Sept. 12, 2024

The Lemon Grove Incident

The Lemon Grove Incident

On January 5, 1931, Mexican students were turned away from the Lemon Grove Grammar School and were told to attend a barnyard for school. As a result, the Mexican community gathered and faced off with the school board, in Roberto Alvarez v. the Board...

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On January 5, 1931, Mexican students were turned away from the Lemon Grove Grammar School and were told to attend a barnyard for school. As a result, the Mexican community gathered and faced off with the school board, in Roberto Alvarez v. the Board of Trustees of the Lemon Grove School District, and won. This became known as "The Lemon Grove Incident.”

On this episode, Carmen tells Cristina about this historic case

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Music Credit: Hustlin (Instrumental) by Neffex

Sources
https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/lemon-grove-incident/https://sandiegohistory.org/journal/1986/april/lemongrove/

Documentary:

https://www.pbs.org/video/the-lemon-grove-incident-gcrfxv/

WEBVTT

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Hi everyone, This is Carmen and Christina. I thought you

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were gonna, like not say this is Carmen. Okay, I

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was just gonna say I almost forgot to say this

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is Carmen. Yeah I did. Anyway, This is Astorias Unknown,

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a podcaster where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes

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it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption,

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and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance,

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power and community. And today we're talking about a little

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bit I'm skin line that again. No, not the second,

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A little bit of that, a little bit of this.

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We're talking about racism, we're talking about okay, resistance in

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the community. And okay, it'll feel similar to last week's

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episode because it is similar to last week's episode. So anyway,

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last episode, Christina told us about Westminster v. Mendez, an

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important desegregation school case, right, yeah, and so today we're

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keeping that topic going of school desegregation. We accidentally did

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a theme back to school theme. Yeah, it's September, kids

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are back to school. It was on purpose. Yeah, look

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at us accidentally doing this on purpose. Wow. Yeah, it's

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accidentally actually like on theme entirely like for the year

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the time and year which it is in now, Okay,

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I'm just talking out of my ass. Now I will

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be breaking that theme next week. I'm very excited for

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my notes. I'm excited for your notes too, because you

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already told me what they're about, and I'm really looking

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forward to it. But yeah, So, there was a prior

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desegregation case before Westminster v. Mendez, and it was actually

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the very first successful school desegregation court case in not

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only the history of California, but the entire United States.

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At least that's what I saw on one source. So

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hopefully that's true. Okay, yeah, hopefully. So it all started

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on January fifth, nineteen thirty one, in the then rural

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hate that word, rural community of Lemon Grove in San

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Diego County. So let's set the scene. The Lemon Grove

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community was described as a beautiful agricultural town surrounded by

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hills covered with the lemon and orange groves that produced

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hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. The town was

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home to an excellent women's club, one of the finest

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golf courses in southern California, A paved road, one paved road. Okay,

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this was huge back then. Yeah, of course, its own

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grammar school, many churches, and a chamber of commerce that

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would gladly assist anyone wanting to move there, unless you

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were Mexican, of course. Oh, I was waiting for that.

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No Mexicans, It's how they felt. So Mexican families started

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moving to the Lemon Grove area in the nineteen hundreds

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from Bacha, California, and many of these families were close

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knit related, some of them related, but even if they

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were related, they were from the same neighborhoods, similar to

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the families that you talked about in the one of

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our first episodes about the Dodger Stadium. Yeah, because people

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would follow each other like yes or leave together. Fifty

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families settled in Lemon Grove, some of them consisting of

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the Cessena Alvarez, Castaianos, Absse and Messa families and more.

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The Mexicans who settled in Lemon Grove found work in agriculture,

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which was the major business of the area. Also the

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local mining quarry quarry. She never know how to pronounce that.

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I don't know which one it is. Yeah, I don't

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know querry, I don't know. No, whatever, it doesn't matter. Yeah,

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and a railroad packing house. Most of the families made

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the journey from Bajack, California to Lemon Grove together, and

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they became closer once in Lemon Grove, you know, had

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to come together to fight the racism. Yeah, and probably

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build their own house system scratch because they didn't want

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them moving into the already existing houses. And I'm guessing,

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I don't know, it's quite possible, like that's what happened

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with Chavis Ravine in La Yeah. In January nineteen thirty one,

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something happened that united them even more. On January fifth,

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Jerome T. Green, the principal of the Lemon Grove Grammar School,

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under orders from the school trustees, turned the Mexican children

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of Lemon Grove away from the school, telling them they

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didn't belong at the school and they were to attend

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a two room building specifically constructed for Mexican children. Two rooms. Yeah,

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and this building wasn't really even a school. It was

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everyone like the students they called it, or they described

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it as a gabayerisa, which is a barnyard. So it

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was like a barnyard. Wow. Yeah. Six months before barring

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the Mexican students from entering the Lemon Grove Grammar School.

