La Matanza, the Hour of Blood: the Lynching of Two Teens in Texas

0:08 Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is the study I said no in a podcast where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption, in genotine. It's also by resistance, power and community. Well, we are continuing my Inferiating Depressing series here. I have added another episode twit at this point, so it's a five parter now it is it is this is four right, yeah. So in the last episode I shared the context, some context leading up to the time period from nineteen ten to nineteen twenty in Texas known as an Hour of Blood or in Spanish Lauda the Sandre or the massacre Lamat Tantain. Like I said in that episode, estimates of the number of dead Mexicans from these years range from three hundred to five thousand, and it's not exactly exact because so many murders went unreported. The Texas Rangers were in the habit of just disappearing people, which is something very specific to colonalism, right wing state violence. Right. Yeah, that's how you lessen the numbers and make something sound less severe than it was. On top of that, some of these numbers don't always include legal lynchings. So I shared the lynching of Antonio Rodriguez, who's considered the first victim of Lo Madanza, and I said, I was going to be sharing one of the worst occurrences of violence at the hands of the Texas Rangers. Yeah, but that's not happening in this episode because what I kept reading, there's another case that I want to share before that, because this also marks an important turn into Namatanza. Like if you

1:40 had to put a marker on significant lynchings during Amatanza, not that they were all unimportant, but some that just showed how vicious the whole time period was. This is one of them, and that's why I wanted to talk about it. Wow, And really I should have paired it with the last episode, but man, that would have been too rough. That would have been emotionally dreaming. Oh my gosh, I can't believe you do your notes this. You know why it takes me so long. It's because I read everything and then I do my notes. Oh no, I had This is how I've always done them. You read as you go. Wow. Yeah, this is the lynching of Antonio Gomez, which is very similar to last episode. Which was Antonio Rodriguez in nineteen ten. Okay, wow, and this is the case of Antonio Gomez. And again just like they'll last several episodes. This is for sure triggering yet to me, it is important to know our history. But of course, you know, listen with caution or skip this episode if you just are not in the space to hear this, because yes, this has all been very heavy.

2:42 The lynching of Antonio Gomes took place in nineteen eleven in Thorndale, Texas. At the time, eight hundred and eleven people lived there and ninety percent of those eight hundred eleven were white, mostly German American. It sounds dangerous, very for the eighteen Mexicans living in side of Thorndale, Texas. Oh my god, I can't imagine being outnumbered like that. Yeah, scary, And it's actually scary for us because we're actually discriminated against. Okay, right, And the Mexicans who were in the area were all either miners, sharecroppers, or railroad workers. Most of them lived in camps outside of the town or in the neighboring town of Rockdale, which was a little more Mexican. And this is where the coal mines were located, and I'm sure you might have guessed it, but the situation for the few Mexicans living inside of Thorndale was not good.

3:33 They were segregated and they were not allowed to vote. They went to different schools if they were allowed to go at all. So yeah, the German American population viewed themselves as superior to Mexicans. And I will add that these German Americans they were like very new to the area, like they were like German German. I get confused, So like me and you, are we first generation or secretaration? I thought we were a first gym because you're the first generation born here. Okay, that's what I thought. Okay, so if that's the way it works, correct us. They were wrong, right, gently? Please? Yes, gently? So if that's the definition, then these were first generation German Americans. Oh okay, wow, that's so crazy too. The generation before them founded the town of Thorndale. Oh, and they assimilated so fast to American culture. I was listening to a fascinating podcast. I want to say it was from what's his name, Adam Ruined Everything, but his podcast is called something Else. I think Oh, okay, I think his show is Adam Ruins Everything. Yeah, anyway, he has a podcast I listened to, oh factually with that or some shit like that. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, there was one episode where they talked about assimilation and immigration and they were like the person who was the guest, I don't remember they did it, wrote a book or if they were researcher in this area, but they looked back at it like going back hundreds of years, and especially with like white immigrants, they assimilated quickly, so it's not only like a German thing. I don't know. Wow, this makes sense then, but yeah, they assimilated so fast,

