The Shady History of Nestle in Latin America (and the global south) Part One

0:10 Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is Estodias Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes it's normal and deals with tywee topics like criticism, corruption, and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance, power and community. And today today it's all about corruption, corruption, corruption. Yes, we're finally doing episodes on Nesli. Wait, you told me this and I forgotten it, and I love the gasp. I love how you were surprised. I have to say before we get into the topic. One of the reasons I begged, literally begged Carmen to do Estodia as a known with me this podcast is because I wanted it to talk about Neslie and what three years later, here we are, literally my notes, three years later, here we are, Oh wow, Yeah, I wanted to. I wanted to talk about their horrible history in the global South, in our case focusing on Latin America. Okay, and before I can talk about the horrible things Nestli has done, which actually we have already talked about it a little bit. But it was Coca Cola. But Coca Cola is under Nestli.

1:23 But you talked about Coca Cola murdering all the union people and allegedly but allegedly murdering allegedly but yes, Coca Cola and its contractors, yeah, allegedly suppressing workers' rights and labor union organizing with murder allegedly allegedly, but yes, in Colombia, but also got the Mala. But you focus on Columbia, so that is still under Nestli, like at the end of the day, because that's under Nestlie, right. But yeah, before I can talk about that, the that I want to talk about, which does include killing babies for slavery, modern slavery, child labor, stealing the water things, and then the paramilitary groups that were union busting with murder allegedly, I want to start the beginning of NESTLEI so we can get context, and then I'm going to get into the baby killing. This is depressing. Baby's dying because of Nestley in the Global South mostly, but also I think a lot of people by now have heard about I think the formula thing, right, is what you're talking about. Yeah, I think that is what a lot of people know about.

2:34 So that's this episode, and I don't think it's going to be a very long part one, but I want to talk about that in part one, and then in part two I'm going to talk about how they didn't really stop doing that, oh like like till now messing with baby and it's not formula anymore. But you know, like the drinks, the powdered drinks like ovaltine. Oh yeah, yeah, you know, like where it's like for older kids to get nutrients like a supplement. Yeah, like those kinds of things now and also formula stuff. That's going to be part two, okay, and in Latin America, but like and I'll and obviously well we'll get into it. So but that's this episode is just like the beginning of Nestli, the horrible things they've done with infant formula up to where all that people think it ended because it seems like, oh we changed, but like really they didn't. But that's part too. Does that make sense? Oh wow, yeah, no I can't. I'm catching when you're putting down perfect Also, I'm sure we'll get into it. But like Nestlie is, I mean, we know how evil they are, but there's huge, They're huge. Yeah, almost every drink you could think of it is under them. Anyway, My point being that's so hard to boycott them because of that. Yes, okay, so yes, we're starting at the beginning of Nestli because like a lot of ideas that became evil mega corporations, it didn't out with bad intentions, or it doesn't seem like it started with bad intentions, but we know they're evil, evil

4:06 because capitalism inherently makes every corporation evil because if you're all about growth, growth, growth, it's going to come at the expensive people and the environment. You know. True that. So Nestli, the corporations and birth is a result of two mergers and then a bunch of mergers, an insane amount of acquisitions and mergers that make it the mega conglomerate. Yeah, is that a conglomerate, conglomerate whatever it is, what it is today? That was a series of an insane amount of mergers and acquisitions. But it began with two. But before that, it began with Onnried nest Lee And I thought it was Henry because it's h E. N R I. But it's on Reed. It's a fringe pew. Yeah, And at least for this series, I'm only focusing on this because again it's an initial of like two companies and then like these like American Brothers. It's too much. I don't give a fuck, but basically two companies. So I'm sorry, I just don't like it's so boring to me, and reading about all these mergers are like, fuck this not writing any of this down anyway, Yeah, yeah, who cares about that? So the two companies became the Anglo Swiss Condensed Milk Company. One of these was Andri Neslie's Company, and then the other we WI. And then the other one was the Page Brothers Company. And that's the school of a name, their fucking name. And this is the original two mergers. But we're just focusing on Anri. So

