A Brief History of the Panama Canal Zone (Part Three)

0:09 Hi, everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is Estodia's Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption, and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance, power and community. And sorry about last week there was a new episode because I was behind on my notes. But we are back today, BB and we we're continuing our topic of the Panama Canal. So shall we get into it? Do you have anything you want to talk about before? No? No, do you have a little reminder of where we were? Cool? Then? No, I'm good, Okay, cool. So last episode we talked about the underlying eugenus and colonial beliefs behind the US obtaining and building the Panama Canal, and today we'll be talking more about the three main periods of the development of the canal from nineteen oh four to nineteen fifteen, which ultimately ended in the depopulation of the zone towns. And that's kind of what I left off at saying last time to about these three periods. Yes, anyway, let's get into it. So, between nineteen oh four and nineteen oh seven, many zone towns went from being Panamanian municipalities to American municipalities. Some US officials believed that they could create a quote model of American government in the heart of Central America as an object lesson to South and Central American republics. Okay, but again, right, think that's

1:42 not surprising at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And there'll be a lot of that today. So this goes back to the racisabilize of the US that won republics in Latin America needed lessons from them because they're so stupid right about how to run their governments. And two, that their systems of government were not modern. And let's remind yourselves that many Latin American countries were already republics for a longer time than the US, and that they outlawed slavery way before the US, which again, like we said last episode, is the first sign of a humane and respectful society, right, And they also adopted manhood suffrage way before the US, and still the US believed themselves to be more modern.

2:28 The second chairman of the Isthmian Canal Commission or the ICC, and this again reminder, was the American Administration Commission that oversaw the construction of the Panama Canal. So the chairman of the ICC, Theodore P. Sean and anyone with that name Theodore is a red flag, right, Yes, of course Theodore Roosevelt. Yes, he said that the US had to bring a modern development into existence in a tropical wilderness afflicted by deadly fews and pestilents, and a practically uninhabitable area. And he was referring to Panama. Okay, mind you, people have been living there forever. People have been habitating here. Yeah, people areats there, are inhabitants and have been for years. Yeah.

3:18 And the transition period from Panamanian municipalities under the control of Colombia to US municipalities was initially messy and raised in many questions like what would happened to pending lawsuits and what town residents participate in Panama's elections. The first governors of the Zone had experienced in colonization since they had governed and worked in Puerto Rico, Cuba, and the Philippines already, like, oh, look at that colonizing there. Yeah. Wow. In total, five American municipalities were created in the Zone area, these being Gorgona, Buenavista and Peralo and Conne and Crystobal, and three of these already had existed under Columbia, and these were Goguana, Bonavista, and Perlor. And initially, the US recognized the temporary authority of the zone mayors and the ICC gave a Zone municipalities extensive rights like for example, in August nineteen oh four, the zone municipalities had rights to seize private property for public utility, which was similar to the rights of the zone government, so not any different right. A month later, the September nineteen oh four Municipal Government Act was enacted, and this showed that early on that initially the ICC officials dot these towns would be populated by both Panamanians and US citizens and both yeah and both Spanish and English would be the official languages. Okay,

4:49 so their initial intent was not to depopulate all the No, not in the beginning, right. The new laws required all municipal officers to be able to intelligently speak, read, and write the Spanish or English language, to be at least twenty five years old and resident of the municipality. The laws also showed that the ICC initially planned for the Zone towns to be pretty much the same as other Panamanian towns, since the Act described licensing and taxing around cockfighting, restaurants, katina's, lodging houses, public dance houses, and more kinds of private businesses. And of course this wouldn't last. Eventually these towns would become company towns, American towns within Panama in the zone where there was no alcohol, no bars, fume. Yeah, yeah, basically Leyman Puritan, Yeah, very purtin, like you know how Americans can get yeah, what their fucking fake morals, Like, oh, alcohol is wrong, but enslaving someone is right exactly. So, like I mentioned before, there were some legal questions about jurisdiction issues. The Pandemanian Secondary of State domas Arias wanted the new zone courts to handle all pending in new legal cases from the zone towns, and many judges did, but others didn't agree. In one instance, a judge refused to touch a case until he received fur their clarification, and this case ended up with Panama's Attorney General, who was supposed to provide clarification, and the Attorney General argued

6:22 that Panama had not lost jurisdiction over court cases and the US only had jurisdiction over matters relating to the canal, which was similar to what we talked about last time with the port. The fight about the ports, Yes, and this case went all the way to Banama Supreme Court, but they refused to make a decision, saying it was an issue for the Ministry of Foreign Relations, and ultimately the Ministry of Foreign Relations held the view that the nineteen o three treaty restricted the US to the judicial rights over the Zone Panama gave the US jurisdiction only over daily issues that might arise from the development of the canal, and the end this wouldn't even matter because these municipalities were disbanded and the towns eventually depopulated, and the US came to roll over the zone and they just did whatever they wanted until I think the seventies or sixties, which I mean we'll get into at the end.

