Cesar Chavez Part 4

0:07 Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is Estodia is Unknown, a podcaster. We talk about Latin American history. Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption, and genocide. But more than that, it talks about resistance, power and community. And you know, I feel like this whole series has been a mix, a good mix of like that of all of that resistance power, community, corruption. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I would definitely agree with that. And man has been a wild ride that we're still on. We're not off the Cesatio Chavis ride. We're not. We are still This is part four of Cesar Chavis, and this is where we're going to get into the more culty things. Like I promised last episode, My notes are a little long, and Carmen is in a bad mood.

0:58 Now I'm just kidding. No, no, no, no, I'm not a bad it's very tired. Yeah I was kidding. But yeah, so I might cut this into two parts. If you're a patren member, though, you'll get the whole thing in one. Go wow wow, okay, because we're gonna record it all okay Patreon members. Oh all right, So yeah, let's just get into this we're starting off. In the fall of nineteen seventy four, there was a New York Times magazine that headlined like this article is Chavis beaten? WHOA? Because by now, like I said in the end of last episode, the UfW had lost most of its contracts to the Teamsters.

1:40 They had lost so much money during the lettuce strikes. It wasn't clear how or if they would recover. Those closest to Chavis were still like hardcore believers. But I'm a lot of a lot of farm workers who were previously under UfW contracts, we're now working under Teamster contracts. Me While sister Chavis was headed for Europe to try and gain supporters there to boycott certain produce and just talk about Lacausa, although a lot of people were a little unclear about why he was going, but no one questioned him on vacation. Yeah, They're like, what are you what are you doing there? Exactly? Like, what is this going to do for the union in the long run?

2:21 There was no clear answer. I was gonna I was gonna say before he said that, I'm like, is that is that the bescuse of his time? And that is a question that will resurface again and again. Is you know, one could say that it wasn't in the long run, but let's get into what happened. So the article was published during his flight to London, but it didn't face him. You know, he was in European Care. He went to Stockholm, Geneva, Hamburg. He was gonna be his best life. Yeah, his best touristy line, Brussels, Paris, like all the it's cities in Europe. But this was not as successful as he hoped it would be. There just wasn't a lot of response. And it's like, yeah, you're really care, yeah care? White people here don't care. Would you imagine that white people over there, the og colonizers. Dude, you took the line out of my mouth. Wow. Yes, So and to gather myself okay.

3:26 So yeah, he was like feeling a little dissolusioned until he went to Rome. Okay Rome, because you know he's a hardcore Catholic. Oh that's right. And the Pope had already they are already aware of what Sasar Travis and the Union was doing or attempting to do, so they felt it was important work and it was it is Yeah yeah, yeah, we like again we have been sane. We are not in no way we are minimizing the work. That's such as did no, we just again, we just want a full picture. So yeah, Rome was it for him. He loved it. He met with the Pope. The Pope made a speech about the importance of the Mexican American community.

4:09 He gave Sessa Chaves a rosary for Helen and like those medayas and we all warned, Wow, so special h for his kids, straight from the Vatican. Yeah, Saysa. Chavis gave him a United Farmworker's flag. Then the next day there was another statement from the archbishop who basically said Cesar Chaves was the embodiment of how a Christians should live their life because you know how the importance he put on like sacrifice, yes, sacrifice, and like pain, you enduring pain, man. Catholics lived for that shit. Yeah, they love it. And this was like Cessa Chavis's dream come true, to be like revered by the Pope and the art imagress. Yeah. Yeah.

5:01 While such Javis was living his Catholic boy dream, his cousin Manuel Chavez was doing some things I would personally deem uncatholic of h in the name of Lacausa. So, oh my god. Okay what okay? Sisu Chavis had already for years now shared his sentiment on undocumented workers, like it goes back to even when he was part of the CSO, and how he, you know, didn't like the Brasseros because they were like scab scabbers. Is that what it's called. I think it's just scabs scabs? Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, So, you know, he made his feelings towards undocumented workers very well known, but it only got worse after the failure of the letter strikes. He would say things like, if we can get the illegals out of California, we will win the strike overnight. Whenever the strike wasn't going well, he blamed undocumented workers, calling them worse things. You know. Yeah, he often said the CIA was involved in a conspiracy to bring in illegals to undermine the union. This was not true. Like, yes, the CIA and the corporate overlord to want to exploit people from the cheap labor exactly like that. But people never want to find the corporations, do they, because that's

6:31 too communists. Yeah. So, with saysar Chravis's approval, and with union money. Manuel Chavist set up what he called wetlines. Have you heard of this? I don't like that. No, I don't think I've heard of it, But just from that name alone, I don't like it. The name is derived from wet back. Yes, I figured figure out. So these were patrols along the Arizona border where the let US strike was happening. Oh my god, he had his own minimen. Yeah. But they were all UfW members, Oh my god. Yeah. Their job was to stop those trying to cross in search of work, because they believed that everyone crossing the border was scabbing. I'm so sick of this. Yeah, oh sorry, this was during a lemon strike. There's all these little strikes. I'm not gonna ye all them, but this was during the lemon strike in Arizona. And yeah, that's so, that's why they set up this wetline and the patrol. Of course, they didn't know who was crossing to go specifically into farm work, or who was just crossing.