5:37 Henri was born Heinrich Nesli on August tenth, eighteen eighteen, in Frankfurt, Germany. A Leo, yes, a Leo and a Swiss German. Oh was with Naven French? Oh no? Why did I get French from my bad? No Swiss? I got it because of the name Henri. Actually yeah. And then I said we sounds friendly. We yeah, and then we just kept going yeah Swiss German, my bad, no, well scratch everything, we just like Brench and yeah, Frankfurt Germany. He was the eleventh of fourteen children. God damn, well that's what it was like. Yeah, yeah, that birth control. Yeah, the dark times if you will. Yes. His parents were Johann Ulrik Mattias Nestli and Anna Maria Karina Achaman. When his father passed away, Heinrich inherited the family business. And this business was in glazing. He was a glazier. And this is a trades person whose job is to cut and stall unremoved glass. Oh god, okay, well why was that thing like a glazed donut? I honestly because we're kind of we we like we like the donuts, you know, stupid like donuts. All right, So I'm no same. This business had been in the family for five generations goddamn before was given to Heinrich. Five generalarys. Wow. Yeah, okay, but I guess, like a typical Disney plot, he didn't want to do the family business. Wow. So he didn't

7:10 do it. And before he turned twenty in eighteen thirty four, he completed a four year apprenticeship under a pharmacist. I don't know why, though, I mean, there's fourteen other kids, so one of them could do one of them can inherit and keep that family business going because yeah, and for some reason that has been lost to history. In between eighteen thirty four and eighteen forty he moved to Switzerland. Here he was able to fully use his training, and he was authorized to perform chemical experiments, write out prescriptions, and sell medicines. And it was in this era of his life that he changed his name from Heinrich to Henri to better fit with the Swiss. I guess Heinrich was too German. I mean, as soon as you said Heinrich, I'm like, wait, is he German? Yeah? I mean yeah.

8:00 And Henri nest Lee was always chasing the bag, trying to find a new thing to make money. He buy into the region's production of wrap seeds. I don't know that's how you say. That's not like seeds that were made into oils. Basically, oh, okay, a production of nut oils, rum and absinthe like liquor, okay, absinthe. Yeah. He then began to manufacture and sell carbonated mineral water and lemonade. At some point he left mineral water production and then in eighteen fifty seven began to work on gas lighting and fertilizers. Like this man has done it at all, Yes, and again chasing that bag. What was going to make him the most money it fuels? I don't know. Or maybe he just had new interests. I don't know he had ADHD. I know, ron maybe he had ADHD, and it's not exactly known why or when he began to work on infant formula. That's what he did. It seems that maybe he was hearing about the ongoing intro mortality rates because him and his wife were childless. Oh and they I don't think they wanted children honestly, Okay, child free Queen's oh my god, that's the word I was looking for. Child free, I said, childless and that sounds more depressing than child free. Well for some people, they use childless. Okay, okay, but we don't know. We don't know. Yeah, we don't know. But he started working on this, and so maybe he thought an alternative to breast milk could

9:33 make him some serious money or save some serious amount of lives. I don't know which one. Wow, I wish I knew why not both? I want to know his intentions right, well, where they start out? Evil or not? Right? Because we don't know. There were different rumors on his reasons for getting into this venture. Some say he washed his neighbors struggle to feed her daughter and that was his inspo, or that he just saw the world around him that infants were dying. Well, you know what, it's true. Yeah, back then there was no other option. It was either you could you breastfeed, or the baby didn't eat and the baby died. And not everyone can breastfeed, So exactly why so many can? Well, besides the lack of breast control, Yeah, it was people or babies didn't live past well as if like five years. A lot of the time there was like a high mortality rate for five and under. Yeah, so who knows what his intentions were, But in all seriousness, this was, like we were saying, a time of high infantmortality mortality. Breastfeeding during this time was the ideal way to feed babies because it was the only option, especially for the poor. Because the rich they could choose to hire wet nurses h and then of course in the US force enslaved women to be wet nurses. However, we're talking about Henri and Europe, so in this case, it was hiring wet nurses and there was even a whole regulated program in Europe for wet nursing. Really wow. Yeah, And like in this program, a brunette women were preferred