7:18 I'll be probably the last seventies, I think, but yeah, yeah, I think it was the seventies. Other issues had to do with electoral rights of Panamanians living in Zone towns. Before the US took over the control of the zone, several municipal districts located in Gorgona and Berralo Buenavisa and Gatun used to participate in national elections, but now that the residents found themselves within the US territory, things changed. Now the Zone government appointed the Alcaldes and Pannamanians could only exercise their political rights outside of the zone. Wow, in municipalities outside of the zone municipal How many times did I say this? Stand word and areas outside of the zone, municipal politics were important and outside of the zone Pandemanians had the right to elect their municipal council.

8:15 So while the US and the Zone officials were purporting to bring modern politics to Panama, they actually caused Panamanians within the zone to lose their electoral rights. When the municipalities took away, they took away their political rights. Yeah, because these municipalities became administrative districts with the i c C electing all the not even electing, like just appointing, appointing authorities and all that. Yeah. Of course they did though, right like and their wish to supposedly bring modern government to this place that already had governments and systems. But because they're dumb and not white, because they think they know better, Yeah, they took away things that they had already been doing right, good old USA, Yes, classic USA move.

9:09 And this brings us to the ICC and the Zones Sanitation era. Between nineteen oh four and nineteen twelve, the ICC tried to regulate and organize the zone and this included laying out street lines and sidewalks, building new housing due to the huge amount of workers needed for the development of the canal, and of course, in the authorities view, bringing sanitation to the tropics. In early health report said quote, the Isthmus of Panama has for years been known as the filthiest and unhealthiest place on earth. Wow, the way that I dropped my job when I wear that. Yeah, Like, how can you refer to a place like this? But of course of course they did. Yeah. It reminds me of Trump's stupid ass quote when you called Garbageland or something. Yeah, a floating in garbage. Oh that was the comedian Han, not Trump. That was a comedian, but back comedian, a right quote comedian. Uh No, back in in Trump's first presidency when he was calling like while He's like saying, like, oh, why don't they send people from these countries instead of these trash countries? And in referring to these shithole countries, right, that's what he said. Yeah, yeah, so it's very very akin to that. Yeah, and it just shows you that these these beliefs, they don't die, they just grow. Yeah. Yeah.

10:34 Doctor whim Gorgis was in charge of sanitation and he was considered a pioneer in mosquito research and credited as the person who eradicated yellow fever in Havana, Goba. The icy Cs, I just assume people knew where that is, just in case I don't know. I don't know, I don't know know. The ic ces sent decision strategy came from a combination of nineteenth century miasthma theories about swamps and tropical mud and the then newer grum theory and the Lady's discoveries about the role of mosquitoes in the transmission of malaria and yellow fever. Just as a reminder that my asthma theory was the belief that diseases were caused by a poisonous form of air called my asthma, and so many believe that disease in Banama was caused by the bad fumes coming from tropical swamps, mud and filth, which of course, now we know that stupid. Yeah, now we know those liked like, yeah, it looks some made up shit, you know, like the made up ship by white people. Yeah, some guy named Robert Tomes. And the reason I wrote some guys because like I read in the book about whatever his role was, and then I didn't like mark that spot. So so it's gone. So now I don't know. Yeah some guy, Yeah, some guy.

11:59 I don't know. I don't Robert. He described the city of Cologne as a dirty and unsanitary settlement over marshy pools corrupt with decaine matter. So that was the kind of thought you know that that was around back then. Yeah, dumb again. Yeah. So because of these theories and science, the ICC thought it was important to make sure there was enough distance between buildings, that houses had to be three feet above the ground and distant enough from mud, and that American buildings had to be a certain distance between local or native buildings, that distance being a thousand feet. Wow.