5:05 and so of course they were already like this because again it's a European country. But the German American population feared themselves as superior to the Mexicans who were there, and they often negatively portrayed Mexicans in their local newspapers as savages bandits, both in the Thorndale thorn Is their newspaper. I'm sorry, really they couldn't come up with a better name than that. No, very unoriginal. Yeah, and then the Rockdale Reporter and Messenger. I guess that's better. I don't know what's up with this alliteration, is my questions. They were fans of it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. In this case, it didn't know. They constantly labeled all Theiicanos, Mexican refugees, and Mexican Americans as bandits, even for the smallest crimes. They were like these Mexican bandits and their banditry, bandits, bandits, bandits mandatory. That's like all they said. Obviously they were going to have these terrible views of Mexicans, like yeah, because again they're very easily influenced. They assimilated in less than one generation. And again this is all taking place during the Mexican Revolution, which scares people even more so.

6:08 They painted a perfect us versus them scenario. In this area and in this climate is where the Gomez family was raising their children, so Antonio Gomez. His father was Gabrielle Gomez, who arrived in Texas in eighteen sixty seven as a seasonal laborer. For years, he went back and forth, working through the seasons until winter, and then in winter he would return to Mexico. He married Amelia at some point his wife, he continued to go back and forth until nineteen hundred. Then she moved down there, and in nineteen oh eight their youngest child, Hossephia, was recorded as born in Texas. The older five children were probably born in Mexico, as again the arrival of the family is recorded as nineteen hundred. It is a little unclear, though, because in the nineteen ten census Antonio Gomez is recorded as Texas Spanish. The Gomez family rented a house near Thorndale, so they weren't even in Thorndale. They just rented a house near it, and Gabrielle Gomez worked at a nearby farm.

7:07 All six Gomez children spoke English and understood English, but they could not read or write it. And so on June nineteenth, nineteen eleven, fourteen year old Antonio Gomez was whittling, which is like cutting a piece of wood to shape it into something. Heard fourteen and I'm already sad. Yeah, I don't know. I thought he was going to be a man. I didn't think he was in a little teen No, fourteen year old. So he was carving a piece of wood with his pocket knife. It was around seven pm and he was just outside of the Old Bank saloon in Thorndale. The saloon's owner, William Stevens, walked out of his establishment, and as soon as he saw Antonio, he was immediately angry. He took Antonio's piece of wood and threw it into the street, and he shouted that the sidewalk is no waste basket, even though he's the one who threw the piece of wood into the streets.

7:54 Of course, he didn't that. Then he grabbed Antonio and threw him into the ground. Then to groups of men, one from inside the bar and another from the street. They were just walking by, surrounded Antonio, who was still on the floor, and they began to call him names. Antonio tried to crawl toward his wood carving and then get away, but one of the men there, Charles Sees Shang, CIEs does that matter, okay? Charles seas Chang declared that he would make the damn little skunk quit widling. What is it to them? He was just there, he was mighty in his own business. It's because they don't want us to exist. Since back then and now he didn't, snatched Antonio's wood carving from him again and began to hit him with it as the group laughed and kept calling him names. To defend himself from this attack, Antonio grabbed his pocket knife and stabbed Charles z shan Good in the chest. This is literal self defense. He's surrounded by men, grown men, grown men. He's fourteen years old.

8:57 I don't know in what world this wouldn't be self defense today, right, So Charles C's chain fell over and died almost immediately right away. Good riddance, bitch. Right, But the story the white men told was different. We're too scared of before you do, boy, and were so scared that we surrounded him a bunch, you girl mean, because we didn't want to do We didn't want to street like fuck you guys because their little bitches, That's why, so they said. Charles went outside and grabbed a piece of wood from Antonio and then returned to the saloon. When Charles walked back outside again, Antonio was waiting for him a knife in hand. As soon as Antonio saw Charles, he lunged forward and stabbed Charles in the chest. I don't believe that for one second that's the version they told. No, not at all. Also, even if that version of the event was true and sure, this wouldn't warrant getting stabbed to some people. Why was he taking his little whittle whatever the hell it's called. Why exactly because they're bullies.