7:36 I mean, there's no way of different different or knowing who was gonna work where. Yeah, no, not at all. So they often used violins to stop people from crossing the border. These were just some incidents reported by the Yuma Daily. A seventeen year old was beaten by the UfW patrol while five cars were torched. A lemon picker was a tack with a black jack. Unsure what a black jack is? I tried looking it up. Is that a black jack like the card things? Or am I just thinking of a jack? Like is a black jack? I don't know? Someone if someone knows. I tried to search what this was and I just kept getting the card Like yeah, I feel like I feel like I'm right because it has to be something like they can be used as a weapon, that's true. Yeah. A twenty three year old Mexican was beat with a hose and then robbed. Why were they Okay, if you're supposedly like if your reason for doing this is because you know the supposedly the undocumented people are stealing your jobs, why do you need to rob them? Like, no, this is just because you're a hater, like a street or behater. Yeah. Yeah.

8:47 Two men were beaten and then they're border crossing cards were stolen. So these were cards. It's like a temporary TISA has a specific name. You can like cross your lead crossing with right that and they were so sting. They're not like undocumented, not these not even that if that would make it right. But basically anyone that country in Mexico is like game pretty much, even though they are also descendants from Mexico. Like yeah, like you you look stupid, you know, historically and presently anyone who's doing this. Another man was found hiding in a bush naked. He had been taken from the he was taken from there, beaten, his clothes were taken and he was just dumped by the border. And then he like that is just sadistic. Yeah, it really is. This is another incident who men were beaten.

9:45 One of them had burns on the side of his feet and they were yeah, and thrown into the river after what got dead. So they were killing them yeah yeah, Wow, I'm shocked. Like I knew they were deporting them, but I didn't know they were like physically harming and killing them. I'm all about this quote unquote wetline or these beatings. Wow. Then these were reported by the Yuma newspaper in Arizona, but the reports from Mexican newspapers were much much worse.

10:26 They reported daily fire bombs that were placed under cars how they were set on fire. Wow. They confirmed at least thirty seven beatings within a month of the wetline being set up. They released pictures that were people who had been beaten by the Chavistas, which is what they called themselves. They also uncovered that the UfW had bribed officials in San Luis, So right across the border in Mexico, to not do anything about these beatings or their little wetline. Oh my god. Okay, Like if my opinion says such chaws couldn't get any lower, it actually can. Like I didn't know that, yeah, and like this was the work of Manuel Chavis, but the approval of Okay, I was gonna say, like, yeah, sure he didn't know every little thing, but he knew that the wetline was happening. Yeah, and that alone is enough for me to be like, I don't know. That's a note for me. Dog, let's stop celebrating to such chaw as day. We should end the holiday.

11:25 Actually I'm down with that, I am. I am no. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do a petition on Change down to stop celebrating. And it's like it's like that thing that that debate that happens every fucking I don't know a few months on social media. That's like when someone horrible dies and it's like, don't speak ill of the dead. They can't defend themselves. Men. First of all, fuck them and their mom. Okay, And this goes for Reagan and his wife, yes and no, but not only that, but also like the thing where they're like, oh I thought you were in the representation, but at what cost? Oh yeah, he's one of the only celebrated Latino figures. But is it worth it knowing all that? It is not worth it? Oh? Like, is it worth knowing all of this? Is it worth celebrating him knowing this? Okay? I thought you were saying, even though, is it worth finding out this information about him? And now I was gonna say, yes, oh yeah, you know I love learning this kind of stuff. So is it is it worth upholding someone who yeah, did so good but also did a lot of bad. Later, you know, after his passing and some of the stuff came to light and some former members like you know, spoke out a little born publicly about what happened. A lot of them hold the opinion that like the good still outweighs the bad and so such how it is, I don't know.

12:49 I don't know. It's so hard. It's so hard to really to say. But I mean it definitely tarnishes what could have been. I mean it still is in some people, guys. But to me it turns wi is what could have been a good legacy, you know, right right? And also all this to say like are there good people? No, we're skidding No, no, not that, not that, but question about that, and I forgot already. Damn. Maybe I'll come back to you. Probably not. I don't know, No, I don't think so. Anyway, back to this, So, the Confederation of Mexican Workers, which is a union of specifically Mexican workers who used to work with Minor Chavis and with the uf W, they supported their efforts. They broke all ties with the union over as they should have me did. Yeah.