12:46 And to no one's surprise, this led to distinctions between Americans and natives and only led to greater separation. So essentially, segregation is what happened. Right, Oh my god, look at them going to a country that's not theirs and then segregating the locals. What a surprise. Yeah, yeah, al turnives developments that we did not foresee. I didn't see that coming. Yeah, we didn't. Yeah. This practice of separating housing from natives or indigenous people, locals right to the area, and colonizers was not new, and it went back to the days of the British colonies in Asia and Africa, who were considered it essential to separate native neighborhoods from white neighborhoods in order to save white colonials from contagious diseases. The ICC, like the British colonizers, referred to all kinds of Panamanian housing as huts, even when local housing was constructed in similar ways to like America, even though it looks almost the same, and it was like yes, yeah, yeah, God, And this is important to know because by referring to all housing as huts, then that justified their practices as saying, oh, these are primitive, gross discussing houses that we can't be near too. Yeah yeah, And it also justified their view that the natives and locals were a part of the disease tropical landscape, meaning like they viewed the natives, the

14:19 indigenous people of the area of Panama, the same way they viewed the gross, dirty mud. Yeah right, like as vectors of disease. There's no fixings. They are dirty and gross, just like this dirty, gross swamp. And they are also spreading disease just like they're the problem. Yeaeah they not us, they right, And this led to racialized health practices, which was so widespread. They viewed dirty Mexicans in the United States the same as the dirty Panamanians and the Panama Canal zone. Right, And let's talk a bit about doctor William Gorgius since I mentioned him but didn't really describe him as much. I mean, we're gonna talk about the rice on the behind his work more than actually his work, because you know that's more important. Yes, Gorgaz described his work in Latin America as quote the conquest of the tropics for the white race. Okay, okay, all of that wrong?

15:16 Oh my god, wow, you know, William, what the fuck? Gourias, Come on, Gourias, we need to talk. Goryas planned to manage or eradicate malaria and yellow fever involved destroying mosquito breeding habitats installing nets and screens and dispensing what you like. The powder pronounces quinine, maybe quinyane. I'm not sure. It's just a medicine to treat malaria. Yeah, and to didn't really work, and malaria and yellow fever continue to run a rampant So the US decided to amp up their sanitation efforts and Gorgez believed quote the spread of civilization is supposed to bring with it not only good ruling and justice, but also increase health and happiness. Apart from this moral aspect, it seems obvious from a business point of view that the opening up of the resources of an unhealthy country will never be a full success until that country is rendered healthy. Wow. Yeah, needless to say it.

16:26 And we mentioned already that locals were considered unhealthy, and in turn this justified the displacement of locals living in tropical regions. A popular Western belief of the time was that white people were more suited to the tropics than black, brown, and indigenous people. That's so funny because the sun hates them. Okay, okay, yes, tell me, I'm like, okay, okay, you might think that, but go stand in the tropics. Go stand there, without sunscreen for five minutes, not under a tree, right, just like stand there in the middle of the sun. Yeah, we'll both stand there, yes, and then we'll see what happens. Yeah, yeah, all I need is five minutes. And who will come out with the beautiful tan? And he will come out dying?

17:16 Who's gonna come out like a fucking lobster? And who's gonna come out golden? Yeah, bronze, bronze, beautiful tone. Right, and then tell me who's better suited for the tropics? Okay, dumb, Oh my god. Anyway, Gorgas had a vision for the tropics which excluded the locals. Okay, okay, he once said, quote, within the next two or three centuries, tropical countries, which offer a much greater return for man's labor than the temperate zones, will be settled up by the white races, and that again the censers of wealth, civilization, and population will be in the tropics as they were in the dawn of man's history, rather than in the temperate zone as as present. So basically, he thought that white people originated in these regions of the world, but moved to coldrier climates because of the development of things like clothes and fire, and so it was white people's right to return to their homelands in the tropics. Wow, and this was a belief in the time. I didn't realize that until I was reading this article. It is so dumb, Like look at your skin, you need to go back to Europe, like you believed you're from here. Like I'm sorry, but your pasty skin and lack of vitamin de sas

18:49 otherwise you know, like yeah, you're that color because you're from England where there's no sun, like yeah majority of the time. Right likes ridiculous point, like I don't understand, Like no, no, look at anyone from this climate and look at you, what's what's there? And you think you're from here? Insane. So that's a little about about Gorgas. Okay, dumb ass beliefs, which he was not the only one to have, but right, dumb nonetheless, so dumb. Yeah, So back to the zone. The zone. Towns became segregated between the native sides and non native sides of town based on racial segregation, and this would later develop into silver role and gold role towns. Silver role being migrants and workers, natives of color people local people, and gold role being white people, white workers. Many zone mayors, even the white ones early on, came into conflicts with the ICC and defense of the towns and the natives over theiculous ICC standards, since many argued that these standards shouldn't be disruptive to locals who had been living there for years and year years right now, Okay, you hid your standards, but these people have been here forever, and so these standards shouldn't disrupt their way of life. Yeah, which I'm like, Okay, that's yeah, commendable. Many believe that the mayors fighting with