10:01 They're evil little bullies. So the constable immediately apprehended Antonio and marched him to the caboos. It's like a one building jailhouse with a single cell. And as the constable marched Antonio to the jailhouse, locals cheered and offered themselves as witnesses for shit. They didn't witness, right, Yes, this is what they do to propagate their whiteness. They lie. Yeah, they hadn't seen it. None of these people saying they were witnesses were there. Wow. And so the town talked amongst themselves, and soon the version of the white men who were attacking him is the one that spread the most. And the constable knee right away that this was something that would lend a situation that would lend itself for a lynching. And he was like, Antonio, he is this young man in front of me. He's too young for that, and he would not allow it. Okay. He ordered everyone back inside their homes, and he ordered for saloons to stay closed, thinking hopefully this them down and they we can get through the night and he will just face quote unquote the normal justice system, the court, Yeah, which was not normal back then or now. But that didn't work.

11:12 The crowd quickly grew to over one hundred. Is there a bit of blood Thursday? Racist little demons? Yeah, And fearing that the one room jailhouse would not be enough to keep Antonio safe from the crowd, the constable snuck him out around eight pm. He wrapped the chain around Antonio's neck. This is just how they transported people. No why. He wrapped the chain around Antonio's neck and led him to the home of G. W. Penny, just a bigger house that was easier to apparently secure or something or hiden. So the plan was to hide Antonio there until the constable could secure transport to the county jail in Cameron, which was another nearby tent like the biggest town in the county, with which had the county jail. And so the constable left to do that and Wilford, Wilson, and G. W.

11:58 Penny stayed with Antonio. Somehow, in less than an hour, the mob learned where Antonio was being hidden, and they demanded Wilson and gw Penny give him up, and Penny refused, and he spoke to the mob, trying to be like, no, this is wrong. And while Penny was doing this, Wilson led Antonio out through the back. Okay, my god, I though I'm gonna say Wilson gave him up. No, no, no, I mean he's one of the good ones, you know, is what I'm saying. Yeah, he tried his best scene to offend him and hide him and keep him safe. Yeah. So Wilson and Antonio were headed to the oil mill, which was a pre planned meeting point where the constable would meet them with the secure transport. But on the way there three men on foot and one on horseback.

12:41 They're so desperate, so desperate to kill little boy. Yeah really, And then they blocked the road and Antonio tried to hide behind Wilson, but the man on horseback grabbed the chain that was around Antonio around his neck and then dragged him. Oh my god. So he was on horseback pulling the dragging this fourteen year old Mexican boy all the way back to town in tears. I don't know the distance, but I read that and I was I was crying and mad and I was about to flip my desk, but it was too heavy, so they dragged him back to the jailhouse. There the mob tried to hang him from a ladder that was leaning on the telegraph pole, but that did not work. As Wilson caught up to them, he saw Antonio nearly lifeless as the crowd repeatedly kicked him in the head. Oh my gosh, I can't believe this.

13:34 He was just one man. Then he tried to stop them, but he was outnumbered greatly, one man. He was being held back as a gre Another group of man picked Antonio up again, nearly lifeless, and this time they hung him from the actual telegraph pole, and Wilson was unable to help. He He felt terrible, but he did report everything that he saw to the Justice of Peace. He was saying how they were trying to follow the legal way to do it, transporting the boy. These men blocked him. Then he watched them lynch him, and he gave them names. He gave the Justice of Peace would bring Norris. Wilson gave him accomplices and the person who actually did the hang it. He said, all of it. I'm gonna guess nothing happened to these fucking people, and they went on to have a little racist children themselves. And look at Texas now. If these people had been held accountable back then, there would be less racist in Texas today. And that's called the butterfly effect. Yeah. As these men finished their horrific deed lynching Antonio, they yelled at the now dead fourteen year old Mexican boy. They yelled at him, let's see if you want to kill any more Germans. And to that, I say, wait until World War two. Bitch.

14:49 Oh my god, I'm just like, what the fuck. So the constable also, because he wasn't there, he was trying to secure a transport. The constable got there and he was like, oh my god, I left the chain there. Like he came back to to this horrible scene. Oh my god. He was upset too. Obviously they should not have been transporting people like that, but that's the way things were back then, and he didn't think to remove it ahead of time. Yeah, and man, I don't know right exactly. And so he was the one to lower Antonio and remove the chain. And as he was doing this, the constable, a group of German American men went to the Gomez family home, leave them alone, ordered them to leave or they would kill the whole family, their son.

