May 15, 2025

Carmen Rodriguez and The Patient Bill of Rights

Carmen Rodriguez and The Patient Bill of Rights
Spotify podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
Audible podcast player badge
PlayerFM podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player iconApple Podcasts podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconAudible podcast player iconPlayerFM podcast player iconPodcast Addict podcast player iconPocketCasts podcast player icon

Carmen Rodriguez was treated at Lincoln hospital just a few days after the Young Lords occupied the building. The care she received directly led to the creation of the Patient Bill of rights.This is part two of last week's episode.

If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/

Want ad free episodes? And weekly bonus episodes? Support Historias Unknown on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/HistoriasUnknownPodcast

Follow on social media:

Instagram: https : //www.instagram.com/historiasunknown/

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@historiasunknown

Music Credit: Hustlin (Instrumental) by Neffex

This episode was edited by Bex Carlos & Alex Rogpe

Sources

https://disruptnow.org/defining-the-enemy/young-lords-expose-murder-at-lincoln-hospital
https://disruptnow.org/tag/healthcare
https://centerforhealthequity.cornell.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/fernandez-intro.pdf
https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/lincoln-pediatric-collective/
https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/224c69d9f2c44c31a7654fde7108f08f
https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/young-lords
How We Occupied a Hospital and Changed Public Health Care

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support .

WEBVTT

1
00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:11.759
Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is

2
00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:14.320
a Studias Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin

3
00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:17.839
American history, sometimes a horrible and deals with tibetop It's

4
00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:22.280
like racism, corruption and genocide. And today we are continuing

5
00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:26.960
with the Young Lords, the Lincoln Offensive and Carmin Rodriguez

6
00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:29.519
and what led to what we all know today as

7
00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:33.759
a patient bill of rights. You don't need a refresher, right, okay,

8
00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:36.119
fresh in my mind. So in part one we ended

9
00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:39.240
with the Young Lords leaving Lincoln Hospital, and in the

10
00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:43.240
days that followed, the offensive became the center of political

11
00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:46.399
debates in the city. Conservatives called the occupation of the

12
00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:50.759
hospital of vigilante action and denounced it, of course, and

13
00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:53.159
they even called that the mayor for having sent the

14
00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:57.920
chief assistant to negotiate with quote unquote extremists. And in

15
00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:00.920
the meantime, those in charge of the hospit hospital agreed

16
00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:03.280
that the statements made by the Young Lords were valid,

17
00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:06.519
but they disagreed with the actions of the group. And

18
00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:09.480
as all this back and forth was going on, something

19
00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:13.680
that sparked action was about to take place. So on

20
00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:17.319
July seventeenth, nineteen seventy three days after the occupation of

21
00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:20.519
the hospital, thirty two year old Cadvan Rodriguez went into

22
00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:24.319
the hospital's gynecology services for a scheduled abortion. She was

23
00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:26.760
a mother of two living in South Bronx and she

24
00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:29.120
was pregnant with her third child, and she had been

25
00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:31.959
a long time patient at Lincoln and she also happened

26
00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:34.280
to be a member of the Young Lords as well

27
00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:37.400
as the member of the Logos of the What Logos

28
00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:41.239
Logos Yeah and Logos was a community run heroin treatment

29
00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:45.599
center in South Bronx where doctors from Lincoln also volunteered,

30
00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:48.959
and she herself had received treatment at Logos because she

31
00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:52.719
struggled with heroin news herself, and so everyone that knew

32
00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:57.239
her described her as carrying, kind and intelligent. She inspired

33
00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.680
everyone around her to treat each other with kindness, and

34
00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:05.239
she was known to always carry around books by Khalil Gibron.

35
00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:09.599
He was a Lebanese American writer, poet and artist. He

36
00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:12.039
was often called the Prophet. That's what he was, just

37
00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:16.199
known as the prophet and a philosopher. And here's one

38
00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:19.159
of his very short pieces of writing, just so you see,

39
00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:21.960
this is what she was carrying around. If you reveal

40
00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:24.360
your secrets, to the wind. You should not blame the

41
00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:29.400
wind for revealing them to the trees. Oh wow, I

42
00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.520
liked deep. Yeah, I like it. I like it. And yeah,

43
00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:35.639
she carried one of his many books with her every

44
00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:38.319
single day. And just two weeks before she had been

45
00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:41.719
scheduled for her abortion, the state of New York legalized abortion,

46
00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:46.439
but god Man had been approved for her procedure under

47
00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.240
the old law, which was only for life threatening reasons,

48
00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:54.639
because god Man, if she had if she delivered a baby,

49
00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:58.479
it wouldn't dager her life because she had rheumatic heart disease.

50
00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:01.919
And so once she arrived in the clinic for her procedure,

51
00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:05.479
the resident on call performed a sailing based abortion, and

52
00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.879
soon after injecting the sailine, Goatmin became short of breath.

53
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:12.840
The resident assumed got Man had asthma and repeated the action.

54
00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:16.199
He gave her more sailine and a different medicine that

55
00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:20.080
was not good for people with heart disease for asthma yice,

56
00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:25.240
And so she obviously worsened. And this sailine that's used

57
00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:29.120
for abortions is very hard on the heart, and yeah

58
00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:32.400
it was with her condition, it was not good. It

59
00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:36.080
put her into a coma from which she never recovered.

