women's women's well being worldwide and focus on reproduction. She was a founding member of both the Women's Caucus and the Hispanic Caucus of the American Public Health Association APHA, and the first Latina to serve as president of the APHAO. She once stated that her biggest inspiration came from brands of her own mother, aunts, and sisters, who faced so many restraints in their struggle to flourish and realize their full potential. She was also a pioneer in pediatric tuberculosis. Wow.

38:23 Oh my god, she literally did it all. No, really, this kind of makes me think of the work the Young Lords did for tuberculosis clinics. I'm wondering if maybe they could have worked together in this because she worked at the Lincoln Hospital and worked closely with the Portkin community who was so affected by tuberculosis during these years. And so I have an Inklan thought these might be related. Yeah, Okay. In nineteen ninety six, she helped found the Pacific Institute for Women's Health in LA, based nonprofit dedicated to improving women's health and well being. She was all So a consultant for the International Health Programs Public Institute, where her focus was improving family planning and healthcare in South and Central America. Wow. And the deputy director of this institute, James Williams, said about her, she didn't seem like a radical, this middle aged lady, conservatively dressed with a lovely smile. Oh, but she certainly was a radical in her desire for change and her ability to push for it. We should all be radicals for positive and meaningful change to prove everyone's lives. Yes. Her most recent work, towards the end of her life, she was working for the same organization, which was involved in identifying and enlisting local leaders for reprojective health programs in sal and Vehico. So like amazing would go on to leave these organizations, wow, because she

39:56 was like aging out of it. Yeah, so she was like looking for futurely because she's like, I can't be the one I have to rest at some point. Yes, Yes, ensuring that underserved populations, especially the rural indigenous, were not forgotten. That same guy you mentioned, the director of the organization, James Williams, said quote, she wanted to cause sustainable change within these countries. She was completely dedicated to making these things happen. Amazing. Yes. On January eighth, two thousand and one, President President Bill Clinton. Maybe the only good thing he did, possibly, quite possibly, he awarded doctor Helen Rodriguez Trias with the Presidential Citizens Medal, the second highest civilian award in the US Wow, for her work on behalf of women, children, people with HIV and AIDS, and poor people. And that was actually deserved because some people have gotten this support for norwek e bulshit. Yeah, but she deserved it this and more. She died later that year. I wanted her to live forever. No, for real, I'm genuinely sad right now. Yeah, she honestly amazing. It was just so inspiring December twenty one, two thousand and one, due to lung cancer. In twenty nineteen, Charlene McCrae announced that New York City would build a

41:29 statue honoring doctor Helen Triaz Rodriguez in Saint Mary's Park near Lincoln Hospital. We have to go there, to go there, we had to go there. I need toure all the historical spots we've talked about seriously, and I need to see the statue. I just can't believe. I can't believe a woman like this existed, Like I can because of course, but I'm just like in awe of her right now. Yes, I'm going to leave you with her words. We need health, but above all, we need to create grounding for health public policy that redresses and salvages the growing inequities. We cannot achieve a healthier US without achieving a healthier, more equitable healthcare system and ultimately a more equitable society. Oh my god, oh my god. Nothing better has ever been spoken. No, really, and yeah, that was doctor Helen rodriguezri Wow wow, wow, wow wow. Truly an amazing pioneer woman, doctor, mother, researcher, advocate, radical.

42:37 Oh my god radical, Yeah, yeah, inspiring, yeah okay, well what a wonderful and yeah, but I wanted to, like, I know, it was like repeating things that we need a context because the context was from a longer time ago, right, and it it formed and informed her work truly, like so so yeah, well, I guess if anyone is interested, we have a Patreon where we yap about current events. Sometimes it's silly, like about reality TV. Sometimes it's serious, like about the state of the world crying inside. So yeah, we have Pittreon. I forgot how much it costs a month, Like a cup of coffee, okay, yeah, one one cup of coffee. Some people get a weekly or daily cup of coffee, a weekly weekly bitch, I'll be dead. Uh yeah.

43:31 So for the price of one coffee from your daily coffee or maybe weekly treat of coffee shop coffee, you can hear us yap yes, yes, and support the podcast what else? What else? What else? I don't know? Recommend us to a history loving friend, follow us on the socials, and thank you so much Christina for this beautiful, wonderful episode, and we hope this was one less still unknown for you. Bye bye bye Estoria's Unknown is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources for every episode attias unknown dot com and in our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot of work, so if you want to help us out financially, you can do so by supporting us on Patreon at patreon dot com. Slash Studio as an own podcast