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The school board met to deliberately plan their discrimination. After

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a school board meeting was called wow a racism meeting. Yeah,

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an emergency racist a meeting. Not an emergency. Yes, it

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was an emergency to deal with the Mexican children. They

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felt like it was there was too many Mexican children.

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They need to do something about it. Wow. So it

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was decided that Mexican children would attend a special school

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and this decision to separate the Mexican students was endorsed

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by the Chamber of Commerce. After making this this decision,

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the board made no effort to notify the parents the

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Mexican parents. Wait wait okay, so they made this choice

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and then they didn't tell the parents and the parents

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tried to go to the normal school or what well,

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the kids went to the normal school and then the

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kids were turned away. Oh oh yeah wow, and because

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the parents didn't know not to send them to that school,

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right and though, so the kids went like normal to

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the school, like oh, we're going to go to school now,

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and then the kids were not allowed in. Yes that's

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worse than yeah it is, man. So yeah, the school

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board didn't notify the parents, and they actually deliberately decided

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to not provide any official notice as a way to

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cover their own assets because they didn't want it to

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be in writing that they were discriminating. I see. Wow.

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And twenty days later, the Mexican kids were expelled from

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the main school and their desks and belongings were moved

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to the barnyard. And so it wasn't clear to me

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and how because this was six months before they were

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turned away on January and then it says that they

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were expelled from the main school and their belongings were taken,

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so that timeline wasn't clear to me, but it every

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words confusing. Yeah, it seems I got some point. Maybe

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the first few started arriving, they were allowed to go

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to the school, and then when there were too many,

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maybe they were to be the care Possibly that's why

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they had desks that could be moved and they were yeah, yeah,

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but yeah, the main thing is they were turned away,

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not let allowed into the grammar school, the main school

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on January fifth. But there was a process that was made,

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a decision that was made to purposely discriminate the Mexican kids.

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In separated racism meeting yes, the emergency race meeting. Yeah,

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and so of course, just like you talked about last time,

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this was not an isolated decision made by the school board.

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This was during the Great Depression, during which Mexicans were

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blamed and an anti Mexican sentiment developed, and many Mexicans

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were deported as a result of the Mexican Repatriation Act. Yes,

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and including Mexican Americans. Yes, yeah. Yeah. When I say Mexicans,

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I mean all Mexicans born in Mexico and descendant of

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Mexican born parents. Yeah, anyone with Mexican ancestry was up

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for deportation. Basically. Yeah, we have to do an episode

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on the actual repatriation, and we do. Yeah. So, yeah,

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we talked about that a little bit more, didn't we

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in the episode about Olvera. Yeah, because we covered a

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raid that happened in Placita to deport Thesindans that went

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to Ye, but I can remember. Yeah, that was during

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the Great Depression, wasn't it. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I

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think so. It's because there was two times that they

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deported Mexicans and Mexican Americans. I was gonna say. The

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Mexican Patriation Act went on for like twenty years. The

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first instance was during the Great Depression because Mexicans were blamed.

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But then there was another Master depretition and it had

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to do with the Brasilo program and when the Brasilo

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program was over and World War Two veterans coming back

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from World War Two wanting their jobs. Okay, but that's

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still within the twenty year time frame that it was probably. Yeah,

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I can't do math. So it was in the forties, right,

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and Great Depression was in the thirties. Oh, you're right, then, yeah,

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the Great Depression was lifted. I'm not saying was over

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because of the war all the money last year, right,

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and let's cut all this sound well, you could leave

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it in so people can see how dumby or not

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we had to talk things out to remember, right or contextualize. Yeah,

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the fancy word for it, so okay. And then yeah,

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I couldn't remember if you shared this quote in a

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previous episode, like maybe in La or in This also

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is fitting for the sterilization episode, so I'm not sure

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I feel like you've heard it. But anyway, this quote

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that perfectly perfectly captures this anti Mexican sentiment from that

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time was written by Kenneth L. Roberts in a in

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the in the Saturday Evening Post, and I feel like

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you shared before. Anyway, the quote goes in one can

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see the endless streets crowded with the shacks of illiterate

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disease popuarized Mexicans, bringing countless numbers of American citizens into

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the world with the reckless proud did damn, I don't know,

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pronounce this word product productality. You're proving Kenneth's correct. I'm

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so sorry, Kenneth. Actually, I'm not sorry, Robert Roberts, but

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prodigality of rabbits or prodigality of rabbits, one of those

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is the way to pronounce that word, basically pro creating

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like rabbits recklessly and what a common rude ass ship

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that like they would say about Mexicans. Yeah, because this

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we talked about, not that quote, but that sentiment in

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the Sterilizations episode. That's why they did the sterilizations, and

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that's why it felt familiar. Yeah, and that's why it

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fucking offended me. Yeah, I hear your face was shook.

