Feb. 6, 2025

A Brief History of the Panama Canal Zone (Part Three)

A Brief History of the Panama Canal Zone (Part Three)

The Panama Canal is now controlled by Panama, but before that, France and then the United Stated coveted and gained control of the zone, to develop the canal. Many lives were lost during the development of the canal, and many were displaced for the...

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The Panama Canal is now controlled by Panama, but before that, France and then the United Stated coveted and gained control of the zone, to develop the canal. Many lives were lost during the development of the canal, and many were displaced for the creation of the canal. The role of Panama in its own development is often forgotten or minimized.

In Part three, Carmen tells Cristina about how the ICC, Robert Tomes, Dr. William Gorgas and other factors all worked together to create a separation between locals and Americans in the Panama Canal Zone. Difference that were then used to justify the depopulation of Panamian towns in the Zone.

If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/

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Music Credit: Hustlin (Instrumental) by Neffex

Sources:

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/how-racism-and-tropical-medicine-built-panama-canal/2024-02
Erased: The Untold Story of the Panama Canal by Marixa Lasso

Mentioned during the Bukele update segment: @dichosdeunbicho on Instagram/Threads

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support.

WEBVTT

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Hi, everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is

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Estodia's Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin American history.

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Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption,

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and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance,

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power and community. And sorry about last week there was

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a new episode because I was behind on my notes.

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But we are back today, BB and we we're continuing

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our topic of the Panama Canal. So shall we get

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into it? Do you have anything you want to talk

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about before? No? No, do you have a little reminder

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of where we were? Cool? Then? No, I'm good, Okay, cool.

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So last episode we talked about the underlying eugenus and

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colonial beliefs behind the US obtaining and building the Panama Canal,

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and today we'll be talking more about the three main

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periods of the development of the canal from nineteen oh

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four to nineteen fifteen, which ultimately ended in the depopulation

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of the zone towns. And that's kind of what I

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left off at saying last time to about these three periods. Yes, anyway,

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let's get into it. So, between nineteen oh four and

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nineteen oh seven, many zone towns went from being Panamanian

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municipalities to American municipalities. Some US officials believed that they

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could create a quote model of American government in the

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heart of Central America as an object lesson to South

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and Central American republics. Okay, but again, right, think that's

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not surprising at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And there'll be

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a lot of that today. So this goes back to

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the racisabilize of the US that won republics in Latin

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America needed lessons from them because they're so stupid right

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about how to run their governments. And two, that their

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systems of government were not modern. And let's remind yourselves

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that many Latin American countries were already republics for a

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longer time than the US, and that they outlawed slavery

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way before the US, which again, like we said last episode,

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is the first sign of a humane and respectful society, right,

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And they also adopted manhood suffrage way before the US,

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and still the US believed themselves to be more modern.

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The second chairman of the Isthmian Canal Commission or the ICC,

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and this again reminder, was the American Administration Commission that

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oversaw the construction of the Panama Canal. So the chairman

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of the ICC, Theodore P. Sean and anyone with that

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name Theodore is a red flag, right, Yes, of course

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Theodore Roosevelt. Yes, he said that the US had to

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bring a modern development into existence in a tropical wilderness

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afflicted by deadly fews and pestilents, and a practically uninhabitable area.

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And he was referring to Panama. Okay, mind you, people

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have been living there forever. People have been habitating here. Yeah,

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people areats there, are inhabitants and have been for years. Yeah.

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And the transition period from Panamanian municipalities under the control

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of Colombia to US municipalities was initially messy and raised

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in many questions like what would happened to pending lawsuits

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and what town residents participate in Panama's elections. The first

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governors of the Zone had experienced in colonization since they

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had governed and worked in Puerto Rico, Cuba, and the

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Philippines already, like, oh, look at that colonizing there. Yeah. Wow.

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In total, five American municipalities were created in the Zone area,

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these being Gorgona, Buenavista and Peralo and Conne and Crystobal,

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and three of these already had existed under Columbia, and

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these were Goguana, Bonavista, and Perlor. And initially, the US

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recognized the temporary authority of the zone mayors and the

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ICC gave a Zone municipalities extensive rights like for example,

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in August nineteen oh four, the zone municipalities had rights

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to seize private property for public utility, which was similar

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to the rights of the zone government, so not any

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different right. A month later, the September nineteen oh four

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Municipal Government Act was enacted, and this showed that early

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on that initially the ICC officials dot these towns would

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be populated by both Panamanians and US citizens and both

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yeah and both Spanish and English would be the official languages. Okay,

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so their initial intent was not to depopulate all the No,

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not in the beginning, right. The new laws required all

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municipal officers to be able to intelligently speak, read, and

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write the Spanish or English language, to be at least

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twenty five years old and resident of the municipality. The

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laws also showed that the ICC initially planned for the

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Zone towns to be pretty much the same as other

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Panamanian towns, since the Act described licensing and taxing around cockfighting, restaurants, katina's,

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lodging houses, public dance houses, and more kinds of private businesses.

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And of course this wouldn't last. Eventually these towns would

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become company towns, American towns within Panama in the zone

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where there was no alcohol, no bars, fume. Yeah, yeah,

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basically Leyman Puritan, Yeah, very purtin, like you know how

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Americans can get yeah, what their fucking fake morals, Like, oh,

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alcohol is wrong, but enslaving someone is right exactly. So,

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like I mentioned before, there were some legal questions about

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jurisdiction issues. The Pandemanian Secondary of State domas Arias wanted

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the new zone courts to handle all pending in new

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legal cases from the zone towns, and many judges did,

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but others didn't agree. In one instance, a judge refused

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to touch a case until he received fur their clarification,

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and this case ended up with Panama's Attorney General, who

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was supposed to provide clarification, and the Attorney General argued

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that Panama had not lost jurisdiction over court cases and

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the US only had jurisdiction over matters relating to the canal,

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which was similar to what we talked about last time

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with the port. The fight about the ports, Yes, and

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this case went all the way to Banama Supreme Court,

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but they refused to make a decision, saying it was

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an issue for the Ministry of Foreign Relations, and ultimately

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the Ministry of Foreign Relations held the view that the

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nineteen o three treaty restricted the US to the judicial

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rights over the Zone Panama gave the US jurisdiction only

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over daily issues that might arise from the development of

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the canal, and the end this wouldn't even matter because

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these municipalities were disbanded and the towns eventually depopulated, and

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the US came to roll over the zone and they

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just did whatever they wanted until I think the seventies

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or sixties, which I mean we'll get into at the end.

