The Sleepy Lagoon Murder Part Two

0:11 Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is Estoria's Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption, and genocide. But more than that, it's also by resistance, power and community. And today we are continuing our Sleepy Lagoon topic with part two. We had a little accidental break, their unplanned break. I should say, yeah, you were saying, yes, but we're back. We're back, baby, just in time for the end of the year. Well, this will come out in twenty three six, already want it? No this Thursday? Thursday is the first full Oh shit, yeah, okay, new year, New Year and new us. Yeah all right, wow, I am truly shocked. Okay, yes, this will come out in the new year. All right. So last episode we discussed the Sleepy Lagoon murder, leading up to Josselijas's tragic death and ending with the roundup of Mexican and Mexican American youth in response to the murder. And today we're gonna go over the trial, the movement to free the defendants and people versus Samora. So there were twenty two defendants, all raging from fourteen to twenty two years old, and the key defendants were Jack Melendez, Victor Thompson, aher Padilla, John Matthus, Ismael Parra, Victor Sewobia, Henry Levas, Gus Samora, Manuel Reguz, Robert Dejuz, Manuel Delgado, Jose Ruiz, ak Chepe,

1:47 Benny Alvarez, Edward Grandpre, Joe Errera, Gualalupe aka Lupe Orosco, Danny Verdugo, Joe Carpio, Eugene Carpio, and Henry Inostrosa. And like I said last episode, there were also Mexican girls slash young women who were brought in for questioning during the investigation, and although they weren't found guilty in the sense of having been officially indicted, charged, gone through trial through the normal criminal justice system, they were thought of as guilty. These girls slash young women were Frances Silva, Josefina, Josephine Gonzalez, Juanita Jenny Gonzalez, Dora Bacca Barrios, and Lorena Encinas, and they were all sent to the Ventura School for Girls on the grounds of having consorted with bad company.

2:39 So like they didn't go through you know, the normal criminal justice system, they just were sent to the school for girls. And we've talked about these school for girls. Yeah, back in the eugenics episode, yes, for sterilization episode, which is tied in well, it was about eugenics, yes exactly. So that type of school was where they were sent to and these were like run like military, basic type situation. It was a rough place to be in and many of them remained wards of the state even after the men had won their appeal and were released from prison in nineteen forty four, like fourteen year old Juanita Gunzanez, she entered the event tour school for girls in nineteen forty three and she was released or paroled in nineteen forty four, but she remained as a ward of the state until her twenty first birthday in nineteen forty eight.

3:26 That's what you talked about in that episode. Two. How even past like adult age, they remained, were forced to remain in those type of places, Yes, exactly. And this was a whole four years after the men were released. Because of people versus Samora, and for these twenty two Mexican youth who were indicted the men, justice would be in uphill battle from the moment they were brought in from questioning. As we said last episode, six hundred were rounded up during the investigation just because of how they looked II wearing a zoot suit, looking Mexican, being brown in a zoot suit. But those who were eventually charged and facing trial the twenty two they all described unjust police interrogations. After eighteen year old Ahelpadia was taken to the Firestone substation for interrogation, he was ushered into a room where he was surrounded by a group of police officers who were all asking questions at the same time.

4:28 How do you even know who to answer exactly? Oh, they did on purpose. Yes, yes. He refused to talk, and that's when they began to slap and punch him, all of them. When one of the punches knocked him out of his seat, one of the officers yelled for him to sit down so they could hit him some more. When he finally sit down, the same officer told him, quote, you Mexicans think you're smart. You guys never fight fair. End quote. As a bunch of police officers all were hitting them at the same time, talking about fighting fair. They were literally all yelling at him and then all hitting him at the same time and daring to speak on fairness, yes, the audacity of these people. Then another officer told him, quote, we ought to shoot every Mexican dog like you, and the quote of course he said that, And this is just the questioning the interrogation phase, yes, which is illegal and therefore would could not technically be used as evidence ideally, you know, yeah, you know, not even ideally, like that's the standard, right, right. Actually, I don't know when that was put in place, but I think it was in place already, you know, I'm not sure forced confessions. This is essentially a first confession, right, this is yeah, yeah, all of these were, but I don't know when even then though, like this almost exact scenario, but worse would play out in the future in like the Central Park five for instance, right right, That's why

6:03 I don't know exactly when they actually started, and I think in some cases they still don't follow this. Yeah, you know. Yeah. When eighteen year old Johnny Mathoos was apprehended to be brought into the station, he was searched and two officers found ninety eight dollars on him, and they refused to believe that it was his when he said he earned it working, so instead they insisted that he had stolen it, and they beat him up in an attempt to force to confess to having stolen the ninety eight dollars. Mind you, he was being brought into the station to be interrogated on about the murder of Josid Yas. Yeah, what do these ninety do? You said?

6:47 Ninety eight dollars? Yeah? What does he have to do with this? They searched him, they took his money, and they beat him to try and get him to confess that he stole the ninety eight dollars. He ended up passing out instead of confessing. Also, he, like most of the twenty two that were brought in, had no criminal record prior to the Sleepy Lagoon case. And the few that did have criminal records, I would personally think it was like, not a real record, but because of racism. And I will give you the Leva's brothers as an example. So, some time before all of this went down the Sleepy Lagoon case, they were driving their dad's car and they had been pulled over. Police refused to believe it was their dad's car and booked them and kept them in jail until their dad was able to get to the station with proof that this was his car. Wow. And so they were released, but this incident became part of the record. That's not right. No. Another one of them, Joseph Valenzuola, was told by Deputy Sheriff Miguel Gallardo, quote, you had better talk, you bastard, or were gonna fuck you up. End quote. At the same time, Deputy Sheriff Raymond Hopkinson slapped him around and shouted, quote, you're not so tough around here when you haven't got a gang end quote. Wow. They also called him cholo and dirty Mexican, among other things, all while again slapping him around. And Benny Alvarez, Eugene Garpio, Manuel Regues, Lupe Levas, and Henry