60
00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:39.919
She died three days later, and for some reason, there

61
00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:43.879
was no chart on Godman at the hospital. The resident

62
00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:47.400
didn't ask her for her history. That's wild, right, And

63
00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:51.520
she was by all accounts well spoken and very smart.

64
00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.000
And I mean you could tell by you know, the

65
00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:55.639
books she was carrying around. Could they possibly have gotten

66
00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.080
rid of the chart or they just never did one.

67
00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:00.039
I don't know, they just didn't have one. Wow, I

68
00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:02.680
don't think they even looked for it. And so he

69
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:05.000
could have asked her like, well, what's your medical history,

70
00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:08.080
and she would have known to say the important piece

71
00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:10.800
of medical history, which is that she has heart disease, right,

72
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:13.000
and then they would have known to not administer the

73
00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:17.120
kind of treatment that they did exactly. But the doctor,

74
00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:21.560
the resident didn't explain anything of the procedure. She didn't

75
00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:23.600
know she needed to say. She didn't know what it entailed.

76
00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:27.319
So she didn't say anything either, and nothing was explained

77
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:29.560
to her, because yeah, if it had been explained to her,

78
00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.600
maybe she would have been like, well, hey, if you

79
00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:35.240
know the doctor said this thing where injectine puts a

80
00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:36.959
lot of strain on the heart, maybe it would have

81
00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.079
prompted her to say, oh, I have a heart condition

82
00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:41.879
right right, But they didn't explain anything to her. They

83
00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:44.839
just did it, which is insane to think about in

84
00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:47.720
this now in the present. Yeah, So no one did this,

85
00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:50.199
No one explained that, they just did it, and because

86
00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:57.399
of this, she died on July nineteenth, nineteen seventy. The

87
00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:01.240
day that she died, TLC activist which if you don't

88
00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:04.399
remember from part one, but TLC was the group Think

89
00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:09.000
Lincoln Committee that was made up of doctor's residents at

90
00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:12.759
the hospital, local residents of the neighborhood, and young lords.

91
00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.279
So TLC activists demanded a meeting with the top top

92
00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:19.800
person of the hospital, doctor Antero Laca La Cote. I

93
00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:24.279
don't know, Lacot Last, I'm just gonna say last, I

94
00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.439
don't know. During the meeting, they were told that Catman's

95
00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:31.879
case was extremely complicated, so complicated they wouldn't even understand it.

96
00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:34.600
So they didn't explain it. What. Yeah, They were like,

97
00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:36.800
well you were not going to understand what happened. So

98
00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:39.639
it was just complicated, that's it, that's why it happened. Whatever.

99
00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:43.759
The TC was like, nah, no, we're not Yeah. So

100
00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:46.879
they held rallies. They occupied buildings of the hospital, nothing

101
00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:49.079
at the scale of the Lincoln Offensive, but they did.

102
00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:53.279
They wouldn't leave certain buildings in protest, and the group

103
00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:57.199
called for a compensation for cadimnd Rodrias's family, for the

104
00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:00.240
removal of doctor JJ Smith, who was the head of

105
00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:04.360
the abortion clinic, or if they wouldn't call for his removal,

106
00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:07.879
if he reinstated this black obgyn who had been fired

107
00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:10.720
for sending up to them. That was their other demand.

108
00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.959
They also called for the establishment of a community worker

109
00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.600
committee to oversee the abortion clinic, and they also demanded

110
00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:21.040
for the clinic to be renamed after Catman. And during

111
00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:25.839
these protests, someone leaked her record, her medical record to them,

112
00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:28.759
to the group, and it was probably a doctor who

113
00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:31.680
was like, yeah, this was fucked up on their side,

114
00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:34.399
or yeah, this is where they learned that she had

115
00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:39.519
died from medical negligence, and this only obviously increased the protests. Yeah,

116
00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:42.519
that's why I feel like they got rid of her

117
00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.120
chart or whatever because they didn't want to like and

118
00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:48.720
obviously this is speculation because there's no evidence of this,

119
00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:51.800
but there was medical records for her, Like, doesn't that

120
00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:54.160
mean there should have also been a chart. I don't

121
00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:58.600
know ran right. Even at this point, non TLC members,

122
00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:01.680
even the doctors at the clinic who were not sympathetic

123
00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.839
to the Young Lords or the TLC, had to realize

124
00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:09.079
that they had failed garment, Like this was literal medical negligence,

125
00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:12.240
things that they had already been calling to fix. The

126
00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:14.720
Young Lords they were saying, like, patients are always seen

127
00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:17.000
and these are common complaints that they got in their

128
00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:19.639
medical complaint table, you know the table they set up

129
00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:21.839
at the er where people came in, the grievances table,

130
00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:24.040
that's what they called it. But yeah, patients were always

131
00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:27.399
seeing a different doctor. Oftentimes there was an inexperienced student,

132
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:29.879
and there was never a follow up from visit to visit.

133
00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.879
And so if there's no follow ups and there's always

134
00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:35.879
different doctors, nobody knows what's going on with these people.