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I'll be probably the last seventies, I think, but yeah, yeah,

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I think it was the seventies. Other issues had to

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do with electoral rights of Panamanians living in Zone towns.

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Before the US took over the control of the zone,

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several municipal districts located in Gorgona and Berralo Buenavisa and

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Gatun used to participate in national elections, but now that

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the residents found themselves within the US territory, things changed.

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Now the Zone government appointed the Alcaldes and Pannamanians could

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only exercise their political rights outside of the zone. Wow,

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in municipalities outside of the zone municipal How many times

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did I say this? Stand word and areas outside of

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the zone, municipal politics were important and outside of the

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zone Pandemanians had the right to elect their municipal council.

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So while the US and the Zone officials were purporting

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to bring modern politics to Panama, they actually caused Panamanians

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within the zone to lose their electoral rights. When the

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municipalities took away, they took away their political rights. Yeah,

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because these municipalities became administrative districts with the i c

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C electing all the not even electing, like just appointing,

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appointing authorities and all that. Yeah. Of course they did though,

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right like and their wish to supposedly bring modern government

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to this place that already had governments and systems. But

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because they're dumb and not white, because they think they

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know better, Yeah, they took away things that they had

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already been doing right, good old USA, Yes, classic USA move.

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And this brings us to the ICC and the Zones

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Sanitation era. Between nineteen oh four and nineteen twelve, the

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ICC tried to regulate and organize the zone and this

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included laying out street lines and sidewalks, building new housing

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due to the huge amount of workers needed for the

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development of the canal, and of course, in the authorities view,

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bringing sanitation to the tropics. In early health report said quote,

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the Isthmus of Panama has for years been known as

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the filthiest and unhealthiest place on earth. Wow, the way

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that I dropped my job when I wear that. Yeah, Like,

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how can you refer to a place like this? But

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of course of course they did. Yeah. It reminds me

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of Trump's stupid ass quote when you called Garbageland or something. Yeah,

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a floating in garbage. Oh that was the comedian Han,

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not Trump. That was a comedian, but back comedian, a

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right quote comedian. Uh No, back in in Trump's first

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presidency when he was calling like while He's like saying, like, oh,

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why don't they send people from these countries instead of

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these trash countries? And in referring to these shithole countries, right,

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that's what he said. Yeah, yeah, so it's very very

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akin to that. Yeah, and it just shows you that

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these these beliefs, they don't die, they just grow. Yeah. Yeah.

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Doctor whim Gorgis was in charge of sanitation and he

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was considered a pioneer in mosquito research and credited as

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the person who eradicated yellow fever in Havana, Goba. The

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icy Cs, I just assume people knew where that is,

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just in case I don't know. I don't know, I

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don't know know. The ic ces sent decision strategy came

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from a combination of nineteenth century miasthma theories about swamps

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and tropical mud and the then newer grum theory and

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the Lady's discoveries about the role of mosquitoes in the

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transmission of malaria and yellow fever. Just as a reminder

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that my asthma theory was the belief that diseases were

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caused by a poisonous form of air called my asthma,

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and so many believe that disease in Banama was caused

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by the bad fumes coming from tropical swamps, mud and filth,

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which of course, now we know that stupid. Yeah, now

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we know those liked like, yeah, it looks some made

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up shit, you know, like the made up ship by

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white people. Yeah, some guy named Robert Tomes. And the

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reason I wrote some guys because like I read in

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the book about whatever his role was, and then I

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didn't like mark that spot. So so it's gone. So

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now I don't know. Yeah some guy, Yeah, some guy.

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I don't know. I don't Robert. He described the city

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of Cologne as a dirty and unsanitary settlement over marshy

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pools corrupt with decaine matter. So that was the kind

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of thought you know that that was around back then. Yeah,

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dumb again. Yeah. So because of these theories and science,

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the ICC thought it was important to make sure there

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was enough distance between buildings, that houses had to be

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three feet above the ground and distant enough from mud,

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and that American buildings had to be a certain distance

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between local or native buildings, that distance being a thousand feet. Wow.

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And to no one's surprise, this led to distinctions between

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Americans and natives and only led to greater separation. So essentially,

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segregation is what happened. Right, Oh my god, look at

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them going to a country that's not theirs and then

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segregating the locals. What a surprise. Yeah, yeah, al turnives

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developments that we did not foresee. I didn't see that coming. Yeah,

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we didn't. Yeah. This practice of separating housing from natives

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or indigenous people, locals right to the area, and colonizers

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was not new, and it went back to the days

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of the British colonies in Asia and Africa, who were

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considered it essential to separate native neighborhoods from white neighborhoods

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in order to save white colonials from contagious diseases. The ICC,

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like the British colonizers, referred to all kinds of Panamanian

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housing as huts, even when local housing was constructed in

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similar ways to like America, even though it looks almost

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the same, and it was like yes, yeah, yeah, God,

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And this is important to know because by referring to

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all housing as huts, then that justified their practices as saying, oh,

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these are primitive, gross discussing houses that we can't be

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near too. Yeah yeah, And it also justified their view

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that the natives and locals were a part of the

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disease tropical landscape, meaning like they viewed the natives, the

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indigenous people of the area of Panama, the same way

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they viewed the gross, dirty mud. Yeah right, like as

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vectors of disease. There's no fixings. They are dirty and gross,

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just like this dirty, gross swamp. And they are also

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spreading disease just like they're the problem. Yeaeah they not us,

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they right, And this led to racialized health practices, which

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was so widespread. They viewed dirty Mexicans in the United

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States the same as the dirty Panamanians and the Panama

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Canal zone. Right, And let's talk a bit about doctor

218
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William Gorgius since I mentioned him but didn't really describe

219
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him as much. I mean, we're gonna talk about the

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rice on the behind his work more than actually his work,

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because you know that's more important. Yes, Gorgaz described his

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work in Latin America as quote the conquest of the

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tropics for the white race. Okay, okay, all of that wrong?

224
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Oh my god, wow, you know, William, what the fuck? Gourias,

225
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Come on, Gourias, we need to talk. Goryas planned to

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manage or eradicate malaria and yellow fever involved destroying mosquito

227
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breeding habitats installing nets and screens and dispensing what you like.