13:42 They called the wetline a campaign of terror as it was, as it was, and they even cited some cases of Mexicans that had been drowned or castrated by by Oh my god, it's terribly horrible. When Sisa Chavis was told about these incidents, he just said that it wasn't true and that people were just saying this to undermine the union, and of course his closest supporters, who were like blind to everything he does, he just believed him, supported him, like he could have done his due diligence and really looked into these matters instead of just turning a blind eye to it because it was working to what he wanted, which just to terrorize undocumented people. Yeah, because he was what is that word I always forget that's not racist but xenophobic. Yes, wow, I always forget that word. I don't know why. Oh, I don't know. Yea and yeah, and so you know, the close closest to him believed him.

14:44 Despite the actual full blown investigation by the Mexican police that confirmed at the very least the bribery that happened, they were still like, nope, it was so bad that Burt Corona. Do you remember Bert Corona? You know who that is. He's a Chicano activist. He's been mentioned throughout some episodes here and they're like one of the student walkouts and when to say, we said his name, but he's a prominent Chicano activist in the Arizona area. Okay. He staged a protests at the Arizona border because of the wetline. Wow. I wonder how public this was. You know, it was public and for someone to protest about it, right exactly, and it was known within Arizona Yuma, especially because you know they were actually public lying, like publicizing articles about it. There was even a recorded conversation between Sasad and Manuel where Sasa Chavis is telling Manuel that they can bribe the police to cut costs of the wetline so they can bring back some UF to view members from the patrol because it was costing more money.

15:48 So it wasn't like to stop doing this, yes, to save money. The Mexican government even issued a warrant for Manuel's arrest over over this. Wow. And then El mal Criado that you have to Wu's newspaper put out a page talking about the Mexican president and that like made Mexico mad, and they arrested Manuel Chavi. I don't know when he was doing Mexico, but they arrested for three days then they let him go. But throughout all this, as such, Javis continued to protect his cousin Manuel. When he was asked about all the money being spent on the wet lane, which was a lot. He told the board that like computers were just screwing up their account and like that's why it looked like it was more money than it was, and so on. And so while he berated other people for like spending ten or twenty dollars and that they needed to cut you know, this spending, he just let like Manuel, he gave like manuela blank check for the way. Wow, do you know, like do you have those numbers anywhere? Like like how much? At one point it was costing like eighty thousand dollars a week to keep up the wet line. Oh that's a lot. Yeah, that is a lot. Yeah. And the board they kept quiet on all this. They didn't they didn't fight or question, of course, because they're never ridiculous. Yeah. Then SUSU Chavez launched what he called the Illegals Campaign. He said that

17:19 Nixon and the Board patrol were not doing enough to keep illegals out, so he would and so then the he got the UfW to like now start identifying illegal quote unquote illegals and forced the government to support them. And so he put I think I've said this, but the uf W ran on volunteer work and a lot of the volunteers were very young, and oftentimes they were like very young teens like you know, eighteen nineteen who had been raised within the community because their parents got involved and they all stayed in the area to support. Yeah, I remember seeing them. A nineteen year old Liz Herche whose parents had been involved and who moved to Delano when she was twelve. So it's again, this is what she's been involved in her whole life. Her parents were actually kicked out doing that first purge, but she stayed.

18:12 She actually lives with the Chavisis. Oh wow. Anyway, she was put in charge of this illegals campaign. How old was she? Nineteen? Okay, yeah, so she you know, phrase or not phrase, but she said she didn't like this, but she, you know, she did what she was told because she was a firm believer in the Union and in SISA Chavis. And again this is like, ah, this is all she knew. So she created a form and then distributed it. And this form was called the Report on Illegal Farm Labor Activity. And the form had a spot for the person's name, the nearest Border Patrol office number, home address, the growers number, the names of those who gave the quote unquote illegal worker, food transportation in housing.

19:01 It also had a section for how they crossed and what they earned. My god, this is something the brain of Ron de Santisco would come up with, like right, right, But nope, and that was says such Javis, and the National Lawyer's Guild, who previously supplied interns for free for the union, refused to participate in this illegal scene. Yeah, and so when they refused to do this, such Ivis like broke all ties with them, fired all the current interns. So then they lost a lot of their like legles. Legal. Yes, this is a quote straight from the book that I have been talking a bunch about that I love and I the crusade A, says such Javas almost forgot that name.

19:48 So where that support of the campaign, but suggested they change the terminology because some of the people found the words wet back and illegal offensive. The people themselves aren't illegal, she said, their action of being in this country, maybe it's illegal, Maybe it's illegal. Chavis turned on where that angrily. No, a spade's a spade, he said, you guys get these hang ups. God damn it, how do we build a union? They're wets. You know, they're wets, and let's go after them. That's what he told her. I'm with on this one, and only even then partially because she supported the action. She just didn't like the term. I just meant her words right now in that moment, yes, okay, yeah, and that I was in agreement. Yes. And then here's just one more quote from the book, just to really cement how he felt about immigrants. So Chavis dwelt on that point, frequently lamenting the difficulty in organizing people who cared about money.