8:20 would all come forward with similar accounts of harsh treatment during interrogations and also wild incarcerated. And it was so bad that during the trial the assistant district attorney stopped this line of questioning. He's like, we're not going to ask this anymore because, like the defendants continued to say, we were b and forced into saying these things, and then the officers would be brought to testify. So like Deputy Sheriff Gayardo Hopkins Hopkins and whatever I said earlier, and Chief Clem Peoples. They were all brought to the stant to testify, and they all denied having laid a hand on the boys, but everyone knew they were lying. And this was especially frustrating for Anna Zachik and Read Levas's lawyer, who insisted that she be allowed to take the witness stand and testify that she had found Henry leave as her clients lumped forward in a semi conscious state, shirt covered in blood, lips swollen, and nose bleeding. Oh wow, after having gone into the interrogation room when the police left. Damn, she should have called somebody else to see it, because I think there's like dumb right. She couldn't. Yeah, she couldn't.

9:25 She dumb rules, dumb rules. Yeah, should have called someone else to witness this, and then that person could have been called to the stand, right because Yeah, the judge Josh Frike, of course denied this ridiculous request, is what he called it, which it is not. Well, these are the law of people. They follow the protocols and stuff. It's just not It's one of those things that's not allowed, you know, like attorney whatever, client, privileged like that kind of shit. Yeah, but she herself saw this right, and during the trial a test the fact that he told sheriff clean people's yes to all of the question he was asked because he didn't want to get in their ass kicked. Yeah, he didn't want to get hit anymore, and that everything except his name and his address was a lie. Damn. And the police force confessions out of all of them, either through manipulations or outright coercions. Some of the manipulative methods that they used were to isolate the ones who continue to resist, like not talk, by not lating them talk to anyone, including their lawyers, which is not allowed, which is illegal. Yeah, yeah, and they only let them see anyone until they confess. That's not right. No, you're supposed to have the right to talk to your lawyer, and you can. You're supposed to be able to end question at any point by saying I want to talk to my lawyer exactly. They also booked some of the boys under different names, which made their time in jail longer and made it difficult for their families and legal

10:56 team to folate them. Yes, which is very much not allowed. Again, was this like an error or on purpose. Oh no, this was on purpose under the wrong name. So they went and talk to their legal counsel. Yeah. Wow. During the trial, the defendants were not allowed to sit near their illegal teams, let alone talk to them. That is that allowed? No, No, it's not right. The judge made the decision to seat them all the defendants, because there were not many of them, seat them together in a bench in the front of the court. Isn't this why, like masks hearings masks, I don't know what you call them, like, they should eat have their own because they're not, like you said, they're not able to sit next to each their attorneys and whatnot. Yeah. So two of them, in the end, I want to say twelve were officially charged, but two that were not part of this twelve were able to get separate trials that were not part of these twelve and they were found not guilty. And it's probably because they had an actual access to their legal team and they had a right fair trial exactly. But because all of these boys were trying together, the judge made the choice to have them seated in front and then the defense team at the defense bench further away from them. Wow. And this was a jury trial, right, yes, yes, he's like, oh, this isn't going to impeded their access to a the legal team. But it did. How Wow, Yeah, it absolutely did, because they weren't allowed to get up

12:28 and just talk to their legal team. Yeah. So yeah, it absolutely impeded that, right, And so on top of that, they were also not allowed to change their clothes. The district attorney requested this on the grounds that the jury should see the defendants wearing the zoot suit that was obviously worn only by hudlums. Wow. And the judge agreed, and so he specifically ordered after hearing this from the district attorney, like, yeah, they can't change their clothes. And this is like after a lot of already a negative portrayal of the zutsuit on the rise. So yeah, it's like someone who is being accused of gang related crimes being forced to wear their gang outfit clothes. Yeah, you know, exactly exactly. And so on top of the clear picture that has had already been painted about these dangerous zutsuit wearing youth, each defendant was required to stand up anytime their name was mentioned, no matter how small the statement, they had to stand up. That's just to like humiliate them or what like what Yeah, basically I mean there's I really don't see another point to that, and I couldn't find like the reasoning behind it either, So to me, that is, I guess maybe like so the jury could know who was who, but still like I don't understand at some point it's like not necessarily anymore because not really right, like you would think does that matter? Then you would have since or tried each of them individually separately.

13:58 Exactly on top of that, the jury all her testimonies, like that of Lieutenant Edward duran Ares of the La County Sheriff's Department who testified before the grand jury, quote like one cannot change the sponsor of a leopard Mexican American youth share the same total disregard for human lives, like the assets who displayed in performing human sacrifices. All he knows and feels is a desire to rich kill that LEAs to let blood end quote real rich coming from a LA sheriff. Yeah, and like this should have been like objected on the standard, like is this relevant? Like are you talking about aztecs right now? Right? The ft like coming from someone who in their lineage is a whole genocidal slavery, and you know, like, what the hell?

14:49 But he didn't stop there. His testimony ended by saying, quote, whenever the Mexican element receives swift and shut punishment, he then and only then respects authority end quote. Oh my god, you know, how did this line of testimony, this line of however, this state, these statements arose, like how this kind of questioning houses allowed? Did nobody object? Was objection denied? Like what does it have to do with anything? Right? Right? I'd be like, object object my favor. I'm offended the book around baseless questioning or something that tint of stuff I can make. Lawyer shows exactly I watched Law and Order.

15:34 No I haven't. Actually I haven't watched much Lawyer shows. No me either, And they continue to hear things like that, Captain Vernon ridiculous though. Yes. Captain Vernon Rasmussen, in charge of the LAPD's Homicide Subversive Bureau, shared the same views and said basically the same thing to the jury, these are the same fools and to train worldwide after like regime toppling and whatnot? Yeah, yeah, or like the same foods who go around abusing the citizens of la Oh. Yeah, yeah, that's when he said, Viga, that's a given. During his testimony, he said that too many Mexican American youths were being released on parole rather than doing hard time, and that leniency only made the American judicial system look like a joke.