20:24 the ICC is what led to the dismantling of the municipalities with the replacement of the administrative districts. Yeah, like, well, look now you can't tell us nothing because now you can't find with us. Like we're just getting rid of you guys. Yeah. From thereon, Panamanians often fought with ICC officials over sanitation guidelines, while at the same time, many Panamanians were being displaced because of the canal construction. As a result of the displacement, lots of settlements popped up around the railroad line near the site of the canal construction, and the IC debated different ways of dealing with the settlements, some fearing that the settlements would become permanent. Others felt that the settlements should have been torn down to be made an example of, and that the people should settle somewhere hidden, like within the jungle, like so that they wouldn't be seen, which is how a lot of people fear about feel about the un house now. Oh yeah, yeah.

21:25 And then other ICC officials feared that they would have to compensate people living in settlements who would eventually have to be displaced again because of the ongoing construction. Sometimes the ICC find people living in settlements and sometimes they imprison them to deal with them again. They drew them away from their homes. And these people are trying to remain near to where they have always lived and they're being arrested for it or find which they may or may not be able to pay. Like, we don't know what these fines were. That's crazy, but that's typical, right, crazy behavior to go and do in someone else's country. Yeah.

22:07 Private homeowners also fought with the ICIC over the regulations because many of them had to rebuild or remodel to conform to ICC regulations, and a lot of people did, without knowing that eventually they would be asked to deconstruct their whole homes and carry them with them to build them somewhere else. So oh my yeah, I oh my god. One guy f A. Lynch who owned a furniture, hardware, carriage and harness store a lot of things in well, a lot of things into one store like a multi general story yes, yeah yeah, in Coloon City. He promised free legal advice for anyone being arrested for violenting sanitary regulations.

22:50 So he really hated the ICC. Wow, Okay, And more issues arose between locals and the ICC with the arrival of mosquito control gangs when gorgas organized workers to oil water depositories and destroy all types of water pools and ponds inside and outside of homes. So these workers were just walking around town destroying people's water, like how they store water, even like how the traditional way of throwing water. They would just and I would imagine that the traditional way of throwing water had some sort of workaround, like I'm sure because these people have been living here for ever with the metals, with the that they were not getting sick of, right right. Yeah, So anyway, there was a belief that clean water led to the breathing of mosquito, so then if they went and put oil in it, it would stop their breeding and whatnot. So this pissed off a lot of people. Yeah. Gorgas also had another goal which led to controversy, which was to screen all labors.

24:00 But even the ICC had issues with this because they're like, it's too expensive and unrealistic, so we're gonna have to pick and choose. Ultimately, only a small percentage of buildings were screened, and the decisions over the buildings that ended up being screened were influenced by racism and esthetic components. For example, in one case, there was a debate between ICC officials whether to screen a place called the Tivoli Hotel. Doctor Henry Rose Carter, who was the director of Hospitals and sometimes acted as sanitary officer over the ICC, decided against screening the Tavoli because, in his opinion, which was informed by popular beliefs at the time that we've talked about plenty your racist beliefs. So according to doctor Carter, the hotel was far enough in distance from infected natives and so screening oh my god, we laugh, because it's stupid.

25:00 It's horrifying. Yeah, oh my god. So he believed that this hotel was far enough from the dirty growth natives and because of that, creating wasn't necessary because he didn't want to ruin the beautiful Tivoli hotel. They shouldn't be disrupted, but the native fun distruct and destroy their houses and yeah, right, Yeah, these kinds of disagreements continued, and what resulted was the ICC creating sanitized spaces for white workers or gold roll right towns, and the ICC basically not caring about what the conditions of the workers of color spaces or silver town areas look like, and so they kind of just wrote those off as uncivilized and didn't do any work to help maintain them, regulate them, whatever. And they often referred to these areas as the bush, like the wild bush, and so they kind of perpetuated the wild right, wild jungle native belief of the time. Yeah, they made it that way, right, and so they perpetuated they made it that way, and then they made it worse by by like developing these areas like not the pretty such importance and not the rest. And then they're like, oh, look