15:30 They just killed their son in the most violent, brutal way possible. Yeah, and then they go to them and demand them to leave or they'll kill them too. Who these people think they fucking are? Man, Yeah, this tells you who they think they are for sure. Oh yeah, Oh my god. And so fearing for their lives, the gomet family did. They went to retrieve Antonio's body, they buried him, and they fled. I can't even imagine how they must have felt seen him like that. I can't trying to think about it is I can't really, it's horrible. So, yeah, they went to retrieve his body, they buried him, and then they immediately left for San Antonio. And you know, it's terrible back then too. I mean, like a lot of times people moved and they never came back to where they were before, and so like they can't even visit the grave site, you know, they can't. And that's such an important thing for Mexican families. Yeah, I mean, like I know, obviously it's like I mean, important to a lot of people, but like I say this as a Mexican you don't understand, like, we'll just sit there and play music and cry and laugh. Yeah, and it doesn't even have to be thea An Mortos, which is obviously more special. But yeah, yeah, and they can't do that because they had to leave. And surprisingly, unlike the other lynjens that I discussed in the past several episodes, this one was met with disgust even in the American medium.

16:49 You know why, because those German Americans, these non American Germans. No, but that's good. The Dallas Morning News and you know what sar I should say. It was the bigger cities like San Antonio and Dallas who were appalled, Okay, who even now have a reputation of being more liberal than other areas of Texas. Yeah, so, the Dallas Learning News wrote, the news is not capable of producing anything that could express the horror and humiliation that it feels because of the crime committed by a mob at Thorndale. They were disgusted. San Antonio newspapers reported about the lynching in a similar fashion, but nationwide newspapers reported that Thorndale's finest men simply took matters into their own hands. Are you serious, what is wrong with them? A tradition that is so disgusting, that's like fucking gone. A tradition and culture of violence. Okay, yeah, when you say what is white culture to me? Violence? Yes, I mean I'm sorry from the beginning with Jennis and colonization and slavery, yep, and then this kind of shit.

17:57 But it also reminds me of Trump when he when the Charlottesville thing happened, and then he was like, there's good people on both sides, and it's like, hello, only one person with certain instead of believes killed somebody here. And they always say that, I always say both sides, both sides, and in the end, one side was extremely violent. Yes, And of course the Thorndale Thorn fucking stupid name, stupid. The Thorndale Thorn responded to this media coverage by Riddina Antonio had stabbed Charles Ceashan without provocation, which was not true. Even I'm sorry to say, even if he had stabbed him without provocation, it doesn't warrant there's a level of violence.

18:42 It warrants a fucking arrest. Nothing would justify this. It doesn't warrant Yeah, being brutally brutally killed, Like, that's crazy to me. After the Thorndale thorn said that he did this without provocation. Antonio did this without provocation. A Winness came forward and gave the account that I said, the first one where he was just playing with a carving a piece of wood and then he was surrounded by men. I just can't even believe this, and it happens now, you know, in the same age, and it makes me think of Trayvon Martin, who, yeah, like this is horrible. Literally, what I was gonna say in today's lynch mob is the police. Yeah, and that's why we should not join the military or become comms because these are the system.

19:25 Yeah no, but I say this as a veteran, so that's okay. The witness account led to the arrest of the four Thorndale men who did this, which shocked the town. Not the lynching. The lynching didn't shock the town. An attempt to hold him accountable shocked them. Yep. This is what they deserve, Like, I can't believe this, that's what shocked them. Yeah, they deserve to be held accountable for this. Yeah, yeah, right, And that's the system we have, so that's they're supposed to go through the system like come on. So the witness was a Mexican l named Antonio, very popular name named Antonio Alvarez, of course, and Antonio Alavadez had to be escorted to San Antonio because there were fears that he was going to be lynched too for providing this testimony.

20:13 So he arrived to San Antonio safely, and him along with the family was safe in San Antonio because unlike these small tiny towns, there was a large Mexican community in San Antonio where they could receive help from organizations like La Agroup Basion Protect Mexicana, the Mexican Protection Group. I guess what it would translate to. And they helped them by providing protection, financial help and organizing a mass meeting. And when they announced this mass meeting, they did so by passing out flyers that stead of the following. The Society has for its general purpose the protection of Mexican citizens throughout the state of Texas and for the specific purpose bringing to justice the perpetrators of the lynching of Antonio Gomez at Thorndale and Antonio Rodriguez at Springs. I shared last episode Wait how far apart did these things happen? Oh?