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It was the only reason I wasn't like that because

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I already read this it might ninety yeah, right, right. So,

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so this anti Mexican settlement led to the school segregation

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where previously did not exist, and like you said last episode,

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and the segregation of Mexican American children. It became widespread

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in California and Texas, to the point that in nineteen

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twenty eight, the enrollment of sixty four schools in eight

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California counties was ninety to one hundred percent Mexican American. Oh,

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these were the Mexican schools. Yes, So that's why they

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were ninety to one hundred percent Mexican students because these

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were the schools they were segregated into. Yeah. In Texas,

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this practice was actually institutionalized, like made into law, instead

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of you know, being decided behind closed doors in hush

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hush manner. In the nineteen twenties, Texas school boards created

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Mexican American section within neighborhood schools and those eventually became

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the Mexican American only schools. So yeah, so the school

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board designated a barnyard as a school for Mexican children,

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and they expected the families to just submit to this,

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to follow orders and have their children learn in a barnyard.

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But the families refused, of course, the Mexican parents came

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together and got legal counsel and support from the Mexican Consulate,

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and seventy five Mexican students went on strike and they

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refused to go to school to the Barnyard School since

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they weren't allowed back to the regular school. And the

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following month, the Mexican parents, who had organized into the

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Comite de Vessinos the Lemon Grove or the Lemon Grove

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Neighbors Committee, filed a lawsuit against the school board, challenging

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the school board's right to build and maintain a separate

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and segregated school for Mexican American students. The committee of

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parents first got help from Endrique Ferreira, who was the

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head of the Mexican Consulate, who then hooked them up

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with Fred c. Noon and Ac Brinkley, who acted as

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their legal representation. The parents also sought help from the

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Spanish speaking media to bring attention to their lawsuit and

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to the discrimination their children were subjected to. In an article.

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The committee voiced their opinion in a letter, writing like

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an OpEd, writing we are not in agreement, which is

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very natural, like duh that was me, adding that like

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da bitch, like da nor do we consider just the

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separation of our children without any reason to send them

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to another establishment that distinguishes Mexican children from children of

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other nationalities, So basically expressing their disagreement with all of this. Ultimately,

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Roberto Alvarez was chosen by the community to represent all

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of the children because he was an exemplary student who

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spoke English well, which, of course we can now argue

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was appealing to whiteness. But it's an argument for another day,

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of course. And that's what that's what they had to do.

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I was gonna say, it's what they felt like they

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had to do, not even what they felt like, it's

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what they had to do. It's what they literally had

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to do. And even in the Mendes v. Westminster case,

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it was like, oh, these children know English. They blah

224
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blah blah, like they had to say that they know

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engliship to say that there was no reason for them

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to segregate, like you know, yeah, And this is where

227
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the name of the lawsuit comes from. Roberto Alvarez VI.

228
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The board of trustees of the Lemon Grove School District.

229
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I don't even know a lot, so I just know

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it as the Lemon Grove incidents. Incident. Yeah, that's how

231
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it's more commonly known. So the school board defended their

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decision and said the following in a response to the

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parents letter in Opinion newspaper. The strike is being carried

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on by an intense Mexican national organization, which is organized

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among the Spanish American elements along the coast. So it's

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not so like it's it's appealing to that fear of

237
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quote foreign invasion, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, no,

238
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of course, that's exactly what I was gonna say. Just now,

239
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:24.080
it's like they're purposely othering this organization when this isn't

240
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an organization of out the community Spanish. Yeah, it's a

241
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it's an organistation or the community that exists in this city. Yes,

242
00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:34.919
that's what I mean by the community. People became a

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community there because you didn't want them anywhere else. That's

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why they're all in the same way. They only formed

245
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this organization because you didn't let their kids go to

246
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the main school. But they're they were trying to argue like,

247
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oh no, this is like being an influence from like

248
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outside elements, foreign elements, not from like these are not

249
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foreign elements. These are people in your community, that you're

250
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discriminating ridiculous. Oh my god, I'm not surprised, though, I'm

251
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not surprised they doubled down and did it by appealing

252
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to xenophobic Okay, I could not, for the life I believe,

253
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remember that word, remember the words you a phobic? Wow.