135
00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:40.639
There's no real continuity of care right as there should be. Yeah, yeah,

136
00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:45.120
mm hmm. Because of all the demand for meetings from

137
00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:48.959
the Young Lords and the TLC, hospital administrators agreed to

138
00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:53.040
hold what they called a clinical pathological conference, and what

139
00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:57.079
this was was a public hearing or hospital administrators presented

140
00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:01.160
Gotman's case, her diagnosis, her treatment and the complications that

141
00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:03.319
led to her death. Like they put it all in

142
00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:06.360
this public forum, like young Lords were in the audience.

143
00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:09.240
Anyone from the public that wanted to attend, including her family,

144
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:11.600
were in the audience. They were free to ask questions.

145
00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:14.399
There was even doctors from other hospitals who were like

146
00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.199
in the audience, cross examining the doctors at Lincoln Hospital,

147
00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:20.319
saying like what you should have done this, You should

148
00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:22.560
have done this, like this should have been different, which

149
00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:24.800
is like this was like the first kind of meeting

150
00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:28.000
like that, Yeah, m hmm. And it was considered a

151
00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.120
good thing, even though the audience was full of angry

152
00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:34.360
people calling out the doctors. You know, even the doctors

153
00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:37.919
that Lincoln recognized that this was important and that they

154
00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:40.799
viewed it as them being held accountable to the community.

155
00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:45.440
But as historic as this meeting was, it only escalated

156
00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.879
the situation. The Young Lords put out, you know, in

157
00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:52.840
Palante in their newspaper they charged the hospital with genocide.

158
00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:56.679
That's the words they used, and they published the following

159
00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:00.279
in the July thirty first Pallante issue. And I'm just

160
00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:02.600
going to read what they wrote. Our people are being

161
00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:06.159
killed every day. The facts are cold, and real drug addiction.

162
00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:09.960
Inadequate housing, and inferior medical services all contribute to the

163
00:09:10.039 --> 00:09:13.559
slow killing off of our people. Another very specific way

164
00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:16.519
genocide is committed is through the limiting of our population.

165
00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:19.679
When drug companies came out with a million dollar birth

166
00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.679
control pill, they tested it in Puerto Rico. As a

167
00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:26.919
result of years of experiments in quack operations, tying of tubes,

168
00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:30.000
cutting of tubes, one out of every three sisters of

169
00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:33.799
child bearing age on the island is sterilized. Those sisters

170
00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:36.679
that they have not been able to sterilize, or on pills,

171
00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.919
loop and all sort of jive methods to keep us

172
00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.039
from bearing warriors that will join the fight for our liberation.

173
00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:46.600
Just recently, on July first, nineteen seventy, a new plan

174
00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.720
for the limitation of our population was passed, the abortion Law.

175
00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.240
Under this new method, we are now supposed to be

176
00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:57.080
able to go to any city butcher shop the municipal

177
00:09:57.159 --> 00:09:59.960
hospitals and receive an abortion. These are the same hospit

178
00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.600
that have been killing our people for years already. The

179
00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.639
first abortion death has occurred at Lincoln Hospital butcher Shop

180
00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:09.440
of South Bronx godvent RODRIEZ thirty one went to Lincoln

181
00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:12.320
seeking an abortion. She suffered from many of the diseases

182
00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:15.399
that afflict all oppressed people. She was at one time

183
00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:19.000
addicted to drugs. She suffered from asthma, anemia, a severe

184
00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.519
heart condition. With all these health problems, she was sent

185
00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:24.200
to the operating room without her medical history chart even

186
00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:27.799
being checked. She was injected with medication for asthma. However,

187
00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:30.639
that type of medication use is the worst possible for

188
00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.759
a patient with a heart condition. But how are they know.

189
00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:36.600
They never bothered to check her chart. The punk that

190
00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:40.360
was treating her was a student. Lincoln is affiliated with

191
00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:44.759
Einstein Medical School, which assigns inexperienced students to learn medicine

192
00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:47.559
by practicing on our people. He continued to give her

193
00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:50.960
this medication until finally her heart stopped. Then they proceeded

194
00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:52.480
to open her chest up, but by then it was

195
00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:55.960
too late. Her brain had been damaged. Gotama's brain stopped

196
00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.159
functioning on July seventeenth. Although she was dead, the hospital

197
00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:02.159
tried covering it up until July twentieth, when her heart

198
00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:06.519
muscles stopped beating. Doctors have recently decided that death occurs

199
00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:10.240
when the brain stops. This death was no accident. God

200
00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:13.639
Man died because America is killing our people. Got Man

201
00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.720
was forced to go for an abortion because under this

202
00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:20.840
capitalist system which that which is our right, food, clothing,

203
00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:23.720
and shelter is kept from us. Instead, we become the

204
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.679
drug addicts, the prostitutes, the ill, and the hungry. What

205
00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:29.279
choice does a sister have when she is pregnant thinking

206
00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:32.080
of providing for her child? Will he or she grow

207
00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:33.919
up to be a junkie or maybe die in the

208
00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.039
wars created by American greed and madness. We know there

209
00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:40.399
is but one choice. Armed self defense and armed struggle

210
00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.519
are the only means to liberation. We will continue to

211
00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:45.919
five for our liberation. We will continue to serve and

212
00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.600
protect our people in the hospitals, on the streets everywhere.