26:32 at that side, like it's so gross. But it's like, which you made it this way? Yes, oh my god, yeah, and and can this not be applied into many places? Right? Yes? And eventually well, okay, first, these debates continued on and on about where to enforce regulations, fighting what the natives about, because it was it was like they they didn't do any work too, like create like I don't know, quote, sanitary buildings, but like in other ways they were enforcing different tenantation guidelines, right, like like the like the Gang of Mosquito whatever they were called. Right, So anyway, they continue like fighting with the locals, fighting with each other about what areas to focus on, what to regulate, what to not And eventually they were like, well fuck this, let's give up on these wild bush areas, like this is just a bunch of wild nobody lives here anyway, but of course there's people there. But because it was so neglected and they called it the bush. And mind you, there's a lot in the book rased about there wasn't wild bush, right, Like the people living there they did agriculture, they like, they did a lot, like they weren't just living in the wild. Of course not that's ridiculous. That's a ridiculous racist notion, right, Yeah, But to the ICC officials, because these areas were in their eyes, underdeveloped, uncared for

28:06 savage wild, then there felt no kind of way about depipulating it. Yeah. So my point being that these kind of issues whatever continued up until the depopulation order and contributed to the depopulation right right to them, it's like, well, no one lives there anyway, and it looks like trash because they made it that way. So now because of that, they can just like get rid of whatever's there, even though people were there and had been living there and we're trying their best trying to yeah, m hmmm. And so yeah, that continued up until the depopulation order of December nineteen twelve, and so that felt like a good place to stop so that we could get into the depopulation order and the process and the reactions from Pandemanians living in these one towns that they had to populate next time. Perfect. Yeah, wow, I didn't know that there was this. I'm very glad you're again. I said this every serious episode so far, but I'm glad that you're doing this because there's so much I just didn't know and there's so much more to know that I didn't touch on. But it's hard. I think a part of the reason I kept what's the word procrastinating on the on the notes because it's because, like I read this whole book, I highlighted so many things and I'm like, okay, but what there's so much like how do I Yeah, and that's my problem with the cesar Travis. Yeah, so

29:38 that's where I included too much. It's hard not to get lost in the sauce. Yeah, and I say it, and we ended up with one hour, five part episodes on yeah. Yeah, and so yeah, there's a lot of not including. There's a lot to learn and then talk about with this topic. But yeah, yeah, I feel like it's time to get in to eat depopulation. Yes, And that's really what I wanted to get into. And then I learned all this other stuff and I'm like, well, we needed to know interesting. Yeah yeah, and it's just gross because like we of course can never escape the racism and eugenics of the United States, but it's behind so many things that I didn't know about before, right, It's in everything. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's insidious. Yes, that's the word ah depressing. Yeah, I did want to share a update. Oh so here's our bullshit segment. Because the self Durian National Assembly has ratified a reform that allows the boogolar regime to change the self during constlution at will.

30:55 And if that does not scream dictadership than anything else has and his dictatorship, then this should this should be ringing alarm bells. So on April twenty four, twenty twenty four, the southa Durian National Assembly controlled and controlled by Nuovacidas, but it was sixty six votes in favor of reforming Article two hundred forty eight of the South Durian Constitution at the time. Article two forty eight stated later for Madesta Constitucion Assembly Leva Connell de lamitad masuno delos. Well, okay, I'll just been in English, because that's a lot to Any reform to this constitution shall be agreed upon by the National Assembly with the vote of half of the elected officials plus one, and for such a reform to be decreed, it must be ratified by the following National Assembly with two thirds vote of the elected officials. So it's like a mechanism of checks and balances designed to protect the democratic process and the rights of citizens of Salvalor by preventing any majority party from making rapid and unilateral changes to the constitution and forestalling the vote unchanges to the Constitution until the following democratically elected National Assembly allows enough time for opposition parties to be elected and provide challenges to said constitutional reforms. So it's a checks and balance this thing, so that people can't just do whatever they want. That's what it's supposed to be. But the Article two Entred forty eight, approved in twenty twenty four says for such a reform to be decreed, it

32:28 must be ratified by the following National Assembly with a two thors vote of elected officials or by the same National Assembly with the vote of three fourths of elected officials. And so if we look at these officials the National Assembly, the members aligned with the Nova EVAs party Bucales party is sixty seven of eighty four members, while the opposition parties which includes fml fmlyn Arena and Vamos and another one called No Temple, they only make up seventeen out of the eighty four in this National Assembly. And so for most of the time after the this was all made after the peace Accords. The salutary National Assembly was composed of eighty four deputies representing two hundred sixty two municipalities.

33:22 Then in June twenty twenty three they approved this restructuring, which is what I just described. So then it goes from the two hundred and sixty two municipalities down to forty four one. That number. Yeah, it's like the concentration of power to a max is already concentrating. Like we've been talking about him concentrating power since he was elected and president, right, like starting with the the re election which again was illegal against the constitution, and then with the concentrating his power by basically dismantling the check of Ba bolences or whatever. Yeah, with the first the judge the judiciary system of San Ba Lord. And now this because now the elected the number of those deputies that I said, the eighty four has gone down to sixty. Yeah.