20:47 They needed to be educated to appreciate sacrifice. Immigrants come here to become rich. You know, it is so ingrained in them. Although they they're sympathetic and they want to help you, Goddamn, they missed one day's word and they think they're going to die. Excuse me, shit, that's what I said about undocumented workers. Do you know how much they make? Yeah, they miss one day of work, they are going to It's like a life or death moment, Like when you're you make so little money, like the money. No, they're trying to serve and nobody, nobody knows more about sacrifice than an immigrant does. Like, do not make me go on this rant, they leave behind everything they know.

21:32 I'm gonna I'm gonna cry. I'm so mad. I was. I was infuriated when I read that. Sometimes, fuck you. If I get the holiday, I'm going to work. I don't care. I'm working that day. Sometimes I'm like, damn, why are we Why do we work on this day? But we like used to get Columbus day off. I don't even care. I will work on since Tavia's day. I don't give a fuck. You know what, what kind of shit is that? Like that's just so annoying. I feel like, especially on that day, I'm going to find something to support, like undocumented workers, you know what I mean, like a hundred hundred percent many infuriating, absolutely infuriating, Like what like he's over here on making up his his sacrifices, right, like finding ways to torture himself because yes, he had whatever a hard life, but it's not you know what I mean? Like do you know what I'm saying? Like no, I know you're making up your own suffering. Like and now, yeah, these people like you know, traveled hundreds of miles, left behind their loved ones, missed their loved ones, and it was even harder back than to communicate, you know what I mean, Like, oh my god, Oh, they only come here to become rich. Like I know a lot of people.

22:49 We didn't come here. We don't need to get into the make enough money. Yeah, but like back home to like what do you mean just it's like they come here for a better life. But and you're here fighting for higher wages yourself, talking shit about other people wanting to be rich. But the goal was supposed to be higher wages for United farm Workers by the end of this No, I know, yeah that that was not the case anymore. I can't believe this bought this man? When is this holiday in March right? Just so I can prepare March thirty first? Yeah, just no, but yeah, and like you know, here, things are getting really culty now.

23:38 At some point when so such I was hurt his back, he started to believe that it was like related to his diet, and he blamed the Mexican food for being so unhealthy. You self eating, bitch, going fucking nargoula, Then you dumb bitch, be white. God do you want? So he became a strictly vegetarian. He also had nothing processed while Helen and his kids ate traditional Mexican food. They loved meat and yeah whatever, like you know when it comes to food, don't like to reach their own. Just don't be ado about it. But he was a weird a whole culture. Yeah, and their food. Yeah, and especially maybe your own dumb your own, yeah, dumb bitch. He was super vocal about it and then his because he talked about it so much. He likes. He never directly said, you need to eat like I do, but he would say this so much that his like, he highly implied to his cult members that they need to eat the same thing he does. And so they did. They did.

24:47 They adopted his diet, which included a weird carriat juice regime. He would say things like, I wouldn't eat my dog and cows are just like them. I mean, that's fine if that's what you think. You know what I mean. But you can eat. You can't even have to get food and be vegetarian. I was vegetarian for like two months. Yeah, I know this. I ate a lot of rice and beans and eggs. Yeah, And so this just forced Helen to like cook extra to change. He doesn't even funk about Helen no, poor Helen, that poor woman, like literally sacrificing like everything bending over backwards for this piece of shit.

25:31 Oh man, so this like him believing this cemented like this good person image that his good others were like fucking stop like Larry, Larry was over, but Larry's gone by now, right he said fuck this ship like a while ago. No, yeah he did, but I'm just like saying, like Larry, others were like, you know what my petition is going to be to change that time's day to very ely on day. Personally, that's what I will be up to that. And it seems to be like we don't know. I don't I haven't read anything about him, but you can't you can't be too right now, I'm assuming that he's not like Chavist because he opposed so many things about such Chavist. So that's what I believe right now, right now, and that's what we're that's what we know right now. So yeah, don't come for us if it's different. Oh you can tell us like yeah, oh yeah, yeah, actually I do want to read it more.

26:26 If there's like books, I'm gonna search, I'm sure them. Yeah, I'm like I want to know more so, during a meeting with the Teamsters in New York, one union leader told him just to act like a union leader and not a saint. And I quote, get off your fucking knees. Let's not make it a cause, make it a fucking union. We'll buy you unee pads if we want to fight a holy war. Damn. And honestly he deserved it. Yeah, just such Chabas didn't care what they said about him. He was just gonna, you know, like, if you were like that, but you weren't full of hate against people more vulnerable than you, than fine, you make a show out of it, you know what I mean. But it's just hip hypocritical, Like at this point, you know, one hundred and instead of like listening to this union leader that told him that, of course, he did the opposite. Yeah, I forgot the phrase. He dug down. Oh and and that is a double down. Sorry, that's what it is.