21:04 A year? Well, technically like six months if you look at the time period, but they are a year if you look at the number alone, like the year it happened, like end of nineteen ten and then mid six months. Yeah, six months. I guess what do I say? It like that? Oh? Oh I see? I see? Yeah yeah yeah, so six months apart. Sorry, sometimes i'd be saying shit that doesn't making any sing. Wow. Yeah, I was confused a validor response anyway, Yeah, six months apart? Like what the fuck did she just say? They passed out these fires, and they announced a June twenty ninth meeting, and the Mexican Consulate begged them not to hold a meeting because they were afraid of what would happened, but they did it anyway, and more than three thousand people attended the meeting, three thousand and During this meeting, they were like, well, what what are the ne wow depths? And some people wanted vengeance? Right, but then they're like, no, we can't be like them, like we're not going to use violence, which is like a very Mexican American thing to say, because it gone I understand that feeling or mentality of not wanting to be like because how many movements have there been within the Latino Latino community in the US, and the biggest thing is like be respectful, don't be like them. And it's like I'm sorry sometimes yeah, yeah, I'm saying. I'm saying and you know what, Sorry, I'm gonna go off the side a little bit here, but I think sometimes we need to act like Mexicans and in Mexico, are you gonna say what I've did? You're gonna say? I think so. But I don't remember her name, but she's

22:36 a creator on TikTok. Oh May, right, I want to say, that's her name, Oh May, Yes, I think so, but Oh May. She put out a video where she's like, these cultures are very different and like this is not what's on the point of the video. But in the video she says that Mexicans in Mexico they like they actually protest. It's like, real, what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to disrupt, write whatever is happening, and like that's not a thing here, and that's why the two cultures can never be the same. And that's almost why we can't even like progress here in the US because we don't do it like them, and it's such as Mexicans and Mexico it's like Latin America. They all movements are like legit. Yeah, but you're not to discredit like anyone that's you know, resisting and participating in organizations that are opposing yeah, tyranny, brutal immigration policies and things like that.

23:27 But yeah, there's a big difference and the way that people respond over there, like you know, they break shit over there, but a lot of them are met with the same comments about like how that's wrong, blah blah blah. So yes, yeah, that's what they were debated in this meeting. What do we do? How do we respond? And then the end they're like, well, we need to demand justice through the justice system. They had a petition where they all signed it. They drafted a letter. They send it to the US Department of State and the Department of Foreign Affairs in Mexico City and Texas Governor Oscar coquit replied what the letter, stating that he would send one experienced ranger to investigate the situation. And I will say as much as I've been sitting on the Texas rangers.

24:08 One of the things they did do was escort people to protect them. Like the witness that I mentioned earlier, he was escorted by a Texas ranger to San Antonio, Okay, to avoid being lynched. But I add that sometimes during these escorts they did the lynching themselves. So it's not like a thing to celebrate. My god, it's like there's like maybe one half decent apple in the bunch, and that's why that whole apple a thing. It doesn't work for me. It doesn't work in general statistically scientifically speaking. Right, While the Mexican community came together to demand justice for Antonio, the German community came together to defend the men that were charged with the murder of Antonio. Comes because they were the finest of Thorndale. Among them, those of the finest, I don't want to be any of them, no, exactly.

24:53 Among them was the son of one of the founders of Thorndale, of course. Yeah. And they were all part of the or prominent members of that community, sons of founders or like well connected families. Again Thorndale's finest men. Wow. I mean again, if you have a tradition of violence and colonialism. Then yeah, that is your finest men, of course. Yeah, like that's what you value, so of course you think that's just fine and dandy. All four men were indicted for first degree murder on October twenty four to nineteen eleven. They had separate trials, but jury selection was an issue because they couldn't find anyone who did not have a racial prejudice towards Mexicans. Of course. Yeah. Potential jurors were asked if the same standard should be applied to a Mexican defendant, if the circumstances were reversed, and whether the punishment for the murder of a Mexican person should be more or less severe than that for the murder of a white person. And every single member of the jury that they were screening scoffed or like laughed at the suggestion. Wow, the question, It was suggestion, It was a question. Yeah.