11:06 to were the preferred women for to hire as a wet nurse. Why over blondes or redheads, because they thought that the milk of a brunette's woman was more nutritious and balanced. Why though, I don't know, okay, brunettes, yeah, okay, well when for us? Finally, although I time, I would rather kill myself than be a wed. I mean doesn't sound like fun. No, it sounds miserable. I mean some people like it. It was miserable, little fucking but like with their own kids, right yeah, yeah yeah. And so the women in the wet nurse programs were chosen with the utmost care because this was one of the most important jobs. Okay, slain. They all lived in one building together until their services were needed. M that's weird. Yeah, that's a little weird. And nurses had to go through routine health examinations and they were prohibited from nursing more than one baby at a time. And with all these regulations, there was not enough wet nurses for the need. I'm sure. Yeah, And there was a clear, clear need for an alternative, and so infants were starting to be I will add here though I didn't write this on my notes, but like during this time in Europe, it was like growing less and less popular for rich people that could hire wet nurses to do it just because they could. And obviously it's a woman's choice, but now it's like this thing where like well like a societal thing, not even

12:37 like a like a personal choice. It was like a societal pressure to not wed nurse, which then made the demand more and there still wasn't enough wet nurses. Like maybe if they had I don't know, regulated a little bit more and been like only if you absolutely need it, But that's not what happened. That's such a it's a tricky thing to say, though I will add on top of that, I don't know, such a what like a tricky trick I was gonna say. It reminds me of what people say about sergacy now, because you know, you have like rich people and celebrities that use services because they don't want to quote ruin their bodies or put their bodies through pregnancy, which obviously is a uh an experience.

13:20 If you will, Yeah, a physical experience if you will. But there's also some people who can't carry pregnancies, and so they opt for sergacy because it's one of their only options. And then it's yeah, it's like a it's a whole ethical question, like because is it something you should pay for because it's inherently exploitative. I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, pretty much the same argument for a witnessing, like I see it very interesting, interesting to say the least, which I will say the least, let me come. So, yeah, there was a need for something else, something different, and so infants were starting to be dry nursed, which is they were fed cow's milk or goat milk like animal milk, and these babies clearly struggled more than breast of the babies because it's just like it's not made for people, especially people that's small, that can't process certain things. Also, arguably some of us were never meant to drink milk. Yeah, doctors and scientists noticed that infants who were given this unaltered animal milk or in other words, raw milk. Yes, in other words, so babies that had this unaltered or another words, fro raw milk had a high mortality rate and were more likely more likely to suffer from indigestion and dehydration. And scientists had been working

14:51 for a while to find a solution, and unread nest Lee wasn't the first to try. Before him German scientists Johann Frontz Simon or Simon, that has to be Simon, Simon s Seaway Simon. He published the first chemical analysis of human and cow's milk, which served as the basis for formula. And this was in the eighteen thirties. And why did I not write down the exact year. I remember typing it. I don't know what happened anyway, I didn't write it down, but it was in the eighteen thirties, and so yeah, this was like a comparison of what the breakdown of the differences of human and cow milk. And so they found that cow milk had a higher protein content and a lower carbohydrate content than human milk.

15:37 And so the new recommendation was to add water, sugar, and cream to cow milk to make it more digestible for babies. And that's what they were doing. This was like the first version of formula. Interesting, so by eighteen sixty German chemists Justice von Liebig libig Li big Li Big, I don't know, developed the commercial formula and he Justice just he was inspired to work on this when he saw his favorite daughter, because yes he has favorites. Okay, ye, at least he's admitting it, he is. He saw her struggle to feed her baby ah, and so he claimed that his granddaughter thrived on this new solution that he made.

16:23 And this was a powdered formula made from wheat flour, cow's milk, multi flour, and potassium chloride. And this one was meant to be added to heated cow's milk. But when a skeptical French doctor tried to replicate this formula to see if it really was the best alternative to breast milk when you can't breastfeed, he found that infants were dying. He stopped the experiments because they were dying. Every c there was like five infant deaths. Oh no, two were twins. So his granddaughter just got lucky. Then, I think so, I think so. And you know that's the tricky thing. I guess, like you had to like, this had to be made. I mean, how do you test this out? You know, exactly, and like this episode, I don't want it to be taken as like, oh, breastfeeding is the best, because no fed is best and formula does really save one like if a woman can't or like mentally but for different reasons specifically mentally can't breastfeed. Yes, this is like the babies have to eat something like, there's no denying that. And obviously things have to happen in order for these things to have been made. But then once they were made and once it was known, like certain things were known, then like was there a need to for this to be pushed so aggressively in certain markets where maybe I wasn't the safest. That's the purpose of this, not trying to like be like, oh breast is best because no. Yeah. So, scientists kept working on making formulas better, and this is where where Anria