213
00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:51.120
We know that the realities of oppression will continue to

214
00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.559
force our sisters to seek these abortions, and so we

215
00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.320
will continue to educate that this genocide will only stop

216
00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:59.240
when we rise up against our oppressors. I mean, they're

217
00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:03.120
not wrong, and it's super interesting. I don't remember what

218
00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:08.960
I was listening to or watching. They talk about reproductive

219
00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:15.799
rights and how in the United States, black, indigenous, and

220
00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:19.360
women of color have had to fight for their right

221
00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:23.360
to have children while and of course it's like very

222
00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:26.840
throughout like history or whatever. And then how white women

223
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.759
have had to fight for their right to not have children,

224
00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.919
but how it all falls under the umbrella of reproductive rights.

225
00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:36.840
But how often we don't think about the right to

226
00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:40.360
have children as a reproductive right. And you know, here

227
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.639
they're talking about abortion, but they're talking about like women

228
00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.440
are not able to have like children on their terms,

229
00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:51.720
not only because of health issues, but because of capitalism. Yes,

230
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:54.360
And is this not the same thing that came up

231
00:12:54.480 --> 00:13:00.159
also during the sterilizations in California episode, because it was

232
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:05.759
the same argument while white feminists were protesting in these hospitals,

233
00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.320
arguing with the women who were protesting against the serilizations,

234
00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:12.960
It's like, it's the same argument. And if they only

235
00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:19.120
expanded this definition of what they are seeing as abortion rights,

236
00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:21.559
they would see that. But because they were so busy

237
00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:24.399
trying to keep their right to not have children, they

238
00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:28.279
were encroaching on the rights of these Mexican women in

239
00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.720
California who wanted to have their children and weren't able

240
00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:34.600
to and who had that taken away. And there's a

241
00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:38.480
long history of this happening to non white women in

242
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:42.039
the US and Puerto Rico, which they specifically mentioned in

243
00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:46.799
the Panante issue, the sterilization of Puerto Rican women. I

244
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:49.159
mean one third of all women in Puerto Rico. It's

245
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.360
a lot, yeah, and it's right and correct to call

246
00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.840
it a genocide, because stopping a population from reproducing that

247
00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:01.360
is genocide. The Young Lords and the continued to protest

248
00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.879
and demand meetings, and on the twenty fifth of August

249
00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.279
of nineteen seventy, they met with the head of obgyn,

250
00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:11.559
doctor JJ Smith, and they repeated their demand that he

251
00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:16.720
stepped down, he leave, and that the only black doctor

252
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.039
who had been fired for sending up to them be reinstated.

253
00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.159
Those were their demands other demands this meeting that they

254
00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:25.679
had had been going on for two hours, more than

255
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.440
two hours at this point, and the Young Lords were like, no,

256
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.080
we're over this. They decided to act like they're not

257
00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:34.919
going anywhere, and so they declared that they were firing

258
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.000
doctor Smith themselves, and they forcibly escorted him to his

259
00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:40.799
own car by pushing them and telling them, no, don't

260
00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:44.279
ever come back. Wait, I love this, Yeah, get out

261
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:49.399
of here, don't come back the fuck out here. The

262
00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.039
Young Lords, justifying their actions by saying, if doctor JJ

263
00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:56.440
Smith had conceded to even some of our demands, and

264
00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:58.960
if the administration hadn't tried to cover up what we

265
00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:02.159
knew was all to common now Lincoln, the daily disregard

266
00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:04.879
for the lives of people of color, we wouldn't have

267
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.120
had to take the actions that we took. M hm.

268
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.360
And yeah, I agree. I'm sorry call me an apologist

269
00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.440
for the Young Lords, but I agree, yeah, me too.

270
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:18.399
They were forced to do that. You know. Other doctors,

271
00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.159
those who did not align with the Young Lord's views,

272
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.559
demanded to know why the Young Lords were even allowed

273
00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:25.399
to just wander at the hospital. They're like, why are

274
00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.120
they even here? Like they don't even go here is

275
00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:30.639
how they viewed it. Yeah, they don't go here. But

276
00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.559
the top top administrator, doctor Lassett la Cote, I don't know.

277
00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:38.000
I still do not have his name. Anyway, he maintained

278
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:40.440
that even though he did not agree with their tactics,

279
00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:44.799
they raised valid concerns they did. Yeah, yeah, And he

280
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:48.000
let them keep their complaint table in the er. He

281
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.840
let them keep the daycare they had established during the

282
00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:53.559
Lincoln offensive that was still running. He was like, those

283
00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:57.240
they're staying and doctor JJ Smith and did her resigning.

284
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:01.600
I should emphasize that the doctors who were on board

285
00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:03.559
with the Lincoln offensive and with the Young Lords were

286
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.440
er doctors. This is all happening in the obgyn department,

287
00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.960
so different doctors. When doctor J. J. Smith resigned, twenty

288
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.559
seven residents and interns in the obgyn all went on

289
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.720
a ten day strike. They only returned because the city

290
00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.519
threatened to end the millions dollar contract that they had

291
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:25.960
with the Einstein Medical College, like if these residents and

292
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.559
students don't return, were ending this contract, and it was

293
00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:31.000
like twenty eight million dollars or something like that that

294
00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:35.279
the hospital received from the college to train residents there.