27:26 He will keep on doubling tripling down it gets worse. So then such Tis proposed the Poor People's Union the PPU is when he the acronym. He proposed it to the board at the end of nineteen seventy four. He wanted, mostly because he wanted the poor whites of San Juaquin Valley to become allies because they were very anti UfW, and so he was like, well, if we help them be less poor, then maybe they'll become allies. And he had all these like ideas about getting senior citizens on a fixed income helping the community. Only those who qualify for government help would receive membership in this group. To keep up the middle class, there would be communal homes with gardens and union that all sounds great. It sounds great, but also like so idealistic. Yeah, like union sponsored farmers' markets, and like for his most loyal followers, they were like, wow, this is so inspirational, and everyone else is like, oh my god, just like be a union leader that you're like you keep your toes on the ground. Yeah. The UfW and the farm workers are right here right now, and this is all supposedly to help them, Like they need help right now. Yeah, I stop with these grand ideas that like they're not going to go anywhere. How is this going to happen? Literally sounds impossible because it is sadly like, yeah, that'd be great if it could happen.

28:56 You know, around the same time, Jerry Brown had become governor of California and farm workers' rights were a big part of his agenda, so they were working on introducing a bill that would help farm workers. This was happening at the same time that the UfW announced the boycott of the Gallo Wine Company. Gallo Gallay interested in learning about this. Some people I know worked there, Yeah, some people. You know, they're one of, if not the biggest, one of the biggest employers in Santa Sauce County apart from Stanisas County itself. Yeah. Yeah. They organized a four day march from San Francisco to Modesto. Ten thousand joined the protest.

29:42 I love that. Yeah, and this was actually finally like one of their bigger successes because the union was like going downhill like fast, but this was an actual success. Ten thousand people joined the protests, which, yeah, the union really needed. During the speech, Sasachavis addressed Jerry Brown directly. He was like, I tried meeting with your daddy and he didn't want to meet with me back in you know, years ago in the other big protests where he didn't meet with them, your mile marg Yeah, that was his dad nepotism anyway, because now you know he's a governor. I'm sorry, I didn't know that Jerry Brown was a NEPO baby. Yeah, his dad was the governor. When the first I didn't realize then Brown as the governor's name.

30:30 I actually don't know if he said his name Jerry Brown. I said, oh wow, I don't remember that at all. Okay, But what I was confused about is what actually I guess maybe there was a contract negotiations that maybe weren't working out. But what confuses me is because at the time, the Gallow Wine Company, they were one of the higher pain jobs for farm workers. So what do you mean. Are you saying you're confused why they were protesting. Yeah, that's what I was, And I tried reading about it, but I'm like, I I fully don't know. Maybe even though they were one of the highest paid, it was still very low. That's true. That's true. So this whole Ordeo was a victory for them. And but even Gallo had, like when the protest was happening, they put out they put out this giant sign that said, like talk to the state, not us, because we pay very well. Hm hmm.

31:24 Interesting so that's what I'm I'm confused about. I don't know, I don't understand. I didn't read too much about the specific protests because I had so much to read. Yeah it does it go into it in the book or no? No, just really what I said right now? Oh okay, So it's like something you have to look up, really okay, and I I tried to look up on the internet and that was not really define either. So I'm not sure. I think I have to go to like La Pass and to the UfW archives and like something. Yeah, honest, you don't know. So unfortunately, I'm not sure what the protest was about exactly, but I'm like guessing either more benefits or even better wages, because you know what, you can never be there's always a better wage on a say.

32:15 So I don't know. And so you know, during the speech again I said, Sasa Javis address Jerry Brown directly, and then there was a bunch of meetings back and forth. I'm not gonna get into it because it's a lot, but the California Agriculture Agricultural Labor Relations Act was signed into law, which was a victory. Although Sasar Travis was a little like do we want this law to pass because now it's going to make things like more official. And but for those that don't know, this is from Wikipedia. The California Agricultural Labor Relations Act or CARLA, is a landmark statue in the United States labor law in the United States labor law that was enacted by the state of California in nineteen seventy, establishing the right to collective bargaining for farm workers in that state, and this is the first in US history. The goal of the Act is to ensure peace in the agricultural fields by guaranteeing justice for all farm workers and stability in labor relations.

33:16 It explicitly encourages and protects the right of agricultural employees to full freedom of associations, self organization, and designation of representatives of their own choosing to negotiate the terms and conditions of their employment, and to be free from the interference, restraints, or coercion of employers of labors. Basically the right to unionize. I think, yeah, yeah, that's what it sounds like. Yeah, and yeah, it really is a win. But sister Jervis was quick to remind them that it was not time to celebrate because they still had to fight for wages and benefits. There's always more work to do. There's always more work to do. No time for yeays, no, nay. Anyway, he was worried that a law would kill the movement, as he believed that I could actually see that because I feel like that happens a lot where people think like, I don't know, like the civil rights law was passed, Okay, now racism is over, you know, like that type of thinking, because yeah, because I can understand that. Yeah. Yeah, he was worried or kill the movement like it had with the Civil rights movement. Oh, speaking of that, Yeah, he talked about how the movement needed to change and how you know, just again more super idealistic things that are just like why he talks about helping build unions in Europe, the Philippines, all of Latin America. They're like, our union is still like struggling, holding on by a thread. Man like focus here, yeah, get your head out of the clouds. Seriously.