16:28 How is this What does this statement have to do with anything? Again? Why was this statement even allowed objection relevance? Exactly? There's one of the words I'll try to think of before mm hmmm hmm. And he ended his own testimony by saying that only swift and harsh punishment for the Mexican element would deter youths from developing attitudes that were exactly contrary to those adopted by the respectable Caucasian element. Oh my god, No, I'm telling you because I've been reading this book about policing worldwide, and I've been saying, yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's kind of hard to read because I'm dumb, so it's taking me a long time, and of course, like one third of the way, it's gonna take me a long time to finish it because it's hard to read and understand. I have to read everything like a bunch of times and look up a bunch of words. Anyway, I was gonna say, whenever you had to pause to look up some words, it takes a little bit longer. Yeah, And man, do I have a list going of all the words I don't know before?

17:23 But yeah, this is the kind of stuff they talk about. Like cops here like fucking Midwest went to uh uh, Japan after World War two, the Middle East, like all these places to train those police. But it was every they were training in identifying and stopping subserving subservience. Oh, I mean, which really meant it meant anyone that anything, unions, you teachers, you know, on and off any if you start for anything, right, But yeah, I mean look at that there was an LAPD Homicide Subversive Bureau, Right. That's why when you said subversive, I mentioned like, oh, this is probably the same cops because it was literally like city cops, like regular regular fucking cops going to fucking another country and teaching them how to terrorize their citizens, I mean police their citizens, yes, but same thing, no. Yeah. Yeah, And so let's talk about the judge presiding over this case, because I was about to ask that, and then I went on and on about something else, but I have meaning to ask, so good, well you know what I'm including it, which obviously him being the judge played a role in the outcome of this trial. So judge, sorry, I wasn't gonna go side journey here, but judges really determined, like obviously the outcome of things. But reminds me of

18:54 the judge who gave Brock the rapist brook Turner. Yes, that light ass sentence. Judge Charles Williams Frick was sixty before the trial began, and before being a judge, he was a prosecutor in the La County District Attorney's office. He was listening to his buddies then when they were presenting the case. Of course, oh yeah, yeah, no, which is how these things happen, of course, or rose quickly, Yeah, he rose quickly through the rinks and became chief Trial Deputy, and then you know, eventually judge and by the time, on and on, Yeah, by the time the Sleepy Logoon trial came to him, he had already earned the nickname San Quentin Frick Wow, for having sent more people to San Quentin State Prison than any other judge in California history, at least at the time, I don't know if anyone surpassed him. I didn't live. And I guess for those of who don't know, sant Quentin is like an infamous prison in California, I feel like, well all of our California listeners know. Yeah and so yeah, that was his nickname, Sam Quentin Frick and this reputation of his did not waiver during this trial. He ordered the defendants to all stay in two benches while their legal teams stayed at the defense bench. And speaking of the defense team, due to money issues, many of them had to share inexperienced lawyers public defenders. Then those who couldn't afford that were

20:28 given yeah, court appointed public defenders. So Anthony Covillo, who represented Joe Errera and Lupe Rosco, he was a retired police officer, police officer turned lawyer, but he had so little core room experience that he rarely spoke, and when he did, he sounded so unsure, so unconfident and so hesitant. Oh my god, that's terrible. Yes, absolutely, like that's like the worst. And this was like so many paid. This wasn't like a court if all the family could like pull together, and that's who they could afford Anna Zachik, who represented and I may be mispronouncing her name. I don't know, and I'm sorry if I am. Anyway, she represented Henry Leivas, Victor Segovia and Edward Grampre. And she was a former silent film actress okay, yes, who actually had a tiny role in the silent film Birth of a Nation under her stage name Olga Gray. Oh my god, I was not expecting to hear anything about the birth of a nation here. I don't mean neither, but probably just creeps back up randomly, you know, ever ever Omnison, ever present the Birth of a Nation? Yes, And while she lacked legal skills, she had the necessary charisma. But unfortunately she lacked legal skills. But she was a champion for the boys, she really, I mean, I guess she tried her best. She tried her best. But yeah, she's making up for being a birth of a nation, right right?

22:00 And yeah, but she said they didn't have the legal expertise because she was also a fairly new lawyer. In total, there were seven lawyers who were unfortunately were not working very well together in strategy, and they were like bickering in the courtroom. It's embarrassing. Yeah, they didn't have like a strong front and they should have. The prosecution, on the other hand, had two very experienced prosecutors, Assistant District Attorney Clyde Schumacher and John Barnes, and they had a simple and cohesive strategy. Lay out what little evidence they had, bring out the Lulio the ass and Lino theas father and brother of Foselias, so the jury could gain an understanding of Joselias's life, and then bring out the chief autopsy surgeon for La County to establish the cause of death.

22:51 So was that real the cause of Well, the autopsy surgeon shared what he thought the cons of death was, but there was just no way to link it back to the defender, right right, right, Yeah, And the last step was to bring out the women slash young girls, sorry, young teens of the thirty eighth Street group. I'm hesitant to call them a gang because they didn't call themselves a gang, and they'll get your party. So they brought out they tried to bring out fifteen year old Quanita Gonzalez, sixteen year old bet Betty Nunez, and Cummings, sixteen year old Josephine Gonzalez, fourteen year old Berta Aguilad, and eighteen year old daughter Barrios. They tried to bring them out and they all refused to testify. Oh wow, but you know that's street code, you know. Yeah, they didn't want to snitch and they didn't want to testify. They didn't want to be the reason that their brothers, friends and boyfriends would be sent to jail. So yeah, many of them were. They were. Also, they were asked continuously if they were a gang, and none of them would agree.