228
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The powder pronounces quinine, maybe quinyane. I'm not sure. It's

229
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just a medicine to treat malaria. Yeah, and to didn't

230
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really work, and malaria and yellow fever continue to run

231
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a rampant So the US decided to amp up their

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sanitation efforts and Gorgez believed quote the spread of civilization

233
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is supposed to bring with it not only good ruling

234
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and justice, but also increase health and happiness. Apart from

235
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this moral aspect, it seems obvious from a business point

236
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of view that the opening up of the resources of

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an unhealthy country will never be a full success until

238
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that country is rendered healthy. Wow. Yeah, needless to say it.

239
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And we mentioned already that locals were considered unhealthy, and

240
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in turn this justified the displacement of locals living in

241
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tropical regions. A popular Western belief of the time was

242
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that white people were more suited to the tropics than black, brown,

243
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and indigenous people. That's so funny because the sun hates them. Okay, okay, yes,

244
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tell me, I'm like, okay, okay, you might think that,

245
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but go stand in the tropics. Go stand there, without

246
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sunscreen for five minutes, not under a tree, right, just

247
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like stand there in the middle of the sun. Yeah,

248
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we'll both stand there, yes, and then we'll see what happens. Yeah, yeah,

249
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all I need is five minutes. And who will come

250
00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:15.680
out with the beautiful tan? And he will come out dying?

251
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Who's gonna come out like a fucking lobster? And who's

252
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gonna come out golden? Yeah, bronze, bronze, beautiful tone. Right,

253
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and then tell me who's better suited for the tropics? Okay, dumb,

254
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Oh my god. Anyway, Gorgas had a vision for the

255
00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:46.279
tropics which excluded the locals. Okay, okay, he once said, quote,

256
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within the next two or three centuries, tropical countries, which

257
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offer a much greater return for man's labor than the

258
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.200
temperate zones, will be settled up by the white races,

259
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and that again the censers of wealth, civilization, and population

260
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will be in the tropics as they were in the

261
00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:10.119
dawn of man's history, rather than in the temperate zone

262
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as as present. So basically, he thought that white people

263
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originated in these regions of the world, but moved to

264
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coldrier climates because of the development of things like clothes

265
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.440
and fire, and so it was white people's right to

266
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return to their homelands in the tropics. Wow, and this

267
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was a belief in the time. I didn't realize that

268
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.359
until I was reading this article. It is so dumb,

269
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:36.160
Like look at your skin, you need to go back

270
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:44.680
to Europe, like you believed you're from here. Like I'm sorry,

271
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but your pasty skin and lack of vitamin de sas

272
00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.039
otherwise you know, like yeah, you're that color because you're

273
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:57.240
from England where there's no sun, like yeah majority of

274
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the time. Right likes ridiculous point, like I don't understand,

275
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:06.000
Like no, no, look at anyone from this climate and

276
00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:09.559
look at you, what's what's there? And you think you're

277
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from here? Insane. So that's a little about about Gorgas. Okay,

278
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:19.119
dumb ass beliefs, which he was not the only one

279
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:23.839
to have, but right, dumb nonetheless, so dumb. Yeah, So

280
00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:28.480
back to the zone. The zone. Towns became segregated between

281
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:32.079
the native sides and non native sides of town based

282
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.519
on racial segregation, and this would later develop into silver

283
00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:42.839
role and gold role towns. Silver role being migrants and workers,

284
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:47.359
natives of color people local people, and gold role being

285
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:53.440
white people, white workers. Many zone mayors, even the white

286
00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:56.880
ones early on, came into conflicts with the ICC and

287
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:01.480
defense of the towns and the natives over theiculous ICC standards,

288
00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:05.640
since many argued that these standards shouldn't be disruptive to

289
00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:08.119
locals who had been living there for years and year

290
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:10.680
years right now, Okay, you hid your standards, but these

291
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:14.599
people have been here forever, and so these standards shouldn't

292
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.039
disrupt their way of life. Yeah, which I'm like, Okay,

293
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:24.599
that's yeah, commendable. Many believe that the mayors fighting with

294
00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.640
the ICC is what led to the dismantling of the

295
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:32.720
municipalities with the replacement of the administrative districts. Yeah, like, well,

296
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:34.799
look now you can't tell us nothing because now you

297
00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:36.880
can't find with us. Like we're just getting rid of

298
00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:42.319
you guys. Yeah. From thereon, Panamanians often fought with ICC

299
00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:47.200
officials over sanitation guidelines, while at the same time, many

300
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:51.440
Panamanians were being displaced because of the canal construction. As

301
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.960
a result of the displacement, lots of settlements popped up

302
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:58.599
around the railroad line near the site of the canal construction,

303
00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:02.480
and the IC debated different ways of dealing with the settlements,

304
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.559
some fearing that the settlements would become permanent. Others felt

305
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:09.640
that the settlements should have been torn down to be

306
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:13.279
made an example of, and that the people should settle

307
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.799
somewhere hidden, like within the jungle, like so that they

308
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:19.720
wouldn't be seen, which is how a lot of people

309
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:23.640
fear about feel about the un house now. Oh yeah, yeah.

310
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.759
And then other ICC officials feared that they would have

311
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:31.079
to compensate people living in settlements who would eventually have

312
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:35.039
to be displaced again because of the ongoing construction. Sometimes

313
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.559
the ICC find people living in settlements and sometimes they

314
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.279
imprison them to deal with them again. They drew them

315
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:45.359
away from their homes. And these people are trying to

316
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.039
remain near to where they have always lived and they're

317
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:54.319
being arrested for it or find which they may or

318
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:55.960
may not be able to pay. Like, we don't know

319
00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.200
what these fines were. That's crazy, but that's typical, right,

320
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.480
crazy behavior to go and do in someone else's country. Yeah.

321
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.400
Private homeowners also fought with the ICIC over the regulations

322
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:14.200
because many of them had to rebuild or remodel to

323
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:18.640
conform to ICC regulations, and a lot of people did,

324
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.720
without knowing that eventually they would be asked to deconstruct

325
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:25.240
their whole homes and carry them with them to build

326
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:29.200
them somewhere else. So oh my yeah, I oh my god.

327
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:33.880
One guy f A. Lynch who owned a furniture, hardware,

328
00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:38.039
carriage and harness store a lot of things in well,

329
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.759
a lot of things into one store like a multi

330
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:46.599
general story yes, yeah yeah, in Coloon City. He promised

331
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:50.720
free legal advice for anyone being arrested for violenting sanitary regulations.