254
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I am just like shocked by myself right now, even

255
00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.279
not even right now, but when I was writing these notes,

256
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I couldn't remember that word. Wow. I was like, I

257
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was like, what is there's a word for this, and

258
00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:24.639
I can think of it as a word for what

259
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:29.399
I'm trying to say. How you say cucumber and it

260
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:31.759
happens to the best of us, you know, so it does.

261
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That's why I don't wanted to delete this part, because

262
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you know, people need to know it's okay to be dumb,

263
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:44.639
even us dummies can learn new things, even as dumb bitches.

264
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.600
As dummies can teach, you know. Yeah, And the DA

265
00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:51.080
had already signed with the school board, and they chose

266
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to represent the school board in the lawsuit, like they

267
00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:55.279
didn't need to do that, you know what I mean.

268
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The dh did not represent school boards. So at the

269
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.559
state level, the powers that be had essentially also sided

270
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with the school board. In January nineteen thirty one, George R. Bliss,

271
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California Assemblyman of Carpentaria, some Town, introduced a bill to

272
00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:20.759
the California state legislature to legalize the segregation of Mexican students.

273
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He wanted to make it official. Yeah, And in fact,

274
00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.839
in his hometown of Carpenteria, George Bliss was a member

275
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of the school board and he had already succeeded in

276
00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:35.839
establishing a segregated school for Mexicans, and he did so

277
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by labeling the Mexican school as an Indian school. And

278
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:43.200
per California school quote of the time it was allowed,

279
00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:46.960
it was okay, it was legal to segregate against Native Americans,

280
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to send them to these Indian schools. Yes, yeah, that

281
00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:55.880
is true. So yeah, I'm not surprised that they did that. Yeah.

282
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.960
So per the code, school boards had the power to

283
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:03.240
establish separates for quote Indian children and children of Chinese,

284
00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.200
Japanese and quote Mongolian ancestry. I was gonna say that

285
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:12.920
the first ones to be segregated were Asian and indigenous people. Yeah,

286
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:16.119
And so in the bill, George wanted to extend the

287
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:21.480
definition of Indian children to include Mexican children and pro segregation.

288
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:24.359
Members of the lemon growth community were rooting for this

289
00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:26.920
bill to pass, and one of them was quoted saying,

290
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:31.440
if this as in the attempt to segregate lemon growth fels,

291
00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:33.920
we will slip a bill through the state legislature so

292
00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:39.279
we can segregate the greasers. Yeah. But the bill didn't succeed,

293
00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:41.680
and so I could save this for the end of

294
00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:43.000
the episode. But I guess not just say it now,

295
00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.079
because I was just talking about the Indian schools and

296
00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:51.319
them wanting to extend the definition of Indian to include Mexicans.

297
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:54.039
I didn't see that this was an argument used by

298
00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:57.880
the parents, because I've seen it for future things like

299
00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:02.559
the Census and whatnot, you know, where Latinos and Mexicans

300
00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:08.480
basically asked to be labeled as white or chose to

301
00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.400
be labeled as white, you know what I mean. Yeah,

302
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.160
So I didn't see from my research that this was

303
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:16.440
an argument being made by the parents, like them trying

304
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:19.440
to say, oh, we're not Indian, we're white. Like, I

305
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:23.200
didn't see that as an argument for this case. They

306
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:25.440
probably didn't use it, I don't think so, because I

307
00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:27.799
think that I think that came later, but I just

308
00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:29.720
wanted to just mention it because I mean, we know

309
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:33.480
how Mexicans feel about being labeled as Indians, which is wrong.

310
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.319
Let's just put that out there, of course, and it

311
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:40.039
is true to say that not all Mexicans are right regenous.

312
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:42.640
But the reason that it was done in the United

313
00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:45.519
States is of course to be you know, closer to

314
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:49.880
whiteness and benefit from being white. And but also the

315
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:53.160
Mexicans weren't only advocating for themselves to be considered white.

316
00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:55.880
It was more like everyone else wanted them to be

317
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:57.880
classified as white too. I didn't want them to be

318
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:02.519
classified as a Like, yeah, which did you mention that?