23:53 They're like, I've never heard anyone call us a gang. What's a gang? And so yeah, these girls never agreed or admitted they were part of a gang. They were just like, well, we're a group of friends. But the prosecution doubled down on this term gang. They really wanted to work with this growing fear of youth gangs roaming free and reaking havoc on the streets of La Like they that was what they wanted to pursue the jury of really, and so they tried to assert Henry Lavas as the leader of the thirty a street gang and another witnesses or defendants wh would corroborate this, like one of them was like, I don't know, we don't really pay much attention to Henry, but it was true that Henry was like a very outspoken, strong figure in this frame group. But regardless of the defendants and the witnesses saying no, we're not a gang, No, Henry's not the leader of our gang, the jury seemed sold on this gang idea and Henry levas being the leader of the gang, and the media was too. They paid extra attention to Henry leave us. And as for Henry, he was very I mean they all were, but unused to this much attention.

25:07 And he he accidentally works in the way the public perceived him. He would accidentally laugh or cover his mouth to cover up a nervous laugh. Well that's just the case for really anybody in trial where there's there being constantly recorded and whatnot, because you don't know how to act, you actually your normal self. It reminds me of ever heard yes one who is prodie. I don't want to hear from you, Okay, But yeah, she was painted like to be like mocking him, laughing at him at core, But it was everything was like made to look that way and it wasn't actually like that. Yeah, and this is this, this is what happened to Henry. They would take pictures of him covering his mouth or like a smirk, and then they would publish these pictures with headlines like look at the smirk on Hrdlim's face. Of course, Yeah.

26:06 To give you an exact headline, Sensation magazine wrote, quote ring leader of the bloodthirsty mob, smirking Henry le Bass stands accused of dealing fatal blows in murder end quote. And it's like, first, these are all lies. And just to add to how how biased and like full of lies the media was, this Sensation magazine that played a huge role in this trial and the portrayal of the defendants. Chief Clem Peoples has something to do with this magazine. Like I don't know if he was the contributor or like a like a producer, like like kind of stakeholder.

26:48 He was involved in this magazine. Wow, he and he was one of the ones beating these defendants when they were and being interrogated. So keep that in mind. Okay, So while the media was working hard at this negative portrayal of the defendants, on the other side were their families who were fighting fighting this portrayal of them fighting for their you know, incarcerated friends' sons whatever. They were brothers, and they had the help of activists like LaRue McCormick, Josefina Fierro de Bright, Bert Corona, and Luisa Moreno. And the three women, LaRue McCormick, De Bright, and Luisa Moreno were instrumental in forming the Sleepy Lagoon Defense Committee. All three were already seasoned organizers and they had all been involved in the creation of El Congreblo Espanola, which we talked about, and I want to say the Pecan Strike episode is when this Congresso came up. But this is one of the first civil right organist Asian groups for Spanish speaking people in the US. And yeah, j Ferro de Bright, Luisa Moreno, and Louie McCormick, they were all involved in this. And so this organization was already working to address issues that Mexican immigrants and Mexican Americans face

28:21 in the US, including police brutality and juvenile delinquency, and so naturally many of the members were interested in fighting for the boys, and so the Sleepy Lagoon Defense Committee was largely made up of members of El Congresso. The parents of the defendants of the Sleepy Lagoon trial turned to the s LC and Fierro de Bright and Moreno, and they all rose to the cause. Of course, Josavina Fierro de Bright used her connections in the entertainment industry to fundraise for the SLDC. Her husband was actually John Bright, a screenwriter and the co founder of the Screenwriters Guild of America, and she used this link. This connection she had, she also served as the link between the defendants' families and their supporters. She took Lupa Levas, the younger sister of Henry Levas, under her wing, and Lupa Levas became a spokesperson for the SLDC. Under Hoseefina Fierro de Bright's guidance.

29:26 She went from being like the super reluctant speaker to a very effective and helpful orator. Amazing yeah, and she was making big impressions at fundraisers and public meetings, moving people to the cause. But even though she was like a reluctantly doing this at first and not very like confident in public speaking, even before all of this, she was like a like many children of immigrants. She was her parents, translator and proxy and so she was writing checks, money orders, talking to the light company, the Gaviali or experience. Yes she did. And then on top of that, she used these skills to take notes during the trial and translate for her mother and the defendants mothers. Yeah, so she was already, like you know, doing some work. But with Josefina, Lupe traveled all over California to speak and raise awareness for the defendants. She spoke at events in Hollywood, Santa Monica, and her mom trusted Josefina Fierro the Bright to keep an eye out on Lupe. And while this may not seem like impressive today, these were spaces that Lupe Levas was not able to enter back then as a Mexican woman, as a Mexican teen actresses who supported the cause, recruited by Josefina Fierrole Bright would give Lupe formal gowns so she could look elegant at these speaking engagements.

30:56 Oh wow, yes, close, Lupa would never have access to make up. Like all of this. Lupa was even allowed to swim in the pool of one of these actresses, when she before had been forced to only be able to swim asleep lagoon because she was not allowed at public pools because of the no Mexican allowed signs. Yeah, so she said, quote, oh, we had the time of our lives about this, Like, yes, they were fighting for her brother, but also man was a time had Yes. Yes, Safina Fierro, the bry not only exposed her to a world beyond El Barrio, she also coached her in public speaking.

31:38 And while these two you know, were at the forefront of the s l DC, there were so many women behind the scenes and they inspired like everyone to organize back at their Yate Street. Dora Bacca, Barrio's girlfriend of Henri Levas, she helped start the Youth Committee for the Defense of Mexican American Youth and she served as the vice chair and they would raise funds for the defendants. They also would collect scrap iron to support the war effort. Like they were out here working and they were doing so much to get the public opinion on the side of the boys. But they were also trying out legal you know methods, but unfortunately these didn't all work well, none of it worked right. Well, you don't see, okay.