25:57 So they all showed clear racial biases, not surprising. Eventually they found a jury which again it was a racist jury. So they had to go with the right cist because there's no other option. There was no one else, no, unless they moved the trial to like New York location. So yeah, there was like no other jury members that were not racists at all. I forget how many days to find a journey for each trial, because again they were separate trials. Wow, and each trial for each man went the same. Witnesses were changing their stories, specifically witnesses that were supposed to testify for the prosecution. Oh they're probably scared. Hell yeah, like the last witness had to flee. Oh wow, And one by one the men were all acquitted. No, yeah, buy in all white racist jury. They and family members sometimes and friends. This is why it scares me. Like people that are founder like descendants of founders like these. Yeah.

26:52 How many people who have these kind of founding families or like a long history in certain areas of the country. How many of their ancestors can we traced back who participated in some kind of lynch mob like this, whether it was against a Mexican or black person, were Chinese or indigenous person? Yeah, yes, exactly right. And even if there was no lynching, how many of them held these beliefs defended their family from this kind of shit and they were acquitted. Yes at mat Hill. Like that woman who on her deathbed confessed she went on her whole life with this disgusting racist attitude, knowing she killed, she got a little boy killed. Yeah, with their fucking lies and her fucking racist shit of a family killed that boy.

27:41 And I off the top of my head right now, I can't remember what kate became of them, But I don't know. Did they get away with that? I don't remember. I don't remember what it surprised me if they did, No, but yeah, I don't remember. So yeah, like these people that were quitted got away with it. A whole fucking town. Hundreds of people that killed one little fourteen year old boy had their own children that they raised with these beliefs. And this is why we are where we are now, this is what the same place, This is why we are where we are. Yeah. Now, yeah, I thought you said this is my Roman Empire, and I was like mine two also, So yeah, one by one they were all acquitted, and the fourth man, the charges were just dropped against him because they were like, well, this's going to be another acquittal, so why even go through the trial and they just drop the charges. So the lynching of a fourteen year old Mexican boy went unpunished. And again, this is just one of many lynchings in the state of Texas. A couple years after this, nineteen fourteen, a fifteen year old fifteen year old Leon Martinez Junior was lynched for allegedly killing Emma Brown, a white woman, in Beccles, Texas.

28:53 He met twenty six year old Emma Brown just one week before she was found dead. The town was shocked when she was found and evidence at the scene showed that the attacker came from the east. There were bullet holes in her buggy, one in her and she appeared to have fallen from her buggy and then stabbed several times after she had been shot. They found her the next morning and the town immediately started looking for the killer, and because several people saw her talking with Leon again, a fifteen year old Mexican boy, he became the first and only suspect because he was talking to her that day. That's ridiculous and this is why mob violent is not right or vigilante justice is not right, because how do we know this person did it or not. That's why we have a whole system to find this out, yeah, which is flawed, and innocent people are convicted, sentenced to death penalties, which is why we should also be against the death penalty, because if one innocent person is in jeopardy of being killed by the state, then nobody should be killed by a state, right. I don't care if you get mad, and if anyone gets mad about that, no, I agree. Yeah, And it's the same thing, like this boy probably had no nothing to do with this woman being killed. And just because one racist person was like, oh, a brown boy talking to a white woman, not a mind watch, yeah, you know what I mean. Like, also, she was twenty six, he was fifteen. It brings me the question, why is she talking to him? That's what I'm wondering. What the hell, what business does she have talking to him? That's a real question. Obviously she shouldn't have been killed. Bet is justation. Yeah, because these boys,

30:25 these teenage and we gam I mean, it's like the story of Emma Hill again. Yes, they tried to say that he was whistling at her. This is a little boy. He probably didn't even look at you know what I mean, And she made it up. Yeah, it's a hyper sexualization of black boys and Latino boys. Yes, okay, I think that's sorry. We can breathe a little bit. Yeah, so they went looking for him right away, based on him being seen talking to her for very briefly like minutes. When they found him, he wasn't even attempting to run or hide. He was going on about his usual day working. He probably even know what was coming. He boss approached him and asked if he knew anything about a murdered woman from Saragoza, and he said no, and he went on his way clueless. Really, a group of men surrounded him as he was eating a watermelon and they demanded that he confess. He kept saying he was innocent, but the men kept threatening that they would to hang him if he didn't confess. Then, when they promised not to hang him if he confessed, he confessed. And this is also why forced confessions are wrong. And these people aren't even you know, anybody to be demanding confessions from anyone. No, during his trial, his confession was introduced at the trial, but not the way of getting that confession that ridiculous.