34:45 And again this was more for skeptics of him there. It was more like stop and focused in the union and other people like, yeah, maybe the union did go on to win contracts that had lost over the years, Excependolino, which made it, says our super because that was like where they began, right, Deleano was tired of to such Iver was, I know that, and again, there's so much that goes into these elections. Yeah, I'm not getting into it. I can't. I can't. It's also a little dry for me him getting that, So it's boring. It's boring, That's what it is. I fear that I left too much in about the elections and shit in the past episodes, and I'm like, oh, I'm bored of this. Anyway, during these elections, says such I, was continue to blame and documentary workers for losses. He just he needed someone to blame. Yeah, in nineteen seventy six, there was a Proposition fourteen that was being put on the California ballot, and it also happened around the same time that elections happened. Because these happened every year, and these things have to happen every year, and that it should be in the interest of the UFLU to try and win these elections. Most people wanted them to pursue election work campaigning, say such I just wanted them to focus on Proposition fourteen, and they were like, even if it passes, like like we need to focus on elections. But he was like no, and because everything happened that he wanted, everything goes as yeah, yeah, and

36:17 that's what they did. Yeah, And so really quick Proposition fourteen, and this is according to ballot Pedia. I yes, vote for Proposition fourteen would be to allow union organizers to enter places of employment to campaign for elections, appoint new members to the Agricultural Labor Relations Board, allow the board to conduct hearings and make determinations about unfair labor practices and require payments for violations, and direct legislature to provide sufficient funds to allow the Agricultural Labor Relations Board to fu those specific responsibilities. So I mean like all normal things, honestly. But the problem is that the growers are just they have way more money for like marketing, and they marketed hard for a no. So the no vote would mean that union organizers could not enter places of employment for campaigning due elections. Basically the opposite of everything else that I just said. Yeah, I'm not going to read what am I was going to read like everything specifically, and the growers the way they marketed Proposition fourteen. It's like, if you vote yes on this, this means that they can trespass your property to do whatever they want. Yeah, it gave them permission to go into the farms to try and get them to vote. Right, But the way they present our it is like, do you want your home invaded? Yeah, it's just another way to weekend unions. Yeah. Yeah.

37:44 And the I mean they had just had way more money the proposition. Yeah, everyone predicted they weren't going to win this, and they really should have focused on elections to try and get contracts for workers. That's what they should have been focusing on. But sis is Shavis was like no proposition for proposed to fourteen, which they were never gonna win. It was impossible with the type of marketing and the money that the growers have. And just like many predicted, Yeah, proposed fourteen lost and it's like super upset to such a as he took it personally, more purges followed. So he blamed Nick Jones, who was the UFW's national boycott director, for the loss of this proposition.

38:25 He had been one of the only ones to actually publicly say that he they should like, would it be the best use of UfW resources if we focus on proposition for teen because I don't like, I don't think we're going to win. That's what he said. And because he said this, he was the target. He's like, you undermined me. Yeah, of his anger. So and a little bit about Nick Jones. He grew up in North Dakota, dropped out of college, moved to Delano, where he worked at the Migrant Ministry, which did work with the union. And so after a few months of being in Delano, he met Virginia Rodrigue, who was a daughter of farm workers and a farm worker herself. She became a full time worker for the UfW. The two got married in nineteen sixty seven, and they were like fully in the union.

39:10 They were they had moved to you know, the city to help boycott grapes. They had done all this work. Their lives were one hundred percent the union. When Sisa Javis was doing his first fast in nineteen sixty eight at forty Acres, they were one of the first to pitch tents like outside to support him. Again one hundred percent devoted to Lacausa. And so now Nick Jones was the target of Sister Javis's range and just because he could. He also targeted two people that worked for Nick, not worked for him, that Nick Jones had recruited into the United farm Workers, Kathleen McCarthy and Joe Smith, who had bon both been in for a long time. Both were devoted believers in Lacausa. She was a nurse at the Delano Clinic and during a meeting, says Sar, Chavis accused her of being a spy and that people in the clinic were trying to undermine the union. Then he met with her individually, where he accused her more of being an agents. She burst into tears, ran out crying that she was like walking around the pharm all like lost and in tears and sad. And then she ran into Joe Smith, and so Joe Smith was like, all right, well, what why did you do this? She's not a spy.

40:30 He went to talk to as such Chavis, and you know you can't ask him this kind of stuff. No, So he had been put in charge of El Marcriado during a nineteen seventy six retreat, and so for the third time the newspaper was restarted and the first issue was ready. The board reviewed it, so did Sas Sar Chavis. They were like, this is great, great work. They even applauded him. After Kathleen ran into Joe and Joe went to confronts a sad child about her being accused of being an agent. That's when the second issue was set to come out. So when he showed them the second issue, Sis Sar Javis berated him and I'm gonna read this to you because it's terrible. So okay. So again they had praised the first edition when I came out, but that was before they had Joe Smith had confronted, not even confronted, asked Sis Sar Chavis why he did that to Cathleen. Right So after this and the second issue was set to come out, Sisa Chavis said to him, to Joe Smith, I have some very serious questions about the first fucking edition, and I'm pissed off at you very much because you couldn't have fucked up. We laid it out, We told you exactly what to do. It's a fucking game you're playing. It's not a mistake. This board tells you what to do in the first edition, and you didn't do it. Don't tell me you forgot.