295
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.360
But the doctors still only agreed to go back if

296
00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:41.440
the hospital finally kicked out all the activists. And so

297
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.399
the hospital did file a restraining order against the Young

298
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.559
Lords and the TLC and the hr UM all the

299
00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:51.960
activists they could, They filed this restraining order. But even then,

300
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:58.399
the doctor Lanco Lunkot Lanson, he told the New York

301
00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:01.080
Times that the Young Lords helped moved the hospital toward

302
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:03.879
change and that he would let them keep the daycare

303
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.200
and the complaint table. Still, but by now city officials

304
00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.240
and courts and mainstream media were all working together against

305
00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:13.759
the Young Lords. The New York Times published an editorial

306
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:16.720
talking match shit about the Young Lords, Like the New

307
00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:20.400
York Times, right right, the source that I now, yes,

308
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:24.160
truly the source that I use for this. And when

309
00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:26.920
they wrote about this, they said it was scathing, not

310
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:31.839
SKay skating. Yeah. In this editorial, they portrayed the striking

311
00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:35.160
residents and insurans as heroes and the Young Lords as villains.

312
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:39.799
The editorial very strategically left out that the Young Lords

313
00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:42.400
were already running a ton of programs through the hospital,

314
00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:46.400
like the Pediatric Collective, like they're led offensive with the

315
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:50.039
X ray truck and all the TV door to door testing,

316
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.519
and so they left all that out and instead they

317
00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:55.680
called them the Puerto Rican imitation of the Black Panthers.

318
00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:58.799
And then they said they created a rude right, like

319
00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:02.880
what the fuck? They created a climate of fear and conflict,

320
00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.279
and they harassed doctors and nurses, and they even used

321
00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.039
words like they invaded the hospital, which I'm like, some

322
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.839
could say, you know, if you want to use that terminology,

323
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.839
you want to be all typical about it. If you're

324
00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:20.079
going to be all weird about it, and all writing

325
00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.319
about it. To me, they were taking it back, they

326
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:28.960
were occupying right, these are yeah, And so then republic

327
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.839
conservatives like senators in the city started saying things like

328
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:36.720
the superintendent of the hospital was held hostage by extremists,

329
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.559
m it was a meeting, and then they cocked out.

330
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.920
Really yeah, if he was truly held hostage, they wouldn't

331
00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:48.119
have let him go, right, right, And so all these

332
00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:50.279
kinds of reports were being made about the Young Lords,

333
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.680
and so even then, though even though the media was

334
00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:56.359
portraying them in this way, the Young Lords continued out

335
00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:01.160
of acating for the community. And even before got Rodriguez's death,

336
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:04.640
they had written a version of demands that they then

337
00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:08.839
added to after she died, which would become the Patient

338
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:12.119
Bill of Rights. And so these demands that they wrote

339
00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:16.160
are ten and it's the following. One. To be treated

340
00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:20.240
with dignity and respect. Two to have all treatment explained

341
00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:22.799
and to refuse any treatment you feel is not in

342
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.920
your best interest. Three to know what medicine is being

343
00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:29.119
prescribed and what it's for and what the side effects

344
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:33.000
will cause. Four to have access to your own medical chart.

345
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:37.400
Five to have door to door preventive medicine programs. Six

346
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:39.920
to choose the doctor you want to have and to

347
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.839
have the same doctor treat you all the time. Seven

348
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.359
to call your doctor to your home. Eight to receive

349
00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:50.759
free meals while waiting for outpatient service. Nine to have

350
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.720
free daycare centers in all hospital facilities, and ten to

351
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:59.400
have free healthcare. Okay, I mean I am for all

352
00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:02.839
of those things right, right, And Lincoln Hospital did adopt

353
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.200
most of these, with the exception of like the lass

354
00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:09.920
three really the females, the free daycare, and the free healthcare.

355
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:14.640
And soon hospitals across the US started adopting the same

356
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:18.559
list of rights okay, and they all use the same name.

357
00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:21.720
The young Lords use the Patient Bill of Right. And again,

358
00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.960
except for the last three, nobody did that. Nobody gave

359
00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:30.240
us free health care. And these practices did improve medicine

360
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.559
in a lot of different hospitals, which makes sense. I mean,

361
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.079
if you're being told what is going to be done

362
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:38.920
to you, you then have the right to say first

363
00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:40.559
at least you know, but second you have the right

364
00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:44.079
to refuse whatever. Also, being treated by the same doctor

365
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:47.000
every visit, if it's like your primary care doctor, they

366
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:50.240
know what's going on with you, they know your history. Yeah,

367
00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:52.799
like all these stuff really do make sense. Yeah. And

368
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:57.119
so in March nineteen ninety seven, President Clinton appointed the

369
00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:01.440
Advisory Commission on Consumer Protection and Quality in the Healthcare Industry,

370
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:04.119
and their purpose was to advise the President on changes

371
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:09.200
in healthcare and he tasked them with recommending measures that

372
00:21:09.319 --> 00:21:13.799
promote and assure quality healthcare to protect patients and workers.