31:41 They didn't say he was forced, Yeah, they didn't say he was berated by a group of men that were wailder than him, were not even law enforcement, outnumbered, all demanding he confessed or they would hang him. Oh my god, that is a confession under threat or cursion is not a confession obviously, No, it's come on, come on. During the trial, this is the following story that was presented. Emma Brown promised him sex and later they met at their arranged time. But when she got there, okay, so she was a peto. Yeah okay, but when she where did they get thisation from? It's unknown? Wow, like supposedly from him, but I don't believe it. Ah. Yeah, so they said, yeah, Emma Brown had promised him sex and later they met at their arrange time. But when she got there, she said, you sent up a bitch. I'm going to have you arrested. And he was like, that's not necessary. I'm only there because you said you were going to give me sex. His story doesn't even make sense. No, it doesn't. Oh my god. She told him she would kill him, and then she reached for her hip and scared, he pulled out his weapon and shot her. This makes zero sense. Then he went to eat, have dinner and work.

32:47 Who the hell goes to eat rather to kill someone? I mean, some people do it, I guess, but what the hell I mean? Some people do? But this doesn't make any sense, but that's what they said. He said during a confession or something. You can't even make up a good fun story because they're stupid and they have no creativity. No, they can't. Yeah, but he has a different version of events, which I'm going to read it from page eighty four of this book, and which I fully believe a lot more than these stupid people. Yeah, I am fifteen years and two months of age. Oh sorry. They also kept saying he was eighteen. They kept insisting he was eighteen, of course, to make it sound a little more okay, that they're going to kill him. Okay, so he said, I am fifteen years and two months of age. It is not true that I'm eighteen years old.

33:28 I was born in eighteen ninety six. I did not kill miss Emma Brown. I knew nothing of the murder until the Mexican told me about it shortly before my arrest. I never had any relations with miss Brown. I worked in the store and post office at Saragosa and often waited on her selling her some goods. On the morning of the killing, I placed her goods in the buggy and untied her horse. That was the last I saw of her until I viewed the body. They made me sign that confession. I told them I was innocent, but they told me they would kill me if I didn't sign a confession. I was frightened, and I did it. They said that Miss Brown was killed about five o'clock in the afternoon. I could have proved that I was in the store in that hour, but they wouldn't let me. I believe him. I believe him too wholeheartedly. Yeah. He was declared guilty by the jury and then sentenced to death pretty quickly after that. Hundreds and hundreds of letters were sent to Governor Colquitt pleading for a pardon. He was known to party in criminals. He gave out like a thousand pardons a year and when he was governor, so wow, it wasn't a reach to be like, can you pardon this boy for something he didn't do? Right? Yeah, So he received hundreds and hundreds of letters from people in San Antonio, mostly advocating for him still, or to at least give him a life sentence, but to let him live, not to hang him. But nothing worked. He was scheduled for his hanging on May eleventh, nineteen fourteen.

34:45 His only request was to wear the Mexican colors when he was hanged. I I don't know why that did it. This whole thing is horrible, and I think it's just now catching up to me. Also though it happened because he was Mexican, so of course he's got I gonna we're the Mexican colors. I'm that's right. Yeah, on the ridge of tears too. But I'm more mad right now than angry, So that's why I haven't cried. But seriously, fuck fuck them, Fuck them. He wore the Mexican colors, and he stood on this scaffold and he said he was innocent and a calm demeanor. And he was known for his calm demeanor the whole time he was in jail. Oh my god, he was fifteen. He was just a little boy. Yes, let's all take a moment together, okay.