332
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:54.839
So he really hated the ICC. Wow, Okay, And more

333
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.759
issues arose between locals and the ICC with the arrival

334
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:04.799
of mosquito control gangs when gorgas organized workers to oil

335
00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:09.200
water depositories and destroy all types of water pools and

336
00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:14.960
ponds inside and outside of homes. So these workers were

337
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:19.759
just walking around town destroying people's water, like how they

338
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:23.079
store water, even like how the traditional way of throwing water.

339
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.319
They would just and I would imagine that the traditional

340
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.720
way of throwing water had some sort of workaround, like

341
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:31.400
I'm sure because these people have been living here for

342
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:36.079
ever with the metals, with the that they were not

343
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.039
getting sick of, right right. Yeah, So anyway, there was

344
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:46.240
a belief that clean water led to the breathing of mosquito,

345
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:47.839
so then if they went and put oil in it,

346
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.079
it would stop their breeding and whatnot. So this pissed

347
00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:55.400
off a lot of people. Yeah. Gorgas also had another

348
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:59.720
goal which led to controversy, which was to screen all labors.

349
00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:03.319
But even the ICC had issues with this because they're like,

350
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:05.839
it's too expensive and unrealistic, so we're gonna have to

351
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:11.039
pick and choose. Ultimately, only a small percentage of buildings

352
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.640
were screened, and the decisions over the buildings that ended

353
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:21.839
up being screened were influenced by racism and esthetic components.

354
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:26.240
For example, in one case, there was a debate between

355
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:31.680
ICC officials whether to screen a place called the Tivoli Hotel.

356
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:35.599
Doctor Henry Rose Carter, who was the director of Hospitals

357
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:39.680
and sometimes acted as sanitary officer over the ICC, decided

358
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:43.960
against screening the Tavoli because, in his opinion, which was

359
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.319
informed by popular beliefs at the time that we've talked

360
00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:50.920
about plenty your racist beliefs. So according to doctor Carter,

361
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.319
the hotel was far enough in distance from infected natives

362
00:24:54.759 --> 00:24:59.759
and so screening oh my god, we laugh, because it's stupid.

363
00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:04.279
It's horrifying. Yeah, oh my god. So he believed that

364
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:08.960
this hotel was far enough from the dirty growth natives

365
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:13.920
and because of that, creating wasn't necessary because he didn't

366
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:18.400
want to ruin the beautiful Tivoli hotel. They shouldn't be disrupted,

367
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:25.920
but the native fun distruct and destroy their houses and yeah, right, Yeah,

368
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:32.640
these kinds of disagreements continued, and what resulted was the

369
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:37.680
ICC creating sanitized spaces for white workers or gold roll

370
00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:44.519
right towns, and the ICC basically not caring about what

371
00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:51.160
the conditions of the workers of color spaces or silver

372
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.000
town areas look like, and so they kind of just

373
00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:59.319
wrote those off as uncivilized and didn't do any work

374
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:04.640
to help maintain them, regulate them, whatever. And they often

375
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:07.440
referred to these areas as the bush, like the wild bush,

376
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:15.599
and so they kind of perpetuated the wild right, wild

377
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:19.839
jungle native belief of the time. Yeah, they made it

378
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:23.319
that way, right, and so they perpetuated they made it

379
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:26.400
that way, and then they made it worse by by

380
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.960
like developing these areas like not the pretty such importance

381
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.240
and not the rest. And then they're like, oh, look

382
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.319
at that side, like it's so gross. But it's like,

383
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:37.599
which you made it this way? Yes, oh my god, yeah,

384
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:43.160
and and can this not be applied into many places? Right? Yes?

385
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:50.680
And eventually well, okay, first, these debates continued on and

386
00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:55.720
on about where to enforce regulations, fighting what the natives about,

387
00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:58.920
because it was it was like they they didn't do

388
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.200
any work too, like create like I don't know, quote,

389
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:06.279
sanitary buildings, but like in other ways they were enforcing

390
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:11.720
different tenantation guidelines, right, like like the like the Gang

391
00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:16.680
of Mosquito whatever they were called. Right, So anyway, they

392
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:19.920
continue like fighting with the locals, fighting with each other

393
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:23.079
about what areas to focus on, what to regulate, what

394
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:26.799
to not And eventually they were like, well fuck this,

395
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.680
let's give up on these wild bush areas, like this

396
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.799
is just a bunch of wild nobody lives here anyway,

397
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:35.240
but of course there's people there. But because it was

398
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:39.359
so neglected and they called it the bush. And mind you,

399
00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:43.440
there's a lot in the book rased about there wasn't

400
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:48.960
wild bush, right, Like the people living there they did agriculture,

401
00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:52.240
they like, they did a lot, like they weren't just

402
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:54.880
living in the wild. Of course not that's ridiculous. That's

403
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:59.960
a ridiculous racist notion, right, Yeah, But to the ICC officials,

404
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:04.440
because these areas were in their eyes, underdeveloped, uncared for

405
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:11.240
savage wild, then there felt no kind of way about

406
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:16.200
depipulating it. Yeah. So my point being that these kind

407
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:20.319
of issues whatever continued up until the depopulation order and

408
00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:24.839
contributed to the depopulation right right to them, it's like, well,

409
00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:27.000
no one lives there anyway, and it looks like trash

410
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:30.279
because they made it that way. So now because of that,

411
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:34.559
they can just like get rid of whatever's there, even

412
00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:37.839
though people were there and had been living there and

413
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:43.759
we're trying their best trying to yeah, m hmmm. And

414
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:48.359
so yeah, that continued up until the depopulation order of

415
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:51.960
December nineteen twelve, and so that felt like a good

416
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:53.640
place to stop so that we could get into the

417
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:57.720
depopulation order and the process and the reactions from Pandemanians

418
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.519
living in these one towns that they had to populate

419
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:08.559
next time. Perfect. Yeah, wow, I didn't know that there

420
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:11.160
was this. I'm very glad you're again. I said this

421
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:14.200
every serious episode so far, but I'm glad that you're

422
00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:15.880
doing this because there's so much I just didn't know

423
00:29:16.599 --> 00:29:18.839
and there's so much more to know that I didn't

424
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.039
touch on. But it's hard. I think a part of