17:55 Nestley comes back into the picture for us. Using already existing work in this area, he created a new formula. This formula was made with malt cow's milk, sugar, and wheat flour. He also removed the acid and starch from the flour because these were difficult for babies to digest, and Nestle's new version was more accessible than Justice von Liebigg's because it didn't need cow milk. They didn't need to have cow and heat up the cow milk. This just needed diluted water that needed to be boiled before feeding babies. So yeah, more accessible, so soon freeing Lucktee and Rey Nestle that's the name of them. The first name Henry Nesley's Milk Flour, which said not the first name was Kinder Milk or children Flour, and then it became Onri Nestley's Milk Flour, which I guess sounds better than children flour, children's flour maybe children flour. Yeah, anyway, it was being sold all over Europe and then in the eighteen seventies all over the US for fifty cents a bottle. And in eighteen seventy five Andri NESTLEI retired, but the Anglo Swiss Nestle In Corporation of course continued and they continued and continued to grow. They added milk based baby foods in eighteen seventy seven. Then in eighteen seventy nine NESTLEI merged with Milk chocolate inventor Daniel Peter,

19:26 and so they're adding more products all the while their formula market grew and grew, and at first Nestley, under the wishes of Henri stated like in their official like marketing like they stated formula should only be used when absolutely necessary, and that breast milk was still best for babies and so like it shouldn't be used just because like for convenience. It should be an emergency or like no other option type of thing. Yes, and that's what they would say at first. Eventually, though, this line of thinking and marketing would change for the worst, especially after Henri Nestlei died because this was the messaging that he wanted. Yeah, that's what he wanted. And so again I'm skipping about Nestli the corporation growing. But nineteen oh one to nineteen eighty nine, there's a series of insane mergers. Damn. During World War Two, they get super super super rich. Nestle's nest Cafe, which we all know was super successful. Again, the coffee is just more accessible. You can like drink it anywhere, and so it became it became the stable drink for the US military. But it's also like the staple coffee in Latin America, instant coffee and coffee. Yeah, and also like it was the stable drink for the US military. But Neslie was supplying both sides of the war, because why not both sides? Yeah, both sides. And then

20:56 they acquired they acquired more brands in the nineteen eighties, more acquisitions nineteen ninety to twenty eleven, which includes like an insane amount of products that can't be stressed enough. Santa Pelagreena, Hot Pockets, oval Teine, Gerber, Coca Cola. They're like in almost everything. Yeah, it's scary, it should be illegal. Yeah, I agree. But back to Nestley and infant formula. Andrie Nestley died in eighteen ninety and within ten years of his death, Nestlei the corporation began to notice that people were preferring formula over breast milk, and they realized that marketing formula as better than breast milk was the move to make. This is how they were going to make the most money, and so they were starting to say instead that this was something that you should use because it's better. So then Nestlei started to donate formula to hospitals because there's always been situations in which infants cannot be breastfed, like various reasons. Their parents that breastfeeds died and now they don't have anyone to suckle like, they don't have anyone to breast off of. Right, Maternal mortality was even higher back then, right, yes, it was. These doctors were not out here washing their hands and then you know, yeah, sticking their hands everywhere, you know, Yeah, so you know, the mamas they were dying for no,

22:34 but like, no, it was bad. That worst use of mamas, the most cursed use of mama's. Yeah, you win, you be every time I ever said mama, Okay, mama, mama, let's live, mama, let's research. No, but like they were dying. It was badly Yeah, it's really bad. So yeah, hospitals needed formula for certain babies. But there was a catch. The requirement by Nestle, and there was other manufacturers, but I'm focusing on Neslie, but like Abbey was another one, and like you know a few others, but Neslie was the biggest one. The catch was that in order for these hospitals in order to get the free formula, hospitals needed to give free samples to all new mothers, not just for the babies that needed it. And so during this time, all yeah, all mothers, all people who just gave birth were receiving formula. And during this time, the doctor patient like trust a scale was way higher. So if a doctor was handing out something, it was like a medical endorsement, like, Yo, this must be good for me if the doctor has given me this. And so that's just one shady marketing practice. And this was like it was done everywhere, including the US, but it was bigger in the global South. Another super shady marketing practice that they employed was the use of milkmaids. Do you know what milkmaids were? No, Okay, they had other names.