32:35 LaRue McCormick, one of her strategies super backfired, though at the time it was really a smart move because so she brought on lawyer George Shibley, a Libanese American lawyer who although he had only been graduated for six years out of law school, he had already established himself like for the cause, any cause. He took unpopular cases and he brought a fire with him that the defense really needed. And he had replaced a court appointed lawyer who just didn't know what they were doing. So he had to be better. He had to be better, and he had both legal expertise and charisma, which and apparently it was hard to find yes on a budget, yes, exactly. And Anna Zaschek was the lead beforehand, but he took lead because he had the expertise. But she didn't take this well.

33:24 And so there was bickering, the bickering that already was happening and continued. But on top of that, this judge had it out for George Shibley and would like dismiss his objections, belittle him in front of the jury, and often Anna found herself playing referee between them and this this is like you're a fucking judge, dude, Like what are you doing this judge did not like George Shibley. Wow, but bickering aside, and the judges straight up like this statement for George Shibley, like all of that aside, Her and George Sibley were the boy's best chance, like they each had like the unique gifts that the rest of the legal team just was lacking. But the trial the combination of like all the continuous racist remarks that the jury was hearing, the bias from the judge, like this trial was not going well. Damn. The jury was very much not on their side, and it was pretty evident from their facial expressions and stuff. And then unfortually, the boy's behavior didn't help either. And I don't blame them.

34:34 They're all like they're all young, but also they're like they're all from the same neighborhood, they all know each other. They're all I mean, they're all again young, so naturally like not as mature as like an older person might be. But they're all also like defiant, you know. So they they would poke each other, shove each other, bigger, talk and laugh, which only made the judge more angry and the jury disliked them even more. But even then, when George Shibley gave his closing statements, they were all hopeful and with reason because the defense had they couldn't establish a motive, they had no evidence, and they had no murder weapon. But this is just why, like there's already so much power with the state and you know, the prosecution and whatnot. Who is a state that they, yeah, barely have to do anything most of the time for the fucking jury to believe their assets, Like defendants are automatically guilty. And I understand that that makes people uncomfortable to hear that, because we live in a very procar storal society. Yeah, and of course, like victims deserve justice and all that, and so did the family of well said the yes, but I mean people deserve fair trials, right, they deserve to be proven guilty. Yeah, yeah, and without those things like what do you mean, yes again, no motive, no evidence, no murder weapon, right, necessary things to prove

36:08 someone who's guilty. But he would think, yeah, that was my nexcellentence, you would think. And so after six days of deliberation, the court clerk Arthur Moore read the verdict. Four of the boys, Joe Carpio, Richard Gasolam, Edward Grandpre, Ruben Pena, and Danielle Verdugo were found not guilty. Andrew Acosta, Eugene Carpio, Victor Segobia, Benny Alvarez, and Joe Valentuela were found guilty of assault. Manuel Delgado, Johnny Matthous, Jack Melendez, Anghelpadia, Ismael Para, Manuel Reguez, Bobby Thompson, Henry Inostrosa, and Gus Samora were all found guilty of murder in the second degree and two counts of assault with the deadly weapon with intent to commit murder. Henry Levas, Jose Ruiz, and Robert the Yaz were each found guilty of murder in the first degree with two counts of assault with a deadly weapon with a tent to commit murder. And the boys and their families were all shocked by the verdict and they all started to weep because, yeah, like again, they they had to prove that they did this, and there was no proof. There was no they didn't really prove anything. No. All they did was say, look at these Mexican youths in theirs dude suits. They're all violent, like because they're Mexican, and that's it and they're it's in their blood. They can't help it. The next day, Judge Frick gave out their sentences, which back then shocked even the Attorney General of California. He gave Henry Levas,

37:38 who said Luis and Robert Deegaz each life sentences at Saint Quentin. That's crazy. Manuel Delgado, John Matthous, Jack Melendez and Chelpadia, Ismael Barra, Manuel Riez, Bobbie Thompson, Henry nos Rosa and Casa Mora were all given five years to life at Saint Quentin, and andrew A Costa, EUGENEA Victor Segobia, Benny Alvarez and Joval Lenzuela were all given either one year accounty jail, road camp or the county farm Wow. And when the guilty version was announced, Sefa Fierro de Bright told them everyone like, hey, appeal process, that's a thing.

38:19 Let's get to work. She instructed them to organize fundraisers and they all began to get to work. The mothers prepared and sold foods like damles on the street to raise funds. They would organize street dances or sorry, neighborhood dances, and the young men in the neighborhood would be security for the fundraiser dances. Everyone paid her mentioned at the door to raise funds for the defendants. Margaret deyas mother of Robert deyas one of the defendants. She would sell copies of this pamphlet that was written by Guy Endoor and this was the Sleepy Lagoon Mystery, and this was written to raise money. So she worked in selling this pamphlet.

39:03 In the middle of this, the boys were, you know, behind bars, and they were seeing how their families rallied behind them, which did give them a sense of hope. The boys would write to Alice McGrath, who was the executive secretary of the SLDC, and just a little bit about her. She was twenty five when she began to work with the committee, and she started as the assistant assistant to the executive secretary, but she quickly rose up the ranks too. So she was so quote so outraged by the outcome of the trial that she was thoroughly committed to the appeal effort without regard to personal expense or concern. And quote and even though she lacked at evanced schooling, she held her own in a room full of people like lawyers, doctors, judges. Nice. Yeah, And she was instrumental in changing the Mexican American middle class perception of the convicted youth because they were like, oh no, these are hooligans. Like they don't like, you know, typical middle class views. And Alice would make frequent trips to go see them at her own expense. She would pay to go, deliver letters, go back and forth with the boys and their families. So through these frequent visits and packages and letters, she became like an older sister to many of them. And so let's see where I was, I there would go. Not long after his conviction, Henry Levas wrote to Alice, quote, I'm sorry things turned out the way that they did, as I had very rosy

40:36 expectations for the future. Did you ever make a castle out of sand or mud when you were a very small girl in pigtails and took much pains and trouble to create it, and all of a sudden a beggar kid came over and gestrated for you. Well, my feelings are somewhat similar. It seems like the whole world just folded up on me and there's nothing I can do about it. And quote Wow. I was like, oh my god, not the castle and down someone comes and kicks it over. Yeah. That made me sad. It isn't not life? So no, seriously, isn't that life has like a non privileged Uh? I was a member of enterprise class. Yes, yes, thank you.