319
00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:05.200
Did you talk about that already? Yeah, we've both just

320
00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:09.359
read the same book, right, Yeah, you sound like a

321
00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:12.440
white Girl by Julie Saads, And that was something I

322
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.880
didn't know before that one of the reasons, one of

323
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.839
the reasons Mexicans are labeled as why in the census

324
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:25.039
was because other ethnic groups and organizations were arguing for

325
00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:28.640
it as well, because they were what is that term,

326
00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:30.559
worried that they were going to take away jobs or

327
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:32.880
resources from them. Oh yeah, so they had like the

328
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:37.680
scarcity mentality of we can be the only people of

329
00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:40.839
color labeled in the sentence. If not, it'll take away

330
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:44.720
from our resources, like that type of thing. What year

331
00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:49.200
is this happening again? This was in nineteen thirty one, Okay,

332
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:54.160
It wasn't until the nineteen fifty census that Mexican Americans. Okay,

333
00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.160
that's what I thought. I was gonna say that it

334
00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:00.319
was around then if I was remembering right. Yeah, so

335
00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:02.400
this was an arn't in. This was not an argument

336
00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:04.960
for this case, but it's something I guess, you know,

337
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:09.400
to keep in mind. Yeah, okay, So, similar to last episode,

338
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.359
the school board argued that their intention was not to

339
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:16.039
discriminate against Mexican students, but that Mexican students needed a

340
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.599
separate building for their education because they were dumb. Basically,

341
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:21.799
it was an argument, but what they said is because

342
00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:27.559
they were backward and deficient, that's actually and would put

343
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the other students behind. They also argued that that it

344
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would serve as an Americanization school where Mexican students would

345
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.599
be assimilated, industrinated. Yeah, oh yes, assimilated or that you know,

346
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the same difference and samle so on February twenty fourth,

347
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:49.119
nineteen thirty one, the case was heard by Judge Claude Chambers.

348
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Sorry Chambers, not you proving them right? Not me? Okay.

349
00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:02.079
So Judge Chambers wasn't known as a just judge and

350
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:06.400
his campaign slogan when running for judge was justice tempered

351
00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:11.480
with mercy. He was even quoted saying, I believe a

352
00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:14.720
court should uphold the dignity of the law and respect

353
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the rights of all equally, irrespective of whether they be

354
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:22.000
rich or poor, and irrespective of what race, nationality, or

355
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religion they may belong to. Which from back then a

356
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:32.759
provolitionary Yeah, And Judge Chambers meant what he said, and

357
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:36.519
he stuck to these beliefs. In presenting their case, fred

358
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.880
Noon and Ac Brinkley focused on rebudding the school board's

359
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:43.440
claims about the backwardness and deficiencies of the Mexican children.

360
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:47.640
Roberto Alverez, along with ten other students, took the stand

361
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:51.559
to testify against the school board, but the majority of

362
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:54.640
the questioning was geared towards the school board and the

363
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:56.599
school staff, because you know they're the ones that don't

364
00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.000
fucked up, so appoints the school board and the staff.

365
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:04.519
Athol silent when being questioned by Judge Chambers because they

366
00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:07.839
knew their one the wrong. They had no answers because

367
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:11.079
they knew they messed up, so they didn't double down. Here,

368
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:16.640
not here, not in front of Judge Chambers. Ultimately, Roberto

369
00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:19.720
Alvarez and the Mexican community won the lawsuit and the

370
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:23.759
separation was deemed as segregation by the court, and his

371
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.640
closing statement, Judge Chambers stated, I understand that you can

372
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:30.839
separate a few children to improve their education they need

373
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:35.079
special instruction. But to separate all the Mexicans in one

374
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:38.319
group can only be done by infringing the laws of

375
00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.079
the state of California. And I do not blame the

376
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:43.920
Mexican children because of a few of them are behind

377
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:48.000
in school work for the segregation. On the contrary, this

378
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:50.400
is a fact in their favor. I believe that this

379
00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:54.200
separation denies the Mexican children the presence of the American children,

380
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:58.440
which is so necessary to learn the English language. So

381
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:01.559
he's like, stop this, stop this right now. And it's

382
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:05.440
not the Mexican kid's fault, No, of course not. The

383
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.680
court ruled that the school board had no legal basis

384
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:12.559
to segregate the children and noted that California law did

385
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:15.960
not authorize or permit the maintenance of separate schools for

386
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:21.960
the institution of peoples of Mexican parentage, nationality, and or dissent.

387
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.000
So it was ordered that the Mexican children were legally

388
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:29.440
entitled to enter the regular school building and receive instruction

389
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:32.759
on the basis of equality with all of the other children.