41:58 I'm not going to buy it. You must have had some special reasons for doing it. And then it's like, you know, Joe confused. He's like, I'm not trying to run a game, Like just what are you talking about? Joe? Yeah, and then sins such. Chavis was like, you'll have a hell of a time convincing me different. I wasn't born yesterday. And so Smith, Joe, he's like, I didn't ask for this job. You asked me to do it, and I did it. Like he's like, bitch with the fuck you. Yeah, He's like, I would never do anything to do like to cause harm to the union. Why would I want to do that? And then that was like bait versus such jabs because then he's like Nick Jones was standing next to him, who had spoke about about proposition fourteen. Right, So then when Joe Smith said why would I want to do that? Says such Javis turned to Nick Jones and he was like, I want to know why. You tell me why you're the one. It was your recommendation why we hired Joe in the first place. You should know why he's why he's trying to undermine the union.

42:59 And so yeah, just messed up. Yeah, that's tyrannical, man. Yeah, so they were all three of them were kicked out. The board voted to and the newspaper for the fourth time. Wow. Yeah, he had accused Nick Jones of being part of a left wing conspiracy theory to destroy the union. First of all, only right winged organizations destroy you do that kind of shit. Yeah you should know this on man, that's uh one o one right there. Seriously. So then, so said instructed Fred Ross and Gans. I know I mentioned his first name in one of the other parts, but yeah, I was familiar. They just been long time uh workers, Like Gans was one of the lawyers, and Fred Ross he's Fred Ross. Yeah. So he instructed both of them to interrogate everyone who had been part of the Proposition fourteen campaign to quote unquote routed out the assholes. During these meetings, Sasa Chavas would stand outside the window eavesdropping, and if he overheard someone complaining about the leadership, he jumped through the window and yelled at them, Oh my god, come on, that is over the top. Yeah, it's insane, truly, Nick Jones, he was still trying to like defend himself and like he again, his whole life had been the union, so

44:30 he was trying to defend himself and stay. And he had one more meeting with SASA Javis during which SASA Chavis accused him of recruiting spies into La Passe. And so after that meeting is when Nick finally resigned, and then his wife Virginia went with him. Both of them wrote a two page letter together where they laid down the accusations that were brought against them by Sisar Chavis. And obviously these accusations weren't true. They weren't spies, they weren't trying to undermine the union. Yeah. The reason for all this is because as he had spoke out about if campaigning for purposation for team was the best use of their resources. That's why this was happening. So in this letter they wrote about how they were deeply concerned about the direction that the union was heading in. And I do have the letter. I'm just going to read part of it really quick. Okay, we are deeply concerned about what we perceived to be serious internal destruction of the United farm Workers of America. And they urged the board to stand against the accusations and firings of full time staff based on the flimsy say so, whims and innuendo which the accusers are not held responsible to substantiate.

45:39 So like such as can't just go around like they should stand it up to all these firings and not just take his word for it, which of course they didn't do. So when Sisuchavis received this letter, he also fired Joe Smith, and he had, also, like Nick Jones, requested a meeting to dispute his firing, and Sisar Chavis gave him the meeting, but he made it a board meeting so everyone else was present, and then like no one set up for him. Wow, And unlike the earlier purge in the Union, this one was a little more public. La Times wrote about it. They published the letter that the Jones wrote. Then they got more letters from Joe Smith and others who had been fired, and it wasn't a good look. Sesar Chavez offered explanations to those closest to him. They were always a little similar, Oh they're undermining the union. Oh their agents, their leftist spies, like the same shit, and they just accepted what he said. Damn.

46:42 He went on to say that there was two types of members in the union staff, those who came from nothing like the farm workers, and those who came from privileged backgrounds like Nick Jones. And those who came from privileged backgrounds were the ones who complained and who didn't just swallow orders, and that the farm workers didn't complain because the UfW is not a democracy. It was the cheeratorship, it really was. So the complaints and curtenticism didn't go away, and this made sister Chavis only get way worse. He started purging people in public. Oh my god, escalating. Yeah, when specific night became known as the Monday Night massacre, Oh, oh my god. And it happened on April fourth, nineteen seventy seven. And I'm gonna again read from the book because that's just insane, Okay. So he called the community meeting, which he had scripted roles for, and this is what the Monday Night Massacre was. So it was chaired by Gilbert Bardiya and his wife Esther, and so they had to read the following, which was written by Sasa Chavis.