373
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:16.519
And the Commission was tasked to develop what they were

374
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.440
calling a consumer Bill of Rights and Healthcare, which would

375
00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:24.720
be enforced in all levels federal, local, state. And this

376
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.200
list they made was official in nineteen ninety nine to

377
00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:32.559
be implemented by all places, like including offices that are

378
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:36.119
currently being defunded, like the Office of Personnel Management, the

379
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:38.839
Department of Labor, the Deprimand of Health and Human Services,

380
00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:43.559
the Department of Veterans Affairs, yep, everything literally everything, Yes,

381
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:46.759
and that is the bill of rights we know today.

382
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:50.880
That's so wild to think something we see and sign

383
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:54.160
probably like when we're getting established, I don't know, let's

384
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.240
say with our primary every single different clinic you go

385
00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:00.839
to or any time we go. Yeah yeah, yeah, it'll

386
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.160
be everywhere. It is everywhere, and you sign that you

387
00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.079
understand it? Yeah, right, And it came from our people,

388
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.839
from the Puerto Ricans, from the Young Lords, the Puerto Ricans. Yeah,

389
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:14.319
the one that we see and signed today has eight

390
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:19.359
principal areas of rights and responsibilities like information disclosure, which

391
00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:22.559
is really number one on the list. That the Young

392
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.960
Lords had, choice of providers and plans, access to emergency services,

393
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:32.880
participation in treatment decisions, respect and non discrimination, confidentiality of

394
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.960
health information. All these things are included in the current

395
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:40.400
Bill of Rights that we all follow today. Even before

396
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.559
it was officially implemented, it was already being adopted by

397
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:47.160
hospitals like everywhere. And it's wild to know that, like

398
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:50.720
you said, this came from the death of Godman Rodriguez

399
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:54.000
and the Young Lords and their activism. They did so

400
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:58.319
much in health activism, it's insane, like think about really,

401
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:01.480
the Young Lords continue the activism in the hospital. They

402
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.559
even opened the South Bronx, the talk center on the

403
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:07.839
sixth floor. So even though the hospital tried and tried

404
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:10.720
to keep them out, BI couldn't. You can't keep the

405
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:15.720
people down until I mean we I think I spoke

406
00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.920
too soon. No, I think you and I both know

407
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.039
what you know came next. Yes, see activism of the

408
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.519
Young Lords unfortunately continued into the late nineteen seventies, but

409
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:28.480
with many movements of this time, they were targets of

410
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:32.359
the FBI's cointeil pro program, in which the FBI used

411
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:36.640
cover and often illegal tactics to disrupt and neutralized organizations

412
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:39.599
that they deemed threats to national security. And these, of

413
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:45.240
course included civil rights groups, leftist organizations, and bipoc activists. Yeah, like,

414
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.119
so many groups were repressed through this way, and the

415
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:52.559
right like they just dwindled down in activity because of

416
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:56.079
all the arrest and you know, interference from the FBI.

417
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:00.359
And yeah, that is part two. Wow wowow gonna anything

418
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:05.839
else there? No, okay, okay, just wow wow wow wow wow.

419
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.200
I mean we kind of already said our thoughts throughout.

420
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.799
It's truly fascinating. That is where the patient Bill of

421
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:14.079
Rights comes from, and we don't even learn it. I

422
00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:16.920
would have never known, never thought. Yeah, And it just

423
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.279
goes to show the thing that you were always repeating

424
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:21.480
that we wouldn't have our rights if you didn't fight

425
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:23.799
for them. We had to fight for our rights. Nobody

426
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:27.160
in power has ever given us our rights. So when

427
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:31.000
some dumb fuck from Middle America tell from anywhere. They

428
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:32.759
could be anywhere. Yeah, I don't know. I said that.

429
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.920
But tries to tell you we give your rights, because

430
00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:39.559
they will. They say this shit all the time. It's like, no, bitch,

431
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:43.680
we fought hard for our rights. Yeah, nobody gave us anything. No,

432
00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:45.880
because if it was up to them, we wouldn't have nothing.

433
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.279
We wouldn't have any of the rights that we have. Nothing.

434
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:52.160
What are they doing right now? They're dismantling Yeah, things

435
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:55.440
that people have worked so hard on. Yeah. Yeah, and

436
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:59.559
it's infuriating. Yeah, but yeah, to say the least to least.

437
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.759
So yeah, that was the history of the Young Lord's

438
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:08.799
Lincoln Defensive got medals and how her death led to

439
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:10.799
the Patient Bill of Rights. You can find all of

440
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:13.160
our sources in the show notes. But I did want

441
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.160
to point out there's two documentaries. One is one that

442
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:18.960
was done a while ago by the New York Times

443
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.319
has this. They put out some good stuff they do,

444
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:25.119
but in the past years, I mean they have been

445
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.119
a little there's a lot of issues with them. But

446
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:31.200
they have this on YouTube, this series of documentaries that

447
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:33.799
are very short, usually no more than thirty minutes. And

448
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:37.000
there is one about the Young Lord's takeover of the

449
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.839
Lincoln Hospital. I mentioned it in the first episode, how

450
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:46.519
we occupied a hospital and changed public healthcare. That's the

451
00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:51.799
twenty thirty minute video. But there's also a documentary called Takeover,

452
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.960
which is a little bit longer. It was made in

453
00:25:55.039 --> 00:26:00.799
partnership with Democracy Now, and those are both fascinating. There's

454
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:05.359
also a book called the History of the Young Lords.