425
00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:26.359
the reason I kept what's the word procrastinating on the

426
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:28.880
on the notes because it's because, like I read this

427
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:31.839
whole book, I highlighted so many things and I'm like, okay,

428
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:34.799
but what there's so much like how do I Yeah,

429
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.240
and that's my problem with the cesar Travis. Yeah, so

430
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.119
that's where I included too much. It's hard not to

431
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:43.880
get lost in the sauce. Yeah, and I say it,

432
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:47.599
and we ended up with one hour, five part episodes

433
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:51.079
on yeah. Yeah, and so yeah, there's a lot of

434
00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:54.880
not including. There's a lot to learn and then talk

435
00:29:54.920 --> 00:29:59.079
about with this topic. But yeah, yeah, I feel like

436
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:02.279
it's time to get in to eat depopulation. Yes, And

437
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:04.160
that's really what I wanted to get into. And then

438
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:05.799
I learned all this other stuff and I'm like, well,

439
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.559
we needed to know interesting. Yeah yeah, and it's just

440
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:14.000
gross because like we of course can never escape the

441
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:19.599
racism and eugenics of the United States, but it's behind

442
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.480
so many things that I didn't know about before, right,

443
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:30.200
It's in everything. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's insidious. Yes, that's

444
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:34.920
the word ah depressing. Yeah, I did want to share

445
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:47.480
a update. Oh so here's our bullshit segment. Because the

446
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:52.160
self Durian National Assembly has ratified a reform that allows

447
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:55.440
the boogolar regime to change the self during constlution at will.

448
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:59.240
And if that does not scream dictadership than anything else

449
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:02.920
has and his dictatorship, then this should this should be

450
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.000
ringing alarm bells. So on April twenty four, twenty twenty four,

451
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.960
the southa Durian National Assembly controlled and controlled by Nuovacidas,

452
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:13.720
but it was sixty six votes in favor of reforming

453
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:16.200
Article two hundred forty eight of the South Durian Constitution

454
00:31:16.519 --> 00:31:19.319
at the time. Article two forty eight stated later for

455
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:28.559
Madesta Constitucion Assembly Leva Connell de lamitad masuno delos. Well, okay,

456
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:30.119
I'll just been in English, because that's a lot to

457
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:34.880
Any reform to this constitution shall be agreed upon by

458
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:36.920
the National Assembly with the vote of half of the

459
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.599
elected officials plus one, and for such a reform to

460
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:42.960
be decreed, it must be ratified by the following National

461
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:46.559
Assembly with two thirds vote of the elected officials. So

462
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:50.599
it's like a mechanism of checks and balances designed to

463
00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:53.960
protect the democratic process and the rights of citizens of

464
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:58.400
Salvalor by preventing any majority party from making rapid and

465
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:03.559
unilateral changes to the constitution and forestalling the vote unchanges

466
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:07.640
to the Constitution until the following democratically elected National Assembly

467
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:11.440
allows enough time for opposition parties to be elected and

468
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:16.680
provide challenges to said constitutional reforms. So it's a checks

469
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:18.480
and balance this thing, so that people can't just do

470
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:21.400
whatever they want. That's what it's supposed to be. But

471
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:24.640
the Article two Entred forty eight, approved in twenty twenty

472
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:28.480
four says for such a reform to be decreed, it

473
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:30.920
must be ratified by the following National Assembly with a

474
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.200
two thors vote of elected officials or by the same

475
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.960
National Assembly with the vote of three fourths of elected officials.

476
00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:45.200
And so if we look at these officials the National Assembly,

477
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:51.400
the members aligned with the Nova EVAs party Bucales party

478
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:56.559
is sixty seven of eighty four members, while the opposition

479
00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:04.440
parties which includes fml fmlyn Arena and Vamos and another

480
00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:07.000
one called No Temple, they only make up seventeen out

481
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:09.839
of the eighty four in this National Assembly. And so

482
00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:13.200
for most of the time after the this was all

483
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:18.319
made after the peace Accords. The salutary National Assembly was

484
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:22.160
composed of eighty four deputies representing two hundred sixty two municipalities.

485
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:26.759
Then in June twenty twenty three they approved this restructuring,

486
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.599
which is what I just described. So then it goes

487
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:32.200
from the two hundred and sixty two municipalities down to

488
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:36.160
forty four one. That number. Yeah, it's like the concentration

489
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:39.480
of power to a max is already concentrating. Like we've

490
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:44.279
been talking about him concentrating power since he was elected

491
00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:48.200
and president, right, like starting with the the re election

492
00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:52.400
which again was illegal against the constitution, and then with

493
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:59.759
the concentrating his power by basically dismantling the check of

494
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:03.279
Ba bolences or whatever. Yeah, with the first the judge

495
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:06.079
the judiciary system of San Ba Lord. And now this

496
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.280
because now the elected the number of those deputies that

497
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:13.000
I said, the eighty four has gone down to sixty. Yeah.

498
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:19.360
And so the new and reorganized National Assembly for twenty

499
00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:22.280
twenty four to twenty twenty seven began on May first,

500
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:26.400
twenty twenty four, and so now there's a redlining of

501
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:31.039
the municipalities. Uh, there's a reduction of elected deputies so

502
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:35.639
now there's only three deputies that represent opposition party three deputies.

503
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:40.559
All the other members are Nuevas Eveias members. On April

504
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.360
twenty nine, twenty twenty four, that was the last day

505
00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:46.880
it had the eighty four member legislative body. The National

506
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:50.679
Assembly controlled by Nuevasidas approved the reform to Article two

507
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:53.239
hundred and forty eight with sixty six votes in favor,

508
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:57.880
sixteen were in opposition. On January twenty nine, twenty twenty five,

509
00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:03.079
this reform was of phicial ratified. So all that is

510
00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:05.480
required now to make a change to the south during

511
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:09.760
constitution is a three fourths majority vote from the firm

512
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:13.360
elected officials present during a session. So that's forty five

513
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:17.119
out of sixty votes. With fifty seven members of the

514
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:22.159
assembly part of Buokalist party, does that make sense? Is that?