47:52 We know who you are, and we're sick and tired of it. We want some action. We want you to get the hell out of La Pass. We want you to get the hell out of the union since that has been busting his assa for so many years. To build this union, so many people have been sacrificing the whole Travis family. You have the audacity, the audacity to try and destroy our union, what we have built, what we have sacrificed for. It is sickening. We want some action. We want it now. And they had like practice who was going to be fired. Those that knew Most of the people that had been targets were like too shaken to try and defend themselves. One group that had been like targeted during this was women who you know, they did a lot of the work in the camp when it came to like cooking and cleaning because La Bas was like at this point sort of coming to commun space. Yeah, and so they had been complaining about how they had to use this old ass kitchen that wasn't fixed up, and so they were all fired. Wow. Some of the firings were done by Sisar Jervis's son Paul, and Dolorus's were thus daughter. They did some of the firing. Is that what you say? Yes, yeah, they did, And they were just like yelling at people, very NEPO, very one person who tried to fight back and like was like, I didn't do this. His name was David McClure. McClure, I don't know how to say it's law same. Anyway.

49:16 He was a plumber who had been hired to help with the much needed construction projects around that pass because again, this was an old sanitorium, like they needed a lot of work. He had been accused of being a spy and he denied. He denied the allegations, and then he refused to leave. Siss Travis had to like get involved because he was just letting his son and those were the daughter do it all. So then he got involved. He said that they knew he was calling making daily calls to the conservative senator and I can't say it was law same. And he's like, you know, we have the evidence, we have documents, and you know, to defend himself, he was David was like, I'm calling them because there's engineers there, Like I'm calling the office, Like I'm calling them because of the work that I'm doing for the union, Like what the fuck? And you know, there was just yelling back and forth, was yelling at him, you're a fucking agent. You're you're goddamn right, you are, you're a fucking agent. We want you out of here. And yeah, when people came to defend him, then they were like they were basically like dragged out, damn. And then those that were kicked out, they weren't even allowed to use the phone if they had gotten like I mean, some of them were living there at this point, you know, there was no cell phones, and they didn't even let them use the payphone afterward to like call like hey, come pick me up, like nothing, like that's fucked up. Yeah, oh, David,

50:49 they had to call the police. They called the police to get them out of la pace. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, And like anyone who came to his defend was then also kicked out. So it's somehow this like mass firing didn't even make the newspaper either, like although the other ones before that did. And so after this purge, the union entered a new chapter. So such, I always told them that the board that the union needed a drastic change. They needed to be a movement or a union, but they couldn't be both. They had to pick. And then he called a board meeting. We're now in nineteen seventy seven and this board meeting the so the board didn't know this at the time, but the board meeting was held at one of Synanon's compounds. Synanon enters the chat. Yeah, and I think this is where we'll end part this part. Okay, the next part we'll get into. We're ending with Synanon. Yeah, and I will get into a next part. But synan On, it's a cul Maybe we should recommend some good synonym episodes, like podcast episodes. Real they talk about it personally True and on Yes, their series, it was a few episodes, right, Yeah, so they have a series. Is it called The Game?

52:09 I think so. I'm pretty sure if you look up True and on the Game, you'll come into their whole. They go into cynan On and then Elon School, which if you know the what is it called lore, the history, uh the teen trouble trouble tea industry, trouble team industry. If you know about it, then you've come across the name Elon's School and the game and all of this and so there that's a really good podcast to check out those specific episodes, because yeah, they get into the history and one of the hosts actually was sent to. Yeah, these type of schools, but it's bad, it's bad, it's terrible good and yeah, and there's some ties between the uf W and SIN and on and it starts here.

52:58 But yeah, we'll get into a next episode. Do we want to do a little outro here? Do I do one by myself? Later? All? Right? Well we were on a little break last week, but we're back for good for now nine. Yeah, let us know your thoughts on this part. How we've ruined such us for you yet yet? Yeah, this is where things are gonna get very serious after this worse. Oh my god, I felt it was like serious enough with the whole line. Was it good, Wedes? Yeah? Parts four and five is where it really like everything got there? Man? Wow? What was this? Was part four? Right? This is part four? Okay? Wow? Wow? Well tune back in next time for part five of our Journey of Ceceechavis and Yeah, I mean thank you for listening. If you have enjoyed the podcast so far, please rate us a five star rating. Leave us a five star rating on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, anywhere you can rate podcasts. You can also leave us a nice litter review. We love to read those when they're a nice little review. Actually, we don't have that much bad. We don't have better views on Apple podcasts. That's only place look for abees anyway, Please love us. Yeah, a good little review, you know.

54:05 Afraid the shout out to our Patreon members, Chata, you're gonna get these questions if you want to be your real one, if you want to be as cool as Chata, and get this at free and at the same time Parts four and five join Patreon. Okay, patreon dot com slash Estonia's Unknown podcast link us in the show notes and yeah, thanks everyone for listening. Will be or I guess we hope that this was one less Estonia Unknown for you. Yeah, it was for me. It definitely was true. We shocked me. Wow, I'm floored. All right, Well end that Okay, bye everyone, Bye,