34:14 And so the new and reorganized National Assembly for twenty twenty four to twenty twenty seven began on May first, twenty twenty four, and so now there's a redlining of the municipalities. Uh, there's a reduction of elected deputies so now there's only three deputies that represent opposition party three deputies. All the other members are Nuevas Eveias members. On April twenty nine, twenty twenty four, that was the last day it had the eighty four member legislative body. The National Assembly controlled by Nuevasidas approved the reform to Article two hundred and forty eight with sixty six votes in favor, sixteen were in opposition. On January twenty nine, twenty twenty five, this reform was of phicial ratified. So all that is required now to make a change to the south during constitution is a three fourths majority vote from the firm elected officials present during a session. So that's forty five out of sixty votes. With fifty seven members of the assembly part of Buokalist party, does that make sense? Is that?

35:23 Do I need to clarify what this means? Actually? Yes, okay, that's way. So there's sixty members of this assembly now right now they only need three fourths majority to make changes to the constitution. Three fourths is forty five out of sixty votes. But there's fifty seven members of Booklist party in this assembly, they're always going to have the majority they're always going to have it. There's only three members of opposition price, so that's yeah, that forty five of the sixty is always going to be met. Wow mm hmm. And shout out to Dichos de Uno. We've shout out this Instagram page so much, very informative. That's where this information is because it was so explained so well better than I could have ever explained it. And I will include it in the show notes. But this is an excellent place to keep up with Salvadoran news.

36:21 Yeah and yeah, that's honestly probably the worst booklet of dates because now now you can just do whatever the fuck he wants. And that's scary. That's that's very scary. Also, sorry, because this is actually the last minute add on because we had we didn't record last week. Right. He also has an agreement. Okay, well, this is I was looking for because I remember I saw a post about that and then I couldn't find it. So that's a white explain the five. This is at the top of my nugget because I'm not looking up the well, I couldn't find whatever posts I had about it. So yeah, so Bukele has made an agreement with Trump to create become a third stop for deportees. So deportees that won't be accepted or maybe it's too difficult whatever to take them back to their original countries, they're going to be sent to this third stop, which is where they're going to be in a camp, a prison where they're gonna be forced to work. And so this is a ohsaat a concentration camp. Yes, yes, and this is an agreement between these two countries. So yeah, and if anything, let's remember that the majority of migrants seeking asylum are Central Americans.

37:46 They're not Mexican, these things. They are Central Americans, they are Haitians, they are from Caribbean places. So these the all of them are going to be sent to prison liver prison camps, yeah, where they will be enslaves. Essentially. There's no there's no other way around it, no other way too, there's no right way to describe it, because that's what it is. Yeah, and so yeah, this is an agreement. So we'll see how that goes. Because I believe this, this still has to be built. This, yeah, it's not. I was trying to find the post because I remember in the comments people are being dumb as they always are about. They're like, oh, could you do this?

38:32 I thought you were good? And I'm like, what might that? I thought you were like, God, would you think that? Oh my god, he's never always think about it? Okay? Oh yeah, it says Trump and Buckle, what's the pcpment for detention movement? Okay, and there's a video about it. Oh. I was hoping there was like a paragraph, but yeah, it was just dumb. Okay. This is one of the dumbass comments. Plan always do the best for his people. Been Yeah, and Anai Bule implemented the best dumb dumb Oh my god. And then someone else. I don't know. I like you, my guy, but I don't know about this. Oh my you like it? You like how? Oh my god?

39:15 This is not surprising. This is typical boer behavior. Yeah, and I think for those of us that have always known this, it's not a surprise. It's just the next step. Here's another dumb one. Bukla needs to stop being a fanboy and actually help his people out. Hasn't raised the minimum wage in four years and everything has risen in price, yet he and his family have acquire so much lanently It's like dumb and right at the same time because Okay, they're recognizing that he's no longer no longer as it never was. But they think he's doing this because he's a fanboy. But no, this is who he is, like Trump, this is who he is. He's not a fan bow, he is like a peer yeah Trump, Yeah, that's why that they're both dumb as, like greedy motherfuckers. Yeah uh, and he's never had the interest of his how oderent people.