515
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:27.519
Do I need to clarify what this means? Actually? Yes, okay,

516
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:33.480
that's way. So there's sixty members of this assembly now

517
00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:36.880
right now they only need three fourths majority to make

518
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:39.760
changes to the constitution. Three fourths is forty five out

519
00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:44.840
of sixty votes. But there's fifty seven members of Booklist

520
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:48.599
party in this assembly, they're always going to have the

521
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:52.119
majority they're always going to have it. There's only three

522
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:57.000
members of opposition price, so that's yeah, that forty five

523
00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.559
of the sixty is always going to be met. Wow

524
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:05.360
mm hmm. And shout out to Dichos de Uno. We've

525
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:09.480
shout out this Instagram page so much, very informative. That's

526
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:12.159
where this information is because it was so explained so

527
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:14.599
well better than I could have ever explained it. And

528
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:16.760
I will include it in the show notes. But this

529
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:20.519
is an excellent place to keep up with Salvadoran news.

530
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:26.960
Yeah and yeah, that's honestly probably the worst booklet of

531
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:31.360
dates because now now you can just do whatever the

532
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:37.199
fuck he wants. And that's scary. That's that's very scary. Also, sorry,

533
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:39.360
because this is actually the last minute add on because

534
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:42.800
we had we didn't record last week. Right. He also

535
00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:45.800
has an agreement. Okay, well, this is I was looking

536
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:49.119
for because I remember I saw a post about that

537
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:51.159
and then I couldn't find it. So that's a white

538
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:54.679
explain the five. This is at the top of my

539
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:58.320
nugget because I'm not looking up the well, I couldn't

540
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.239
find whatever posts I had about it. So yeah, so

541
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:06.559
Bukele has made an agreement with Trump to create become

542
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:11.079
a third stop for deportees. So deportees that won't be

543
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:15.360
accepted or maybe it's too difficult whatever to take them

544
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:17.639
back to their original countries, they're going to be sent

545
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:21.840
to this third stop, which is where they're going to

546
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:28.119
be in a camp, a prison where they're gonna be

547
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:32.159
forced to work. And so this is a ohsaat a

548
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:37.320
concentration camp. Yes, yes, and this is an agreement between

549
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:41.679
these two countries. So yeah, and if anything, let's remember

550
00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:46.760
that the majority of migrants seeking asylum are Central Americans.

551
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.760
They're not Mexican, these things. They are Central Americans, they

552
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:55.440
are Haitians, they are from Caribbean places. So these the

553
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:57.320
all of them are going to be sent to prison

554
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:03.280
liver prison camps, yeah, where they will be enslaves. Essentially.

555
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:06.559
There's no there's no other way around it, no other

556
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:09.320
way too, there's no right way to describe it, because

557
00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:13.679
that's what it is. Yeah, and so yeah, this is

558
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:18.360
an agreement. So we'll see how that goes. Because I

559
00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:22.480
believe this, this still has to be built. This, yeah,

560
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:24.920
it's not. I was trying to find the post because

561
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:28.199
I remember in the comments people are being dumb as

562
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:31.679
they always are about. They're like, oh, could you do this?

563
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:34.280
I thought you were good? And I'm like, what might that?

564
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:36.679
I thought you were like, God, would you think that?

565
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.880
Oh my god, he's never always think about it? Okay?

566
00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:43.079
Oh yeah, it says Trump and Buckle, what's the pcpment

567
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:47.840
for detention movement? Okay, and there's a video about it. Oh.

568
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.280
I was hoping there was like a paragraph, but yeah,

569
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:53.960
it was just dumb. Okay. This is one of the

570
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:58.000
dumbass comments. Plan always do the best for his people.

571
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:06.880
Been Yeah, and Anai Bule implemented the best dumb dumb

572
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:09.079
Oh my god. And then someone else. I don't know.

573
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:11.239
I like you, my guy, but I don't know about this.

574
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:15.000
Oh my you like it? You like how? Oh my god?

575
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:18.519
This is not surprising. This is typical boer behavior. Yeah,

576
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:20.760
and I think for those of us that have always

577
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:25.039
known this, it's not a surprise. It's just the next step.

578
00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:28.239
Here's another dumb one. Bukla needs to stop being a

579
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:31.639
fanboy and actually help his people out. Hasn't raised the

580
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:34.280
minimum wage in four years and everything has risen in price,

581
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:36.679
yet he and his family have acquire so much lanently

582
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.559
It's like dumb and right at the same time because Okay,

583
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:43.039
they're recognizing that he's no longer no longer as it

584
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:45.360
never was. But they think he's doing this because he's

585
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:47.880
a fanboy. But no, this is who he is, like Trump,

586
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:49.480
this is who he is. He's not a fan bow,

587
00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:53.079
he is like a peer yeah Trump, Yeah, that's why

588
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:58.280
that they're both dumb as, like greedy motherfuckers. Yeah uh,

589
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:00.719
and he's never had the interest of his how oderent people.

590
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:04.719
It's just more money, just in concentrating power and getting

591
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:09.119
yeah money, yeah, yeah, just like it's bitcoin bullshit. Yeah.

592
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:12.360
And it's like, listen to our episodes, come on, it's

593
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.800
all there from when he was a governor, mayor whatever

594
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:20.599
he was. Yep, it's always good and everyone better explained

595
00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:24.320
and more coherent than listen to what was a Lilo

596
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:31.159
series on Oh yeah longer, Yes, excellent. Actually that's a

597
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:35.599
better yeah, so so well made. Yeah, so that's the

598
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:37.199
better one to listen to. But if you want it

599
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:39.559
to be like tietment and learning at the same time

600
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:43.400
about the corrupt things, then yeah, and then us. But yeah,

601
00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:46.000
I mean it's always been there, it's always been this way,

602
00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:51.039
and some people just they see it too late, you know, Yeah,

603
00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:53.320
and some people just still don't see it. I want

604
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:55.719
to say, like better late than ever, but you know,

605
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:58.280
I don't know. I want to believe that you want

606
00:40:58.320 --> 00:40:59.679
to to. I don't know if I can, but I

607
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:09.599
want too. Yeah, the cynic I yeah, sorry fun. Yeah. Also,

608
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:12.679
I saw just now a post about so there's a

609
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.679
lot of protests today. Yeah, we talked a little bit

610
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:18.000
on Patreon and you'll listen to us. Carmen went to

611
00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:21.239
a protest in Modesto and that's over on Patreon. But

612
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:23.960
I saw that in how someone in Texas. I already

613
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:26.159
really lost the page. But there's been a protest and

614
00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:29.480
power arrest, Like I showed up and did a raid

615
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:33.639
at the fucking protest and in Texas better forgot what

616
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:39.000
part of text is already. I hope that citizens let

617
00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:43.679
their undocumented member community members run away and let themselves

618
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:47.079
get detained, because even though you'll detained, eventually you will

619
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:51.559
be it's better. Yeah, it's better. Yeah, but I'm not surprised.