23:59 That was just one of them. But these were saleswomen who were dressed as nurses who would visit parents of newborns in the hospital and then tell them this is the best thing for your baby and give them formula. Wow, it's like when you're crossing into false claims to sell more. Obviously that's not right. Yeah, And then the dressing as a nurse was intentional because this conveys like it it lends credibility. Yes, yes, it's just like whenever pharmaceutical companies would put it on a lab coat and yeah, but they're not doctors and they didn't disclothes that they weren't and so they were telling new mothers this and why would people not believe this? For nurse right? Yeah. Yeah.

24:51 Another thing that was commonly done was for formula companies to pay hospitals to design or upgrade buildings, and then these buildings were made in a specific way where the rooms where people where people were giving birth were further away from where the babies were kept, thus encouraging formula feeding because walking hungry, crying babies further away it was not ideal and so they were that fucked up. Yeah, the fuck it was. This was like super intentional. Wow. And they also encouraged practices like separating babies from their mothers right away and then giving them the baby a bottle right away, and so then these babies were used to a bottle and then they actually nursing and latching onto a real nipple was confusing for them and they couldn't do it and that she is stressful. So that was another practice that was very common. That is such growth behavior to be doing the yes, especially in the Global South or Latin America like they like and Latin America, I should say, like both. And so then you know, the combination of handing out these free samples encouraged them to be used. By the time this free sample was gone, the baby was not used to latching and the formula, more formula had to be bought. And then on top of that, sometimes they would also hand out free vouchers for them to trade for more formula. And when the fat vouchers were gone, the babies they had no choice but to continue feeding babies. But formula is expensive, it's a expensive as fuck, and so then having to go

26:22 and buy that and then it runs out so fast. Yeah, and so a lot of times in order to save money. And not even this wasn't just the global South anymore. This is also low income areas in the US. And uh, what timeframe are we talking about here here? Now we're in like this was this practice began like in the nineteen nineteen thirties, and then we're up to like the nineteen seventies. Now, wow, So it went on for a long time, a long long time. And also like by the time that the they needed a formula again, like most of the time, the breast milk like dried out by then, right, Yeah, it weren't. It's not like nowadays where you have the technology and the little what are those called, the little machines, oh to pump, Yeah, the pumping things. Yeah, Like they weren't as common back then, and even if they were, they weren't accessible to low income, impoverished people. Yeah. And the thing is breastfeeding and breast milk is that like you have to do it right away and keep doing it, and that's how you get your milk to come in, right and whenever this practice of like taking babies away, you're never going to get your breast milks to come in that way, Like it's impossible.

27:41 And these were mostly used in the Global South, like you know, the Philippines, Latin America, Africa, Southeast Asia, all these places, and low income communities in the US. And that's just that's so insidious, it truly. Isley also gave free samples to doctors, individual doctors, and then paid these doctors to tell patients this was the safest thing to use. And in all of these places, the Global South, Louncan communities. In the US, doctors began to notice that infants who were formula fed were far more sickly than other babies. And that's not because one is better than the other, but it's because of the way it was being used.

28:25 It wasn't the right way. Like these places had no access to clean water or they had to stretch out the use of formula, and so babies weren't getting enough because they couldn't afford to keep buying it at the normal pace you're supposed to keep feeding babies. Because they would give free vouchers for a little bit, but they didn't continue to give them. And that's why things like not benefits and wick and food stamps are so vital in the US and obviously everywhere, but like, these things were just cut in the US. But that's what made it worse in these areas. It's not that breast milk is better, it's that it wasn't being used correctly, and so infants were more sick. So yeah, these babies were just more sick, severely underweight, or dying in bigger numbers.

29:15 And every source I read stated that millions of babies have died these due to these aggressive marketing practices. One source said that in nineteen eighty one of that year alone, two hundred and twelve thousand infants died due to nesty formula like misuse. Damn. A nineteen ninety one UNICEF reports stated that one point five million babies in quote their war countries end quote were dyed due to incorrect use of nesting formula. So yeah, this is a yearly number like that that shled adds up. Yeah. One nurse in Peru stated that formula made its way to indigenous tribes in Peru, but they lacked access to clean water and infants were dying due to preparing formula with contaminated water.