41:21 Others except their fate with stoicism, and they wrote to Alice saying quote, I got in this, I might as well take it like a man. And while some of them were beginning to lose hope, they learned that the SLDC was still fighting for them, and this, of course renewed their spirits. While in prison, they all read The Sleepy Lagoten Mystery, which, again, like I said earlier, they had gotten famous screenwriter Guy Indoor to write. Actually I didn't think I said he was a famous screenwriter before. I don't think so. No, but yeah, famous screenwriter Guy Indor wrote The Sleeping Lagoon Mystery, and he purposely wrote it to be the opposite of a dry, scholarly piece about the trial. It was written to raise sympathy for the cause and ended with a statement quote the trial was not directed against suited Mexican youth. It was an attack upon your nation. It was a conspiracy against you.

42:15 It was an attempt to assassinate your future. Wow, strong words. Yeah yeah, And while many could see like oh wow, what an exaggeration, like he was really trying to emphasize that, yes, this did happen to a group of Mexican youth, but this could happen to anyone if democracy perished against fascism. But man, is he so right? I feel like those words are so true, like, first of all, always but especially now. But you know, the sad part is that they've always been true, And so I just said, but yes, like you're green, You're yes. I mean what I said, yes, yes, which what I wrote like this is a good argument for the general public. But me looking at it now, I'm like, this did happen to these groups of Mexican youth, and it would continue to happen again and again and again to oppress groups like black Mexican And no, it truly reminded me of the Park five. Yeah, it really is.

43:13 It's it's only who Trump had so much to do with that. Trump was like chief clean Peoples in this he has the chief clean peopils of that trial. Yeah, but I mean, like literally because Chief Clem Pupils was working with Sensation magazine. No, he put out a whole ad to call for the Yeah, I don't know if he called for their debts or just a whole board like calling for them. Yeah, I was in a billboard. I thought it was like an ad in the newspaper, like a full page. Oh, maybe it was an ad. It was I think it was an ad. I don't remember something either way. Something, But yeah, there's a lot of similarities here for sure. But yeah, to me, this is like these aren't because you know, he wrote as a warning, like hey, if you don't care about this, now, it's going to be you next. But it's like why didn't they care? Anyway, that's too much to ask. No, it is of people who view us as disposable people.

44:11 You're right, even now, how many people don't care about what's going on with Ice mind truth has been happening, but now at a truch more obvious visible skill. I think I've said this in another episode, but the most annoying fucking comment that I saw once was like, yeah, it was the gays and the trans people and now they're coming for the immigrants, and it's like, bitch, they've always been coming. Imagine being a trance immigrant but no, yeah, and likewise they've always come for all oppressive oppressed groups, right, like yeah, to the point where people didn't come out as trance because of the vitrio. And you know what I learned about recently, the ugly laws. They were even coming shit like people that had physical visible disabilities they were not allow say in public. Yeah, remember the year, but but too recent for a comfort. I was gonna say probably around Eugenics, the hardcore eugenics time period, it would be my guess, or after, yeah, because I remember looking at the year and when it was finally uh, that law was no longer in effect in San Francisco specifically, I from remembering right the video that I saw. I remember the year, but I was shocked at how recent, like maybe the sixties if I remembering, Yeah, Oh my god. Anyway, my point in all this is that, well, this was a warning. This warning serve to like regular people who know one heated had heated like them. Office had to

45:44 take head stop hed the warning. This was already happening too, right, and what continued to happen to marginalized groups anyway, Right, And that's what I'm saying. No, no one heated head style. I was trying to avoid this again, I'm sorry I said that like five time heat of Anyway, this book helped the boys understand that there were larger forces working against them, and they learned to articulate racism. Yes, exactly, they learned to I laugh because I'm crying inside. No. Yeah, they learned to articulate patterns of discrimination that they had already endured. And what this played in their trial, like what role is played in their trial? Right? But more importantly, it's not them. They were not alone. Even the Saint Quentin prison ward read the pamphlet and was on their side.

46:37 Now that's wild. Now that's crazy. Now you're talking crazy or okay, he was sympathetic to their cause, which I think is basically being on their side. I mean, yeah, I think Henry wrote to Alice after reading this quote, I had lost all faith before, and now there's plenty of nice people that are really trying their best to see us get a fair trial. And that's really all I asked to get a fair trial. And this was good for the boys, but sadly because a lot of their work focused on the boys, the girls of Sleepy Lagoon, they're largely forgotten. On top of them, like being largely forgotten by the white public. The SLDC did visit them regularly, like Alice went and visited them too, but there was no legal recourse to help them because there was This wasn't the regular criminal justice system. It was just a school they were sent to, but they had to go or they would be subject to actual criminal the criminal justice system, which is still institutionalization exactly. On top of that, many of the parents of the girls thought that the school, the Venture School, and the girls being wards of the state, would be good for them to get them off the streets, so they supported them being in the school. So there was like nothing to do for them. And then those that maybe occasionally thought about like oh yeah there was Mexican girls involved in this basically were like, oh, well, they got what they did or for like hanging out with the wrong type of people, So yeah, there was not much they could do for them. And while the

48:08 SLDC leadership and volunteers kept doing what they could, many friends and many of the friends and family of the boys they had no choice but to step back. Like life caught up with them and they just couldn't be involved in like activism anymore. Like in the case of Delia Parra, who was the wife of Ismael Parra, she wrote to Alice in September nineteen forty four that she was sorry for not having been able to continue her volunteer work and not checking in, but her mom had been hospitalized for two weeks, and on top of that, she had been evicted from their apartment, and she was also very worried about hurting her husband's feelings because she could only afford to get to Saint Quentin once a month to see them with their daughter. And that's the thing that like so many people were, you know, working and raising funds for the legal team of the defendants.