40:01 It's just more money, just in concentrating power and getting yeah money, yeah, yeah, just like it's bitcoin bullshit. Yeah. And it's like, listen to our episodes, come on, it's all there from when he was a governor, mayor whatever he was. Yep, it's always good and everyone better explained and more coherent than listen to what was a Lilo series on Oh yeah longer, Yes, excellent. Actually that's a better yeah, so so well made. Yeah, so that's the better one to listen to. But if you want it to be like tietment and learning at the same time about the corrupt things, then yeah, and then us. But yeah, I mean it's always been there, it's always been this way, and some people just they see it too late, you know, Yeah, and some people just still don't see it. I want to say, like better late than ever, but you know, I don't know. I want to believe that you want to to. I don't know if I can, but I want too. Yeah, the cynic I yeah, sorry fun. Yeah. Also, I saw just now a post about so there's a lot of protests today. Yeah, we talked a little bit on Patreon and you'll listen to us. Carmen went to a protest in Modesto and that's over on Patreon. But I saw that in how someone in Texas. I already really lost the page. But there's been a protest and power arrest, Like I showed up and did a raid at the fucking protest and in Texas better forgot what

41:33 part of text is already. I hope that citizens let their undocumented member community members run away and let themselves get detained, because even though you'll detained, eventually you will be it's better. Yeah, it's better. Yeah, but I'm not surprised. That's how they killed the two thousand and six movements. So yeah, I remember, And if you want to learn more about that, we have an episode about that. We do. Yeah, I don't know, there's just like it's like it's a of course everyone knows this. Everyone feels say, it's a heavy time right now. But I think that a lot of it is by design, right, like the overwhelm, like you're meant to feel overwhelmed and that you can give up. Yeah, And I don't know. There's so much that there's always been, but even more now, right, there's so much lies, propaganda, makes information being spread by Trump and his supporters, And I don't know, like I feel like our part in it is like a part of it is this podcast. Yeah, Yeah, And so that I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about Porcelina Gomez. My god, you know, I honestly, this is one issue she has always been outspoken about because she has set up organizations to like donate money instead of just making a movie where she made money off the movie and maybe the people in the movie didn't, yeah,

43:05 but she had to throw awareness they didn't make money or is that yeah, I've rather it. When the movie came out, I wasn't sure because I didn't even watch it. I didn't see hard proof of it. I just saw mentions of it. But she has always spoken about this. This is not new and so I'm not surprised she made a video like this and to me, we're all crying. That's what I was gonna say. I feel like I of course like blah blah blah. We don't always want to be defending millionaires blah blah blah. Okay, whatever, that's besides the point. Not Selena apologists. Okay, she has her issues. I'm not kidding. No, we went hard on her and people came for us when we talked about her on our short lived Cheese My podcast, did we I don't remember talking about her wow, when she was with when she first announced her relationship and then she it's been all weird on Instagram. H I don't remember that this was on what was it called? It was like chronically online, I don't I only remember the only opinion I remember about that is how ugly Benny Blanco is. But hey, we wehow our taste and you know, oh you are still they seem to be. I am, I am. I am a fan of her makeup. I have been a fan of her music before. I like, yeah, that's true anyway, right, Okay, but that's the point. My point was that you know,

44:36 people were making fun of her because she was crying, and yes, she made her about herself, but at the same time, we're all crying, and it's a cringey to records of crying. Sure, whatever, but I think that it's okay to be emotional about this. I think that it's okay to cry. And I think that when we're making fun of people for their empathy, I think that makes us like the right because no, yeah, like these are the people. And you know what bugged me the boat. One of the things that bugged me the most was that this fucking dumb bitch called Alibeth's Duckley or Sucky whatever the fuck your last name is. She's like a right wing propaganda person, commentator. She has a podcast. She puts out a million fucking videos and podcast episodes the day.

45:18 Even though she pretends to be all about traditional housewife. Clearly you're working twenty four to seven because you're online twenty four seven. Yeah. Selena Gomes posted her video immediately Alibeth's Duckley posts her respons video, and I don't know if it's immediately, I just know it probably was. If you watch Funny Fridays, you'll know who she is, Oh, she's this rat looking blonde girl. No, it's coming to me very very rat like. And again these people will be like, don't attack looks. It's because you're not smart. That's when you attack her looks. I don't care. I don't care. No, we don't. Yeah, you're ugly and the hate is on your face and I don't care your shows on the outside. Yes, and saw this dumb it is like right away in response to Selena's video, she's all like, you're wrong, they're attacking, they're they're detaining criminals. False, not true, false, we know that's true. That a lie.