30:03 And in Peru, Mexico, Chile, and again all over the global South, this was a very common occurrence. Not only this, but oftentimes when a baby didn't finish the bottle, it would just be safe for later, usually at room temperature, which we are not supposed to do, right, because then bad bacteria grows and then babies get sick from this and die. And this isn't the parents fall like at all in these especially in these places because oftentimes instructions on in formula bottles or for formula cans or in English, right, and they were not translated to all these different languages ever, and during this time period. And then on top of that, a lot of these places, literacy rates were not that high, right, so they're just handing out the sting and then not telling people how to use it, and then it's being used incorrectly. And then even if they did tell them how to use it, like we were giving someone instructions right after giving birth, like come on, right, like I'm sorry about my brain, it did not work like right, yeah, which most people would say the same, I imagine. Yeah, And it's not inherent like knowledge for someone to know how to use these things that they've never used before.

31:20 Even here, like how many times do you have the people have to reread like you know, instructions, yeah, you know. Yeah. So like take Chile for example, in Chile, by the time these practices were in full use, like the nineteen seventies, that's also there was a dictatorship going on in Chilet at the time, right aside from that, but breastfeeding dropped by eighty percent. That's didn't saying them out damn, Like only twenty percent of babies were breastfit at two months old in the nineteen seventies, Like I think this was from nineteen seventy seven or so, and but you had that all the money problems that were going on in Chile during this time period, and then of course formula couldn't be purchased like like we said, milk alone was seventy percent of a family's income in Chile. Like hm, we said that last episode, was it? Yes, yes, and so add in this insidious practice of nesli, like of course babies were gonna die, like yeah, and again we already said it, but I put it in my notes here, so I'll just say it again. This isn't to say breast milk is better than formula. It is true that in certain places formula is more risky, like in all the places where the lack of clean water right Like in all these places, formula is far more risky, especially because it would have been far more cheaper to invest in these countries and give mothers more food. If the mothers had more food, then they would be they would

32:52 have enough nutrients themselves to produce their own properly breastfeed if that had been if that had been invested in, that would have been better. But that's not where the money is for these corporations. They don't give a frink, right, So no, that's not what happened. And all of these shady ass practices were brought to light by this organization who published the pamphlet titled Nestley Kills babies in some places that's when they titled it, or did baby killer NESLEI, Wow, honestly, either one is a good name. It grabs your attention. It's honest. Yeah, it's factual, it's not slander. No, yeah, I couldn't think of that word. I was gonna say thefamatory, which could have been the same thing. Yeah. And this came out in nineteen seventy four. It was the organization in England who published it, but they translated it to almost every single country like wow. And so then a study by the Food and Agricultural Organization and WHO the World Health Organization found that in global South countries where the biggest sudden drop from breast milk to formula occurred, the number of malnourished infants also grew. Like they saw this study, then they went and were like, well, let's check these claims out and yeah, like let's look into this and it checks out. Wow, look at these numbers.

34:10 Oh no. And so this led to a pretty big boycott of Nestli, which might have been easier than nineteen eighties because they they had their hands in less things. Yeah. This boycott, though that was called for in this time period, is still being called for today. But now today you can add way more shit than just the infant formula, which we'll get into a part two. Yeah. And so as a result of these boycotts and like some places changing like laws, Nesli did change some practices. They no longer used milkmaid, They had to like announce who these salespeople were. Some hospitals didn't allow them in anymore at all.

34:51 But Nestlie then changed what they were like outside of the hospital, waiting for mothers with babies and arms to like go harass them about giving them like samples. Wow, so they were doing that instead, but it was already an improvement from having them dressed as nurses. I mean, yeah who. The World Health Organization also began to give new guidelines, especially in the Global South, where they said mothers should avoid formula and exclusively breastfeed in the first six months of life. But again, this is such a hard thing to do in a place where you have to work, right, or were you not getting enough nutrients, yes, but for yourself, yeah, which in a lot of cases is the global selth. Yeah, and so a lot of places.