49:00 Side of that, like their families were still like struggling subject to life in la you know, And so she and a lot of the families had to step back. Some of them, you know, continue to work in this, but yeah, they did what they could. And despite the families having to step back, or like her, she stepped back, the SLDC was gaining momentum. They were getting letters from Black soldiers stationed overseas stating, quote, we members of the colored race, or sympathetic to your worthwhile and moral fight to free the Mexican boys. End quote That reminds me. I didn't mention it when we did the Border Patrol episodes, but there was someone who wrote to the president. I don't remember if it was Carter at the time or someone else, but a black man who was watching the news or Border Patrol or something, and he lived like in a border town community and he wrote letters expressing like discontent and like oh, like they're harming the mex Skins basically and blah blah, oh my god, I didn't know that. And you were like, this country is a very like what's the word I'm looking for? Like puts the military above like m yeah, everything realizes, idolizes, pedestalizes.

50:19 It's not a word, but you know what I mean. That's the military and members of the metalary military and a pedestal Yeah, so if if, why not use that to your advantage to get people to sway their minds into supporting the cause, like and of course these black soldiers were going to be behind this cost too, because this is something they experienced too. Yeah, exactation mm hmm. And the they also had this a part of Hollywood stars like Rita Hayworth, Orson Wells, Canada, Lee, Anthony Quinn, Vincent Price, Gene Kelly, Lena Horn, and Nat King Cole. Of those, I only know Jene Kelly and that King Cole. Oh, that's say that King Cole. Some of the names sounded familiar, Okay.

51:03 Rita Hayworth sounds very familiar, and so does Orson Welles. They also had lawyer Ben Margoliz take the lead in the appeal process because George Shubley had been subject to the draft. He was drafted in World War Two. Wait, how old was he? I don't know. I guess old enough to be drafted. Yeah, I mean young enough to be drafted. Mm hmm. So yeah, yeah, he was drafted. And so Ben Margoliz came in and he had a again another long record of taking difficult, unpopular progressive cases and winning them, and so he was very much down for the cause when he heard like you know about it and taking the Sleepy Lagoon case would end up costing him five thousand of his own money. Five thousand dollars of his own money. Okay, so this didn't go well then, no, no, no, eh, do you not know how people VI Samora ends. No, obviously, I said, let me continue. I thought everybody knew about people Visamora. My bad, all right, meaning he he did this for solo costs that he lost lost money. Okay, Well, I'm sorry, I'm dumb. Okay, I feel like you forget that, and I forget because I'm dumb too, Okay, go on. He and the team went through six thousand pages of transcripts and like the trial and found a consistent pattern of bias. Of course,

52:36 that Judge Frick had denied the defendants their constitutional right to consult their lawyers, and that the evidence did not support the charges of conspiracy and murder, and yet the jury had found them guilty. And so while the legal team worked the case, Alice worked with the boys so that they would not get into further trouble in prison, so that they could keep a good image, because how ivan them having an incident in prison could end the whole appeal process. M They could just be like, no, you're not eligible too, And that's so wild, because yeah, like prison cars could just make shit up as they do often, someone else could attack them. They could get in trouble for that. Yeah, but luckily she didn't have to do much because although the rest of the world saw them as hardened gangsters, they were all very much out of place in prison. Again, most of them had no criminal records before Sleepy Lagoon. They attended mass they enrolled in school when they were allowed to. They volunteered for war work. They joined prison sports programs and then excelled in baseball and boxing. So they were staying out of trouble big time. The only one who had a very very hard time was Henry Lebas, who was already so stubborn, strong headed, prideful. You put someone like that and you don't you never know what's going to happen, you know. He just didn't take shit from no one like he wasn't want to stand down, So if anyone started anything with him, he was going to fight back,

54:07 while someone else might have been like, no, I'm trying to be good, it's not worth it whatever. Yeah, he was not like that, and so he ended up being transferred to fulsome a higher security prison. At least his transgressions, if you will, didn't get them into trouble, and they continued the appeal process. The key is getting in trouble didn't affect that. Finally, in May of nineteen forty four, Ben Margoliz was able to argue the case in front of a panel of judges, and of course he did an amazing job. His clothing thoughts, I will show them. Quote. It was not just the boys who were on trial. The Mexican people were tried. Neither is guilty end quote. Yeah, it was very much true. Yeah, as you could see from their statements saying things like, oh, well they're Mexican, they can't help their violence because it's a lot of blood.

55:01 And it wasn't until October of nineteen forty four when the judges announced their decision. They agreed that the state lacked sufficient evidence to convict the young men of conspiracy or murder. And they did m hmm. But they did not agree that race played a role in the original ruling. Wrong but okay, but either way, there were twenty eight nineteen forty four, the Court of Appeals reversed all twelve convictions. It was a victory. Wow, yeah, yeah, all twelve are were released. Amazing but sadly, sadly, the time that they had already spent in prison, it was irreparable. Like, yeah, this song reminds me of and I know they don't like going by the Central Park five. I just don't have brother, they don't, Yeah, but just recognizable to everybody that term. But it reminds me of them, like they were young teamed one of them was a young adult. Yeah, and they were grown, grown men. And I remember I want to chear up now just thinking about all the time they lost. No matter what, you can't get that back, Like, no, you can't get that back. But also you're put in a place it's scary, traumatic as place. Yeah, okay, and so yeah, that time was irreparable, and so on the news of their release, like hearing that one prison guard at Saint Quentin smirked and said they'll be back. Wow, and like fucking for saying that, But it was true, because like this is what the prison system does in this country most of the time. Yeah, And so Henry