46:13 And this is the thing that bugs me about Like, Okay, I saw so many videos making fun of Selena saying, oh, but what are you doing with your money? Not one video calling out this these lies. Yeah, yeah, like this is propaganda. This is a lie. We have already seen and we have known for a long time the ICE does not only detain criminals. If that was the case, why would they be raiding schools. Why would they be trying to get permission to enter schools and hospitals? Right? And and it's because by definition, they have made being undocumented at crime. That's why they get to say, oh, yeah, criminals, right, they're they're arresting drug dealers and whatever, like, no, they're not.

46:54 And then so on top of this, dumb bitches stupid lies, which are lies, like it's not true. And then on top of that, this is a person who wrote a book called something about the sin of empathy, toxic empathy, Like, these are people that if you empathy as a sin, and that's why they hated the message from that one was because I forget religious titles. Yes to her, her message to them, her message of beautiful message was toxic empathy. Empathy is a sin. Jesus would never do this. First of all, wrong with you, I know. And sometime I'm saying, like, I don't want us to lose our empathy, right, because that makes us like them. And the minute that you lose your empathy, like that's what leads to humanization. And yes, calling people ugly and whatever that's humanizing. You don't care.

47:58 I know I'm being conflicting here, I don't care. That doesn't matter. But like the fact that they dehumanize us is how they can do all these things to us, right, yeah, And this is akin to every or comparable the same. I don't know to every Huban tragedy or this you know that's been perpetrated by people, it's because they don't view those they are doing this too as people, Right, what were you gonna say? But also on top of that, then the White House of Sleida Gomez, who's half white, and then their response to video, I'm like, when when have we seen a official government account attack a celebrity like this? Yeah? Like these are yeah, worse time than before, Like I true, this have we really haven't? This is actually unprecedented for once in response they like clips Lena video and they they were like, oh, oh Selina the defense criminals tell that to these mothers of victims of criminals, the illegals murder their daughters like first of an And also the passage of the Lake and Riley Act has made everything so much worse, because what about what about when Marcella Lucero who was attacked by a bunch of white teens and one black kid and that was a literal hate crime. There was no Act sign after his name,

49:30 and then things like that kept happening, but like, oh, we get one person and now there's an act that allows them to detain someone suspected, not even like proven to be guilty. So it's a nightmare. But all of this, all of this is connected. It's fascist behavior, like this is like dictators like let's say Pinochet, who during the they did national TV talk shit about their dissentant descenders, descendants whatever the word is, not descendants, dissidents. Thank you.

50:10 I'm sick again. I'm sick. I'm just sick baby. Oh well, like we don't have the folksinger who was killed, right, And I know, like it's not the same because we're talking about a response, but things don't happen like things are illolated that right, right, Yeah, because we did see them doing this in TV shows on doing the Pinochet regime. Yeah. So and this is a social media post clipping a woman crying like this is insane, This is insane times. Yeah, And I personally didn't see anything wrong with her video either when I guess, like, yeah, she could be donating or creating a nonprofit organization, you know. But again, this is an issue she has always been out spoken about, not about her love for Israel and her support for Zionism right Palestine, None of that she's ever talked about but immigration she always has, so you can't you can't say she hasn't. Yeah, And I don't know, it just it feels I don't even know what the word is.

51:14 I don't know. We are a strange feeling seeing all this yeah go down and I don't like it one bit. And that's why I wanted to talk about it. Yeah, or are we coming to ana gone? If you wanted to say something, no, I was gonna say basically something just wrapping up. But we did. This is something we had always wanted to do with Patreon, and we just kept like, I don't know, not starting the Patreon and then forgetting me is what I mean by we but using our Patreon funds combined with the spookytails because together it's more, Yeah, but using our funds to donate to causes, you know, And so that's what we're gonna do. They're almost always going to be Latin American Latino immigrant related, because that's yeah. So the first one is a border Angels does this water drop off in the desert for people, and they need funds to help send people out to leave the water there for people. So I think that's gonna be our first one. Either that or there's a DACA fund that Batrio Drive Clothing runs where they pay for someone's DACA to be renewed. So one of the two is gonna be the first one. And this isn't to say we're picking one that's better. We're just gonna go like one, then another, then another, you know what I mean. So if there's any organizations that you know of that you want us to add to our list of places we're going to be donating to, then you know, let us know. And if you want to help us

52:46 do this, one you could donate directly, or two you can help pay me for my work is editing and Carmen for her research. Yeah, this really make thirty dollars on this one, no worries. But if you want to help us do that, then join the Patreon and you know, let us know what you want us to donate to. So yeah, that's what I wanted to say. All right, So I guess this breexist to the end of the episode, rage with us, but also we hope that this was one least studia unknown for you guys. Bye bye,