390
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:36.519
And I forgot to include it in my notes. But

391
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.000
in this case, the school didn't appeal, which was common

392
00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:43.319
in other places, which is why they did it in

393
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:48.039
the Westminster so Mendez, which went up to the California

394
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:52.160
what was it ninth the ninth Circuit, Yeah, yeah, And

395
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:54.519
so that's also another reason why other cases are more

396
00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:57.279
well known, because the school boards appealed, and so we

397
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:00.440
kept going up you know, the chain, and in case

398
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:05.480
they they didn't do that, they they you know, tried

399
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:08.319
to uh or they followed the order that was made

400
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.160
by the judge. Another thing that I did read about

401
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:14.759
was at the school immediately tried to erase evidence of

402
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:19.799
any of this, So their minutes of that time mentioned

403
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:24.240
and nothing about this, and and other I forgot what

404
00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:28.039
other ways they tried to hide this or whatever. Wow. Yeah.

405
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:31.160
And another thing one of the main sources I used

406
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:35.039
for This was written by the son of Roberto Robert.

407
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:38.759
Oh my god, I love that junior. And he seemed

408
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:41.599
like he had a lot of articles and research articles.

409
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.079
So I think he must be like some kind of

410
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:49.640
PhD or something in in this type of Latin American

411
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:51.599
or Chicano studies. Maybe I'm not sure, but he had

412
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:53.400
a lot of articles, like about a bunch of other

413
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:59.359
similar events. I love that. Yeah. So yeah, that was

414
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:03.440
in his article, which of course will be linked. He

415
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:08.039
also mentions a few other big cases about black students

416
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:13.839
and desegregation that were before the Brown Versus Board of Education. Oh,

417
00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:16.279
like weles w I do remember. That's why I said

418
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:18.720
I don't remember. But that article is a linked in

419
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:23.799
the show notes, so you can read the article. Okay,

420
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:27.279
I'll do that. I'll click on the sources in my

421
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.319
Spotify app while I'm listening to this episode that I

422
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.599
did edit also, but I'm going to listen to again

423
00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:37.000
and then I'm going to click on the source. Yeah. Yeah,

424
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:38.839
And there's a documentary. I didn't get to watch it

425
00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:41.559
because it was like an hour long, and well, it's

426
00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:44.480
not a documentary to a film. I didn't link it

427
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:46.559
because I didn't watch it, but it's linked in the

428
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.799
Zenda Project link, which I did use, so it's there.

429
00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:53.920
Okay if people want to. I want to watch it

430
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:55.680
in the future. I didn't get to watch it for this,

431
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.599
but it's not a documentary because they do reenactments of

432
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:02.720
the event, so okay, I give yeah, yeah, but it's

433
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:05.319
it's a film about it, but it also has like

434
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:09.759
interviews and then there's a kid's book written about this too. Oh,

435
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:15.000
I don't look at the zand okay, the project project,

436
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:19.240
all right, it's all there. Honestly one of the best websites.

437
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:23.279
I love Zanda Project. And you know what, when I

438
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:26.880
read the what is it a people's history of the

439
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:31.240
United States? My mind was blown. Yes, yeah, I was shocked.

440
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:34.079
One thing also that Robert thought of it, as mentioned

441
00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:36.279
and his article is that he didn't learn about any

442
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:38.960
of this until like college, and I'm like, we shouldn't

443
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:41.759
wait until college to learn about this. Yeah, this is

444
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:45.279
California history. Actually, they look at the comment someone left,

445
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:48.039
the comments and the posts that we made on threats

446
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:53.680
about Westminster, they mentioned did they mention the Lemon Grove incident?

447
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:57.759
They mentioned Lemon Grove? Yes, And then they said Okay,

448
00:27:57.799 --> 00:28:01.759
so yeah, this person said. Another interesting desegregation event in

449
00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:05.039
nineteen twenty five in Kansas City, Kansas, for Mexican American

450
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:09.000
children tried to attend Argentine High School when objections from

451
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:12.240
Anglo parents and threats of physical violence forced them out.

452
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:16.079
The school board offered the students a separate room and

453
00:28:16.759 --> 00:28:20.240
teacher or car fair intuition to another school, but the

454
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:25.799
Mexican parents, led by Saturnino Albarado, refused in the face

455
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:29.119
of a petition of two hundred signatures from Anglo parents

456
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:33.400
saying their children weren't wanted. The Mexican parents continuing diplomatic

457
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:35.559
and legal health, refusing to send their children to a

458
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:39.440
segregated school until the kids were finally allowed to attend

459
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:43.519
Argentine High School in nineteen twenty six. Senor Alberado's name

460
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:47.599
is on the gym of the school, which is now

461
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:49.799
a middle school, but if you go to the history

462
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:54.400
of the school on their website, nothing is mentioned about this. Well,

463
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.880
of course that was similar yeah to this where the

464
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:03.000
school tried to hide all the school board I mean yeah, yeah,

465
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:08.960
signs that this happened. Yes. Also, first, thank you so