620
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:53.760
That's how they killed the two thousand and six movements.

621
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:56.960
So yeah, I remember, And if you want to learn

622
00:41:57.039 --> 00:41:59.760
more about that, we have an episode about that. We do. Yeah,

623
00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:05.920
I don't know, there's just like it's like it's a

624
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:08.519
of course everyone knows this. Everyone feels say, it's a

625
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:12.119
heavy time right now. But I think that a lot

626
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:16.239
of it is by design, right, like the overwhelm, like

627
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:19.039
you're meant to feel overwhelmed and that you can give up. Yeah,

628
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.639
And I don't know. There's so much that there's always been,

629
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:26.440
but even more now, right, there's so much lies, propaganda,

630
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:32.320
makes information being spread by Trump and his supporters, And

631
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:37.360
I don't know, like I feel like our part in

632
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:41.519
it is like a part of it is this podcast. Yeah, Yeah,

633
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:43.920
And so that I kind of wanted to talk a

634
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:50.599
little bit about Porcelina Gomez. My god, you know, I honestly,

635
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:55.079
this is one issue she has always been outspoken about

636
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:59.239
because she has set up organizations to like donate money

637
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.360
instead of just making a movie where she made money

638
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:05.039
off the movie and maybe the people in the movie didn't, yeah,

639
00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:08.760
but she had to throw awareness they didn't make money

640
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.320
or is that yeah, I've rather it. When the movie

641
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:14.000
came out, I wasn't sure because I didn't even watch it.

642
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:18.079
I didn't see hard proof of it. I just saw

643
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:22.679
mentions of it. But she has always spoken about this.

644
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:25.519
This is not new and so I'm not surprised she

645
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:28.559
made a video like this and to me, we're all crying.

646
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:33.480
That's what I was gonna say. I feel like I

647
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:36.639
of course like blah blah blah. We don't always want

648
00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:39.159
to be defending millionaires blah blah blah. Okay, whatever, that's

649
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:43.760
besides the point. Not Selena apologists. Okay, she has her issues.

650
00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:47.280
I'm not kidding. No, we went hard on her and

651
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:49.599
people came for us when we talked about her on

652
00:43:49.719 --> 00:43:53.280
our short lived Cheese My podcast, did we I don't

653
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:56.760
remember talking about her wow, when she was with when

654
00:43:56.800 --> 00:44:00.360
she first announced her relationship and then she it's been

655
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:03.360
all weird on Instagram. H I don't remember that this

656
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:07.719
was on what was it called? It was like chronically online,

657
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:13.039
I don't I only remember the only opinion I remember

658
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:15.079
about that is how ugly Benny Blanco is. But hey,

659
00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:18.000
we wehow our taste and you know, oh you are

660
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:22.000
still they seem to be. I am, I am. I

661
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:26.320
am a fan of her makeup. I have been a

662
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:32.440
fan of her music before. I like, yeah, that's true anyway, right, Okay,

663
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:35.960
but that's the point. My point was that you know,

664
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.800
people were making fun of her because she was crying,

665
00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:40.280
and yes, she made her about herself, but at the

666
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:44.840
same time, we're all crying, and it's a cringey to

667
00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:48.239
records of crying. Sure, whatever, but I think that it's

668
00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:51.320
okay to be emotional about this. I think that it's

669
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.480
okay to cry. And I think that when we're making

670
00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:57.239
fun of people for their empathy, I think that makes

671
00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:00.519
us like the right because no, yeah, like these are

672
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:02.559
the people. And you know what bugged me the boat.

673
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:04.840
One of the things that bugged me the most was

674
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:09.440
that this fucking dumb bitch called Alibeth's Duckley or Sucky

675
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:11.280
whatever the fuck your last name is. She's like a

676
00:45:11.440 --> 00:45:15.800
right wing propaganda person, commentator. She has a podcast. She

677
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:18.599
puts out a million fucking videos and podcast episodes the day.

678
00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:22.199
Even though she pretends to be all about traditional housewife.

679
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:24.960
Clearly you're working twenty four to seven because you're online

680
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:28.800
twenty four seven. Yeah. Selena Gomes posted her video immediately

681
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:32.599
Alibeth's Duckley posts her respons video, and I don't know

682
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:35.119
if it's immediately, I just know it probably was. If

683
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:38.079
you watch Funny Fridays, you'll know who she is, Oh,

684
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:42.800
she's this rat looking blonde girl. No, it's coming to

685
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:46.400
me very very rat like. And again these people will

686
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:48.559
be like, don't attack looks. It's because you're not smart.

687
00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:50.039
That's when you attack her looks. I don't care. I

688
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:52.639
don't care. No, we don't. Yeah, you're ugly and the

689
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:55.599
hate is on your face and I don't care your

690
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:59.880
shows on the outside. Yes, and saw this dumb it

691
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:04.800
is like right away in response to Selena's video, she's

692
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:09.880
all like, you're wrong, they're attacking, they're they're detaining criminals. False,

693
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:12.679
not true, false, we know that's true. That a lie.

694
00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:15.559
And this is the thing that bugs me about Like, Okay,

695
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:18.800
I saw so many videos making fun of Selena saying, oh,

696
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:21.039
but what are you doing with your money? Not one

697
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:25.800
video calling out this these lies. Yeah, yeah, like this

698
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:28.400
is propaganda. This is a lie. We have already seen

699
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:30.920
and we have known for a long time the ICE

700
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:35.440
does not only detain criminals. If that was the case,

701
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:37.840
why would they be raiding schools. Why would they be

702
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:40.480
trying to get permission to enter schools and hospitals? Right?

703
00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:45.239
And and it's because by definition, they have made being

704
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:49.840
undocumented at crime. That's why they get to say, oh, yeah, criminals, right,

705
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:53.480
they're they're arresting drug dealers and whatever, like, no, they're not.

706
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:58.280
And then so on top of this, dumb bitches stupid lies,

707
00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:03.679
which are lies, like it's not true. And then on

708
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:06.400
top of that, this is a person who wrote a

709
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:10.760
book called something about the sin of empathy, toxic empathy, Like,

710
00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:14.880
these are people that if you empathy as a sin,

711
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:19.760
and that's why they hated the message from that one

712
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:26.920
was because I forget religious titles. Yes to her, her

713
00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:33.119
message to them, her message of beautiful message was toxic empathy.