455
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:08.319
I want to say, but those are all very fascinating.

456
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:11.079
I mean, the Young Lords, this is not even everything

457
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:13.599
they did. This is the tip of the iceberg. Yeah,

458
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:17.319
they were and I this will be again. I added

459
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:20.200
it to our topic list. But they had involvement in

460
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:24.359
the Attica Prison uprising, so they did so much. And

461
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:26.720
I just again, then we don't learn this kind of

462
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:28.960
stuff in school because they don't want us to know

463
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:31.480
that it's been done before, Like they don't want us

464
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:34.039
to know our power. Yeah, and it's like we say

465
00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:36.640
so many times, if you don't know your history, you

466
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:39.240
don't know your story. You don't It's like there's a

467
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:43.920
saying in Spanish, it's in the stadium in Chile historian

468
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.039
something like that. That's not the word for word, aliquain.

469
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:50.960
I'm as amano very close to that. It's the same thing.

470
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.039
When they talk about collective memory, it's usually I mean,

471
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.319
I've heard it in when it comes to Latin American,

472
00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:02.720
Central American Salvadorian Civil War. Did they forget their collective memory? Boy?

473
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:09.480
Was that on purpose? Because people who know history recognize patterns,

474
00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:13.920
and it's something that is even topical here now in

475
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.799
this day and age in the United States. And I

476
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:19.279
know that a lot of people are bringing Nazi Germany

477
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:23.880
into this conversation, but it's true because that's like the biggest,

478
00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:27.720
I guess, the main fascist government that we actually learned

479
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.200
about in the United States. But even then, we learned

480
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:32.720
about it so broadly and started to cut off your

481
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:34.079
trin at thought because I am going to go on

482
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.920
a little tangent or did you want to add anything before? No,

483
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:39.519
I don't think so, I've already forgotten. Okay, my bad.

484
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:41.359
Well it's not really a tangent. And just I started

485
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.240
listening to this podcast called in Bed with the Right

486
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.680
and I found them through a bit fruity another podcast

487
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:52.160
that I watched by Matt Bernstein. Wait is in Better

488
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.319
with the Writing is out on YouTube on new or

489
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:57.000
is that also on No? I listened I've been listening

490
00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:59.920
to that one on Spotify. Okay, And they just started

491
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:04.319
the series called Project nineteen thirty three where they're detailing

492
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:07.319
the first six what the first six weeks of the

493
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.000
Nazi regime look like? Wow? And because we learned about

494
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.480
it broadly, right, but there's so many things that happened

495
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:18.119
day to day. And they talk about like what the

496
00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:22.440
artists and the elites and the authors and the professors

497
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:25.519
that kind of were the first to see the red

498
00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:28.599
flags and write about them and leave the country, which

499
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:31.279
is something that's being talked about now as well. Yeah,

500
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.240
because the guy that wrote that book about tyranny or

501
00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:39.839
something left in the country. Yeah. So there And the

502
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:41.880
first episode they talk about I think like the first

503
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.559
week or so, and then the next episode in the

504
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.119
series they talk about the next like so they're grouping

505
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:49.319
it month by month wow or I don't know if

506
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:51.240
it's a month or like they're doing like two or

507
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:56.039
two weeks at a time. It's fascinating and scary. Okay,

508
00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:00.200
I will have to listen to that. Wow. Yeah, and

509
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.039
this is more very and I guess until the episode Territory.

510
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:06.200
But just really quick, did you watch the interview with

511
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:10.519
Trump or they asked him about upholding the Constitution because

512
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.279
he took an oath as president, as all presidents have

513
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:15.960
to do so, and he's like, I don't know, I

514
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:18.759
don't know if to do that, and fucking Christ, yeah,

515
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.160
y'all if that is not the biggest these are glaring sirens.

516
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:25.720
Now they're not even like red flags anymore. These are like, no, yeah,

517
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:30.599
alarms so alarmed. Yeah, yeah, that's scary. Like we see

518
00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:32.400
their actions in the day, but now they don't even

519
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:35.359
care about vocalizing and they haven't really because this whole time,

520
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:37.680
I feel like they're towing the line about what they

521
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:39.960
can get away with and what people will put up

522
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:41.960
a fight to and whatnot. And it's another thing that

523
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.240
brings me back to Marie Essan's book, and she's like,

524
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:47.720
you need to hold the line, hold the line, and

525
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:51.119
we're not doing that. Yeah, And it's all part of

526
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.319
their plan and system, because how can you when they've

527
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:56.200
made it so that you don't even have time to

528
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.960
go out in protest, when they disbanded communities their spaces

529
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.319
and you don't have spaces, you don't have a place

530
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:05.680
to talk about these things to make a plan, right, right,

531
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:10.480
It's all it's all part of the plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

532
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:14.920
it's by design. Yeah, really quick. Also, I'm so sorry.