466
00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:12.799
much for bringing this twas my pleasure. You know, we

467
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.440
really sat back to school with these last two episodes,

468
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:25.759
and bitch, did we ever go back? But this is

469
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:28.319
not a back to school topic now, because I did

470
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:36.359
want to do a brief bullshit segments. Yeah, oh my god,

471
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:39.240
I didn't know you were going to write it in time. No,

472
00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:41.400
this isn't written. Oh, this is just off the top

473
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:43.839
of my head. Okay, wow, wow, I come, you have

474
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:46.759
the brain for that. Okay, go on, Well it's my

475
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:51.640
phone in front of me. So he just tweeted, we

476
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:54.319
are the new safe haven for ideas, freetom of speech

477
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:56.960
and belief. As the world spials to chaos and government

478
00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.720
crackdowns intensifying, we will stand as the new beacon of

479
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.640
for the future. That is so scary. That is also

480
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.000
not true. And so this someone quotes heated and said,

481
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:10.279
your delusional bitch talk about that disappeared, the innocent rotting

482
00:30:10.359 --> 00:30:14.640
in your jails and your government's corruption asshole. Oh my god,

483
00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:17.480
I love that person, and I wanted to mention that

484
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:22.640
just yes. First of all, iconic response there sees best

485
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:26.480
with which we've mentioned many times before. They came out

486
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:28.880
of not that long ago August. Second, with a little

487
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:33.960
thing that says decreasing migration from a myth. Yeah I

488
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:38.160
read that. So in this they just debunk, you know,

489
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:43.720
the things that he said because he, as we know,

490
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:48.599
Trump said that he switched it from Mexicans nasen in

491
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:53.319
their best to right, not that long ago, sometime in August,

492
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:57.039
and then book that responded by like saying, I'm going

493
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:01.920
to take the high knee or whatever. I don't know,

494
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:06.279
yes I did, yeah, the high round, yeah, whatever something.

495
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:09.440
But it's a he said something about his knees. Really

496
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:12.480
there's like a saying that, like, I don't know, I

497
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:14.960
thought it was the high ground. I think the word

498
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:20.279
knee is somewhere in that. I don't don't quote me anyway, So,

499
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:25.119
you know, just to kind of reiterate, I guess that

500
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:30.759
people are migrating from in Sador. That is happening. Yeah, yeah,

501
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.359
from what I read from CSPAS, Yeah, two hundred thousand

502
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:36.200
seal doors are still you know, kind of an the

503
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:40.160
renewal of the TPS program. Hundreds more have like you know,

504
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:46.000
arrived since this. There's still right wing organizations calling for

505
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:50.480
the getting rid of TPS, which is what allows Salvadorans

506
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:53.160
to work legally in this country. In the United States.

507
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.000
Sorry my children, And yeah, you know, Bookat, I was

508
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.000
trying to say that the several durans are leavings. That's

509
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:02.240
simply not true. So people are still, you know, being disappeared,

510
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:06.640
and yeah, a massive rested and you know there's no

511
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.720
reason or you know, given for any of this. But

512
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:16.279
also recently, I just saw that there was a helicopter crash. Yes,

513
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:18.680
and that's what I was like. And I don't know

514
00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:20.079
if you saw me looking at my phone while you

515
00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:21.680
were at the end of your notes, because I was

516
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:26.720
trying to find more information on this, and I'm like,

517
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:32.440
where did I even first see this crash? Oh? Hold on,

518
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:34.680
I just found a post. No, well, I just found

519
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:41.839
a post from Dicho's own cho about the crash. So,

520
00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:44.480
so the thing about the Plank Garage is that there

521
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:49.799
was a bank that went under right, and the manager

522
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:54.279
of said bank, I believe it was the article says

523
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:58.680
co Savvy Savings and Loan Cooperative. There was an interpool

524
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:00.960
arrest warrant out for him. He was one of the

525
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:04.359
thirty two people implicated in the embezzlement of more than

526
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:10.480
thirty five million by cosavi's directors and employees. So he

527
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:13.880
was one of the thirty two people implicated in that

528
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:18.440
embezzlement and he was on this plane. Oh, Manuel Cotto,

529
00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:21.519
my bad. I did have his name, okay. And this

530
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:25.559
banker was captured in Honduras over the weekend and handed

531
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:29.680
it to Solvadorian authorities at the border. And then the

532
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:36.079
helicopter he was on crashed, right, yes, yes, no, sorry,

533
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:39.119
but the police, the chief of police died of Sarado.