714
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:35.960
Empathy is a sin. Jesus would never do this. First

715
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:40.840
of all, wrong with you, I know. And sometime I'm saying, like,

716
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:46.599
I don't want us to lose our empathy, right, because

717
00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:49.239
that makes us like them. And the minute that you

718
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:52.840
lose your empathy, like that's what leads to humanization. And yes,

719
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:55.000
calling people ugly and whatever that's humanizing. You don't care.

720
00:47:58.599 --> 00:48:00.599
I know I'm being conflicting here, I don't care. That

721
00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:05.639
doesn't matter. But like the fact that they dehumanize us

722
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:08.880
is how they can do all these things to us, right, yeah,

723
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:12.599
And this is akin to every or comparable the same.

724
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:16.679
I don't know to every Huban tragedy or this you

725
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:19.440
know that's been perpetrated by people, it's because they don't

726
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:24.119
view those they are doing this too as people, Right,

727
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:27.440
what were you gonna say? But also on top of that,

728
00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:33.360
then the White House of Sleida Gomez, who's half white,

729
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:37.000
and then their response to video, I'm like, when when

730
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:43.280
have we seen a official government account attack a celebrity

731
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:48.000
like this? Yeah? Like these are yeah, worse time than before,

732
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:51.880
Like I true, this have we really haven't? This is

733
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.920
actually unprecedented for once in response they like clips Lena

734
00:48:57.079 --> 00:49:01.800
video and they they were like, oh, oh Selina the

735
00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:07.480
defense criminals tell that to these mothers of victims of criminals,

736
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:12.360
the illegals murder their daughters like first of an And

737
00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:16.320
also the passage of the Lake and Riley Act has

738
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:20.599
made everything so much worse, because what about what about

739
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:23.880
when Marcella Lucero who was attacked by a bunch of

740
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:25.880
white teens and one black kid and that was a

741
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:30.199
literal hate crime. There was no Act sign after his name,

742
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:33.599
and then things like that kept happening, but like, oh,

743
00:49:33.639 --> 00:49:35.960
we get one person and now there's an act that

744
00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:41.719
allows them to detain someone suspected, not even like proven

745
00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:45.639
to be guilty. So it's a nightmare. But all of this,

746
00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:51.119
all of this is connected. It's fascist behavior, like this

747
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:57.679
is like dictators like let's say Pinochet, who during the

748
00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:04.599
they did national TV talk shit about their dissentant descenders,

749
00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:10.559
descendants whatever the word is, not descendants, dissidents. Thank you.

750
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:15.599
I'm sick again. I'm sick. I'm just sick baby. Oh well,

751
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:19.199
like we don't have the folksinger who was killed, right,

752
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:21.400
And I know, like it's not the same because we're

753
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:24.719
talking about a response, but things don't happen like things

754
00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:27.960
are illolated that right, right, Yeah, because we did see

755
00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:31.840
them doing this in TV shows on doing the Pinochet regime. Yeah.

756
00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:35.599
So and this is a social media post clipping a

757
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:40.079
woman crying like this is insane, This is insane times. Yeah,

758
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:43.280
And I personally didn't see anything wrong with her video

759
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:48.079
either when I guess, like, yeah, she could be donating

760
00:50:48.199 --> 00:50:53.599
or creating a nonprofit organization, you know. But again, this

761
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:55.559
is an issue she has always been out spoken about,

762
00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:59.400
not about her love for Israel and her support for

763
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:03.440
Zionism right Palestine, None of that she's ever talked about

764
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.960
but immigration she always has, so you can't you can't

765
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.960
say she hasn't. Yeah, And I don't know, it just

766
00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:14.760
it feels I don't even know what the word is.

767
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:18.159
I don't know. We are a strange feeling seeing all

768
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:21.760
this yeah go down and I don't like it one bit.

769
00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:23.920
And that's why I wanted to talk about it. Yeah,

770
00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:27.119
or are we coming to ana gone? If you wanted

771
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:29.599
to say something, no, I was gonna say basically something

772
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:33.679
just wrapping up. But we did. This is something we

773
00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:35.880
had always wanted to do with Patreon, and we just

774
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:38.800
kept like, I don't know, not starting the Patreon and

775
00:51:38.920 --> 00:51:41.559
then forgetting me is what I mean by we but

776
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:46.920
using our Patreon funds combined with the spookytails because together

777
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:52.840
it's more, Yeah, but using our funds to donate to causes,

778
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:55.280
you know, And so that's what we're gonna do. They're

779
00:51:55.280 --> 00:51:58.840
almost always going to be Latin American Latino immigrant related,

780
00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:04.880
because that's yeah. So the first one is a border

781
00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:08.679
Angels does this water drop off in the desert for people,

782
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:11.320
and they need funds to help send people out to

783
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:13.920
leave the water there for people. So I think that's

784
00:52:13.960 --> 00:52:17.239
gonna be our first one. Either that or there's a

785
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:22.760
DACA fund that Batrio Drive Clothing runs where they pay

786
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:26.599
for someone's DACA to be renewed. So one of the

787
00:52:26.679 --> 00:52:30.000
two is gonna be the first one. And this isn't

788
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:32.639
to say we're picking one that's better. We're just gonna

789
00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:35.199
go like one, then another, then another, you know what

790
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:39.400
I mean. So if there's any organizations that you know

791
00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:41.599
of that you want us to add to our list

792
00:52:41.719 --> 00:52:44.360
of places we're going to be donating to, then you know,

793
00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:46.280
let us know. And if you want to help us

794
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:49.760
do this, one you could donate directly, or two you

795
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:54.480
can help pay me for my work is editing and

796
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:59.360
Carmen for her research. Yeah, this really make thirty dollars

797
00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:04.639
on this one, no worries. But if you want to

798
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:08.519
help us do that, then join the Patreon and you know,

799
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:11.000
let us know what you want us to donate to.

800
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:13.639
So yeah, that's what I wanted to say. All right,

801
00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:16.559
So I guess this breexist to the end of the episode,

802
00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:20.360
rage with us, but also we hope that this was

803
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:23.679
one least studia unknown for you guys. Bye bye,