35:36 Once all of this was brought to light, they quickly changed what they were doing. Costa Rica and the Philippines both changed hospital practices where babies were no longer separated from mothers right away, and infant mortality dropped dramatically once they started doing this. I just can't believe they allowed a fucking corporation to tell them, yeah, or encourage them for their hospital policies like that. It's crazy. You should never have been allowed in the first place, right, Yeah, but I guess when they're funding these builds and not built, that's true, their buildings and yeahs and whatever else and upgrades that they desperately need. That is so it's capitalism, man like, Yeah, capitalism all along. Seriously, that's why we were going to name that podcast this in the first place. Yeah, that's what inspired it. Yes, truly, like diarrhea diseases dropped by ninety one percent within four years of changing these practices. Wow. Wow.

36:33 But contrary to what many believe, they said they changed these shady practices and on paper everything looked better, But these practices in Latin America continue today, and that's going to be impart two. Oh my god, Yes that I didn't know about that. This is going to be a new information for you because I thought this was all past. No, no, they are still doing it almost this exact thing is still happening as far like twenty sixteen. Oh wow, in Latin America. And so yeah, that's gonna be part two, along with other things, like I was talking about the ovaltine and Needle is the other one. But also not only that, like Carmen already did the Coca Cola episode where they were working with paramilitary groups, right right, so you know that was another thing, but also like Flint and the water crisis in Flint is tied to Nesley.

37:35 And I'm not going to get too into that because that's not Latin America, but I will mention it. I am talk a little bit about it. I was gonna say, we also talked about Coca Cola, who is apparently undoering Nesli, Yes, and stealing water in Mexico. Yes, that's what I was gonna say, but not just Mexico, California and Oregon. Uh. I didn't know about that either, yes, it's it's a lot like when you look at everything and you're like, when does it stop? Like I don't fucking know, I don't know, damn, damn, damn. And what was the other thing working with? Oh, modern slavery and child labor, that's the other one. Okay, I knew about that, yeah as well. Well, all he's service level. Yeah then all of that. Yeah, it's going to be a part two. So yeah, all right, So I guess this wraps up today's episode, right, Yes, it does. There's something you want to add, well, I will add like, I know this wasn't super Latin America focused, but I wanted like a general overview. I guess it was a little bit because no, I think it makes sense and usually will do that whenever we have like a series. Yeah, but yeah, and yeah, I wanted like a bigger like where did the start? Yeah, and how far it has swayed, like not swayed straight straight? Yeah from nrinas Lee and his original intentions. Honestly, just the fact that these this has started and grew ten years after he passed for me, that tells me that that's

39:06 not what his intentions were at all. You know what I mean so right, yeah, because it seemed like they were waiting for that bitch to die. Yeah, like, bitch go, we have money to do here, old man, like, yeah, we have money to make and and yeah, that shit is insidious and it's scary, it's horrible, and so yeah, I don't think there's anything else to add other than that if you want to keep up on like current you know, events like immigration things, executive orders, but us complaining about about them like that, Like that's how you're getting this news that were like yelling and streaming and kind of God, no it's not your first source and yeah, hopefully not, but you know what it can be anyway.

39:57 Point us. We do all that over on Patreon. Also once in a while we talk about like TikTok drama and internet drama, but lately it's really been heavy, right, And part of the proceeds from Patreon do go to helping usually immigrant kind of organizations, like we did lately. We did the car Washers. It's in a show notes the exact name of it, but it's a group that has been donating groceries to car washers because they have in the most targeted groups for deportations in La County and so that's what we did last time, and I've been doing it for Spooky Tales. But if you send us a screenshot of your donation, I will send you.

40:39 We have two stickers. One that just says historian has a known and then and it's not like logo, and the other one is from our Monzanto series. It says all the homies hate Monzanto. We're gonna do Anslie sticker as well. Yeah, all the homies hate Neslie and we also should also add all the homies hate La Migra to that, so we'll send those. I still have to make the mega ones, but yeah, well we'll on those. Just names Screenshaw, you donated that influenced all in the show notes, and I think that's it. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Other than that, I hope that this was one half of a lessnown that it makes that doesn't make sense. It's part what this was one lesson say, I know for you? Yes, all right, bye bye. Estoria's ANNWN is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources for every episode at unknown dot com and in our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot of work, so if you want to help us out financially, you can do so by supporting us on Patreon at patreon dot com. Slash She studied as an own podcast