534
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.279
The police chief in this plane, this topt crash. He

535
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.160
was in it, right, yeah, I think so, Yes, you're

536
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:47.720
right he was. Yeah, he was transporting him. Yeah. The

537
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:50.680
head of En Saradod police force is among nine people

538
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:53.400
who died when the military helicopter they were traveling and

539
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:57.440
crashed in central well in the country. And he was

540
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:02.480
escorting this guy, Manuel Cotto. Yes, yes. And then Bukele

541
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:07.119
after the crash wrote on Twitter that he didn't think

542
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:11.079
the crash should be considered an accident and ordered in investigation.

543
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:15.519
Hm hmm. I'm gonna speculate a little bit. This chief

544
00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:19.840
of police has been chief of police since twenty nineteen,

545
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:23.840
and he was key to Bugela's crackdown of the games.

546
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:29.400
So I'm like, maybe he knew too much, right right?

547
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:37.159
The implication right or the conspiracy hat mode on is

548
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:42.280
that he one or both like the chief and the

549
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:45.320
person that you know was being transported because they did

550
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:49.679
all this fraud know a little bit of something, right yeah,

551
00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:52.440
and then so they were killed because of that. So

552
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:56.400
de Manuel Koto also died I think so yeah, like

553
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.280
everyone on the helicopter. I mean that would make sense.

554
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.440
Who survives helicopter crash? Yeah, all those on board died.

555
00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:08.320
Oh okay, well, very suspicious. So if anything that was planned,

556
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:10.840
because you know, we all know how much he has

557
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:14.480
already embezzled, and like fraud, he's committed and this isn't

558
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.880
a step above like getting rid of people to continue

559
00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:23.159
or to hide your fraud. So again that part is speculation,

560
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:25.519
but the rest is true. Yes, yeah, yeah, and they

561
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:29.400
did point out when starts speculating, So yes, you did,

562
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:34.760
you did, as did I I think just people are aware. Yes, hello, Hello,

563
00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:37.119
this is Christina from the Future with an update because

564
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:40.079
of course, after we recorded this, we found a better

565
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:44.480
explanation of the helicopter crash that we mentioned. So this

566
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:47.719
fatal helicopter crash killed the main suspect in a massive

567
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.599
fraud case linked to the New Ideas Party, which, in

568
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:55.639
case you don't know by now, this is Bucal's political party,

569
00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:59.519
and this fraud case was linked to them. And so

570
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:03.639
just little timeline of how everything happened. Manuel Koto Barrientos

571
00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:08.599
fled and Salvador after stealing thirty five million. On the

572
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:11.239
twenty seventh of July, it was announced that he was

573
00:36:11.239 --> 00:36:13.960
captured in Panama, and then there was three months of

574
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.880
silence from everyone, including the Salva Duran government, aside from

575
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:22.639
one tweet with Naiu Bucelet celebrating this capture, that's it.

576
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:27.199
And then three months after that, on the eighth of September,

577
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:32.320
without any explanation, the Honduras authorities announced that they had

578
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:36.119
captured him, that he had been attempting to flee to

579
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:39.239
the US via un Coyote. And then there's a new

580
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:43.559
tweet from Bucele stating that you know, oh, he's been

581
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:47.239
captured and because of cooperation between US and Honduras, we

582
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:51.800
have avoided this complicated extradition process. Then there was silence

583
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:55.239
from the Salva during government after this tweet, nothing announced

584
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:59.360
after that. That same night, Manuel Koto Barrientos was handed

585
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:02.840
over to the Salvadorian authorities who were then supposed to

586
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:06.480
transport him back and at twelve forty one am on

587
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:10.760
the ninth of September is when the helicopter crash occurred.

588
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:13.719
So I think it's kind of what we said in

589
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:17.400
the episode, but maybe a little clearer. There is ties

590
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:22.840
between Manuel Coto Barriento's the fraud and the New Ideas party,

591
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:25.599
and the crash happened is basically the end of it,

592
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:28.480
all right, back to the end of the episode. So yeah,

593
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:31.760
that is it for the Buclay update or sorry Bule

594
00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:36.119
bullshits update and also the end of the episode, right

595
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.599
all right, Yeah, I think that okay pretty much is

596
00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:42.039
the end of it. Yes, I don't know, I sound

597
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:45.840
like that anyway. Thank you everybody for listening. If you

598
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:49.320
have enjoyed the podcast so far, Fabridia, leave us a

599
00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:53.719
rating review and a five star rating and recommend us

600
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:58.360
to your amigos, amigez amigies. Yeah, a song is saying

601
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:02.400
or I gonna like it? Yes, okay, all right, and

602
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:04.760
we hope that this was one nessit story unknown for you.

603
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.840
Bye bye.