35:31 And I wanted to highlight these two cases because again they are all the cases that we know of are important, but these are two of the most well documented. One marking the beginning of the matanza. One just kind of like showing that it didn't fucking matter like to anyone or any any of them, you know, lynching was legal. His lynching was legal, and it goes to show. I mean, I don't think we need to remind any of of our listeners, because you guys are all, you know, geniuses based based g yes. But what's legal is is not always right. And that's why I wanted to talk about these two specifically. They're not the same, but in some sense they are. You know, yes, but they are. And so that's why I pivoted to this for because I know I said I was going to be getting into the Texas Rangers. I'm not mad at you're pivoting. It's just a little like you're not expecting it and then it happens, which is fine. And even though it makes us mad and we cry and it's infuriating and it's sad that this was done to our people, it's important to talk about these things because these attitudes did not go away. They remain here, and we're seeing it in this same age, and now we're seeing it perpetrated by Mexicans too, extra Americans, maybe even the Techanos who were there, you know, during this time and their families continued to be in the area, and now all of a sudden, they think they're not Mexican. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many generations you've been here, you know, to the kind of people that enact this

37:03 kind of violence, they will never accept us, Like it doesn't matter how deep you lick their boots, you know, exactly, if you buy into whiteness like it doesn't it's not gonna protect you, it's not gonna save you. Yes, I don't want to go into another like rant, obviously, but I want to say that, like at first, the people that doesn't know their history, they don't have a future. We need to know what happened to us. If we don't, we're out here voting for Trump. Yeah again not Mexican men, but Latino men. And that generalization is who helped him. And again he's just part of a system. He's not even the whole thing, right right, Besides the point, the point is that we need to But and when we talk about like buying into whiteness, like it doesn't mean like the white person down the street. Whiteness and then of itself is a system, yes, a system of colonialism, yeah yeah, and uh yeah, colonization, And that's what we're talking about. We're not talking I have white friends. Okay, hashtag not hall white people. That's not the point though.

38:07 The point is to learn that this is what was being done to us, and that's why you shouldn't be voting for the people who were have this legacy right or voting And I'm just gonna I'm gonna stop. And now it's being done in the form of lynching your mom violence. Today, it's ice, it's the cops, you know what I mean? And what are we seeing Like just this week alone, I've heard, well, within the last few weeks, we've heard of how many teenagers And that's what I thought of, Like when you mentioned the ages of these boys. Yes, like we've seen teenagers being taken by ice, and of course it happens, but I'm like, I mean, currently, I know the high school junior Marcelo, he was freed, but currently there's a fourth grader being in an ICE attention center right now, being detained and a nice on his parents away from his parent I'm like, why, Like, nobody should be detained, but why add on that separation? And this legacy of what we're talking about informs what is happening today. Yeah, and yet you see Mexicans celebrating this Mexican Mexican Americans sorry, saying like, oh, they should have kill the Ray Green. It's like, shut the fuck up, Shut the fuck up, just shut up for real. Yeah, I don't. I can't even express how tired I am of seeing this dumb ass shit. Even Oh, dependents knew what they were getting into, they knew the consequences when they brought their children here. They shut up. You're not

39:40 special because you were born here. You're not special if if your parents came the supposed right way, which I doubt they did. The right way was on a boat to come and kill all the indigenous people who were here and lynch Mexicans. That was the right way, and then be white and come and just be let in after that. Yeah, that's the only the right way other than that, like you know, yeah, yeah, and we could go on and on, but we won't. Let's not. You're right, that should probably end because then, well, yeah, we'll go on, and should we should? Yes? Next episode I will be getting into the Texas Rangers and the Botivnid massacres specifically, and then the hearings that follow the Putavinian massacre. The canals hearings. So yeah, that's gonna be the next episode.

40:22 But yeah, other than that, I don't know. Go go hug a little Mexican teenager, please, whether it's family, friends like please, no, no, no no, do better than that. Stand up for immigration, immigrant rights. Support your local immigration organizations. If you can't be there in person, you can donate. You can spread awareness so you can speak out against these injustices because these things are wrong. They are wrong. Yeah, don't let anybody make you think this is normal. Do not make anybody make you think that they're going after criminals, and even if they were criminals, don't let anybody think that it's okay to treat anybody in this way. Yes, thank you, thank you. They are always calling me in I'm just kidding. Shut up. We hope this was one lesson Storia Unknown for you. Bye bye. Astoria Unknown is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources for every episode attias Unknown dot com and in our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot of work, so if you want to help us out financially, you can do so by supporting us on Patreon at patreon dot com. Slash Studied as an own podcast