56:34 leave as Chepa Ruiz and car Padilla and Manny Delgado, they would all return enof to prison in their lifetime. Manny Delgado was the only one able to escape the cycle. After his second incarceration, he settled down with his wife and he was never arrested again. But the rest of them were in and out of jail their whole lives. Gus Samura, who this trial is named after, like the person who was doing the transcripts just picked the random name, misspelled his name. It has two ms, but when you look at the people versus Samora, it's a one M. But his last name has two ms. Oh yeah. But the namesake of this case, he met a similar fate in and out of prison. He unfortunately wasn't stranged with his family because his father was unable to forgive him for the embarrassment he put them through, and being a patriarch in the family, they all listened to him, and he became strange with all of them, which I'm assuming makes the process of trying to reintegrate into society much harder, even harder without the support. Yah, But some of them, some of them ended up being able to turn their lives around. Many Reyes, John Matthous and Jack Melendez became entrepreneurs in the LA area and the SOLDC disbanded in nineteen forty five, and many of them were facing trials during the name McCarthy's amera oh. Members of the of the Sleepy Lagoon Defense Committee, the activists who stood up for these young Mexican men were then brought to trial during the Mark MacCarthys ara. Of course, of course, of

58:04 course they were Yeah, they were accused of inspiring the Zutsu Riots as part of a master plot to disrupt American society. Oh my god, that's ridiculous. Yeah, because that's going to be our next episode of the Zuzu Riots. But the Zuzu Riots occurred between the ending of the trial and the appeal. The appeal was in nineteen forty four. The trial began nineteen forty two and nineteen forty three. I want to say it was the year of the Zuzi Riots. And between this time period though, because five months after the guilty veriic was announced is when the trial are not the trial the Zuzu Riots happened, because that only weren't racial tensions that were already in place. Yeah, and many, despite you know, being brought to trial during the McCarthyism era, many of them continued to work in activism and a lot of people, a lot of scholars today consider People Versus Samora as a landmark of progress for Spanish speakers in the US and the beginning of the Chicano movement. And as for Joseliyaz his family, they never recovered. Diao says father. He used to entertain his family playing the violin for everyone, and after Josseliyaz's death, he never played again. Oh that's so sad. I know.

59:23 His brother Lino Dias named his son after his brother Jose and Theodulo was never able to hold his grandson. He just couldn't get himself head. I cry, I know, and I was gonna say, like just because we're you know, obviously this is not a fair trial, but that is a negate, the fact that this family suffered and deserved justice. But I think it's it was time then, that time now that people stop looking for the criminal justice system for justice. Yeah, they and they never really had any closure. The case remained unsolved. They never learned what actually happened to their son brother. And in truth that the three eighth Street Boys, this youth gang supposed a gang, they simply could not have done it. They all went from the car straight to the home. They fought for a few minutes and they ran away. One of them on the way back to the car, like did see Jose Yas on the floor and like hit them with a bat twice, but that was not at all the cause of death. He like hit them in the legs and then they continued to run. It's like, oh, someone else to hey, because they're already in this like fighting mode, but continued to run like. There's absolutely no way that it was him who did it, because yeah, they were in and out so fast. And so there's two possibilities of what actually happened. In the PBS series The American Experience, The Zutsuit Riot Lorena Lorena and Sinas's son, Ted Encinas said that his mom carried a heavy burden for her whole life, and on her deathbed she couldn't hold it anymore.

1:00:53 She told Ted that her brother Louis nc Nas told her he had killed Jose. Yes, his uncle Louis had been part of the young men from the Downy remember them, the Downy Boys. Yeah, he had been part of the Downy boys who went to the party, and that on their way out they had jumped Hose the ass so with them. But the problem is that this doesn't add up with the time of anything, because the Downy Boys they all left around eleven thirty and their only stop from there to anywhere was the Sleepy actual Sleepy Lagoon shortly after leaving at eleven thirty, where they fought with this thirty eighth Street group, right, and Joselias was still at the party. He left the party around twelve forty, so it physically couldn't have been him either, even though he thought it was him and he carried that gill, as well as then passing that gilt onto his sister by telling her like it was me, but it wasn't him.

1:01:52 It couldn't happen him because they never returned to the de La home after having fought the thirty eighth Street group at the Sleepy Lagoon. The other possibility is that Jose was killed by the two young men who left the party with him. Who knew he was carrying money, who knew he was about to leave for the army? And who were those people to do the names? Yeah, and this was Luis Sito Vardas and Andrew Torres. Were they part of the group that was tried, No, they were never questioned. The police was busy nab zoot suitors. Oh my god. And you know what, more often than not, and this is the most likely, these were the most likely people who killed him. Most people are harmed and killed by people they know. Yeah, and his money was gone, so there's the motive. I can't believe there was this complete misstep. Of course they weren't able to find I mean, I can't believe it. But of course they weren't able to find a motive beforehand because there was none. Because this makes more sense. Yeah, and these two were never brought in, nothing done. But he left the party with them at around twelve forty. Yeah, so they were last ones to see him. But yeah, that was the Sleepy Lagoon case. Sorry, if I sat her out of breath the whole time I am out of breath, I didn't notice. Okay, I feel out of breath. So oh, I was gonna say, before you give any final thoughts or anything that I have listened to like two or three other existing episodes

1:03:22 on Sleepy the Sleepy Lagoon case. Sometimes it's combined with Sleepy Lagoon and Zuo Suit Riot together in one episode, but none of them really talked about HO said, yeah, it's like in the end, like what So I wanted to make sure I could find that and include that here so we could get just like a full like in the end, this was never solved. His family never had closure and they too suffered a bunch you know, everyone, like everyone lost basically the few that you know ended up being able to turn their lives around. But yeah, it's just the criminal justice system and the racial biases. Yeah, we're very much real and all of this is going to is informed. What would happen in between, you know, the appeal and the trial which was the Zuzu riots, which is going to be next episode. Thanks for listening, everybody, and we hope this was one less Estadia Unknown for you.

1:04:17 Bye bye. Estoria's Unknown is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources for every episode at Estoria's Unknown dot com and in our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot of work, so if you want to help us out financially, you can do so by supporting us on Patreon at patreon dot com. Slash You Studied as an own podcast