533
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:17.559
I'm just talking a lot today. I was going on

534
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.279
and on for his Peaky tells. Okay, but this is

535
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:22.720
the last thing I'm gonna say. Okay, ever, just kidding.

536
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.599
I came across a TikTok and I send it to you,

537
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:28.519
but you haven't opened it because you've been busy. I

538
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:32.319
haven't busy. It's fine, it's fine. I reposted it too,

539
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:35.920
because I where's my reposts? Okay. So it was this

540
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:42.039
video of this girl that talks about an essay by

541
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.799
Tony Morrison. And so in the video she's just talking

542
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:50.000
about it, but it's an essay called fascism, and I

543
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:51.920
forgot the other part of it, but I sent you

544
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:53.960
the actual because then she posts the actual essay it

545
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:58.240
comes from Tony Morrison's book called The Source of Self Regard. Oh,

546
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.119
and then the actual essays called Racism and Fascism, And

547
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:05.440
she has a list here that she writes about basically

548
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:08.559
what fascists looks what fascism looks like. And I'm not

549
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:10.079
going to read at all, but it's like some of

550
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:13.400
these things, you know, just reading this will all recognize them.

551
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:17.440
Like one of the things palisade all art forms monitor, discredit,

552
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:21.759
or expel those that challenge or destabilize processes of demonization

553
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:26.279
and deification. So like another one enlists and create sources

554
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:29.480
and distributions of information who are willing to reinforce the

555
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.599
demonizing process because it's profitable, because it grants power, and

556
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:35.799
because it works. And what are they doing now? They're

557
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:39.440
trying to kick out actual journalists that will question Carolyn

558
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:44.359
spelled with three K's Levitts press conferences. They're kicking those

559
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:47.079
journalists out, and they're trying to only bring up people

560
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:50.279
that will not question anything and will just you know,

561
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:54.119
drink the kool aid, as they say, pathologize the enemy,

562
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:58.119
and scholarly and popular mediums recycle, for example, scientific racism

563
00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:01.359
and the myths of racial superiority in order to naturalize

564
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.599
the pathology. What is RFK Junior doing now with his

565
00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:10.160
stupid bullshit which is fababase. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, there's

566
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:12.240
just it's a then this it goes on. But I

567
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.279
definitely want to check out this book. And I don't know,

568
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:17.839
I just I can't get fascism out of my mind,

569
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.279
and neither should you or anyone, right, because we are

570
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:25.880
basically in it. I mean they're outright. Trump outright said

571
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.480
that he does not have to uphold or that he

572
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:30.960
doesn't know, he's not sure if he's going to uphold

573
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.200
the Constitution even though he's wore nos. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

574
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:36.519
he doesn't know. I'm like, what kind of shit is that?

575
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.160
If that doesn't scare you, it should, And I'm like,

576
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:42.079
every I know what this is like, nothing new to

577
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:45.079
our listeners, but if you have anyone who is a

578
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.200
political in your life or who's busy and feels like

579
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.799
they don't have the time to care about these things,

580
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:54.000
this is gonna This affects everyday life, our jobs. If

581
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.599
you're in a union. This is the most anti union

582
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:00.759
administration ever. Yeah yeah, I mean they want to bring

583
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:03.920
back company talents right, Like that's not a good thing,

584
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:08.079
the antithesis of union workers rights. Yeah, and human rights

585
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:11.160
everything everything. Okay, but yeah, I'll go on or not

586
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:13.279
if I don't stop now, So true, true, you will?

587
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:16.920
So yeah, that was this episode so relevant to learn

588
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.519
about these histories of ours because if no, no, I'm not,

589
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:24.599
people who know history can recognize these patterns. Yes, that

590
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:26.039
was a whole point. That was the whole point of that,

591
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:29.240
And just a reminder that over on Patreon we yap

592
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:31.319
more about this kind of stuff. Here at the end

593
00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:33.319
that Carmen was going on and on about and she

594
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:35.799
had to stop physically or she would keep going. Now

595
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:38.000
I'm chugging water because they talk so much's dugging water

596
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:41.920
to stop? No, I'm just kidding. We also are hoping

597
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:45.920
to do our book club discussion on defectors at the

598
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:51.599
end of no, like after this weekend, so next weekend. Yeah, yeah,

599
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.240
at the time this comes out next weekend, and obviously

600
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.960
we'll post it on Patreon, we'll post it on Instagram

601
00:33:56.519 --> 00:33:58.640
where we're going to be doing another discussion and we're

602
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.480
very excited for it. So even if it's just me

603
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.119
and Carmen, we're gonna yap about it anyway. And if

604
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:05.920
no one sholse up, will just post the episode so

605
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:08.960
for free on Patreon. So right, yeah, yeah, all right.

606
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.599
We hope that this was one less Ustordia Unknown for you.

607
00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:18.320
Bye bye. Astoria as Unknown is produced by Carmen and Christina,

608
00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:21.719
researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can

609
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:24.480
find sources for every episode at Astoria unknown dot com

610
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.320
and in our show notes. Creating the podcast has a

611
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:28.599
lot of work, so if you want to help us

612
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.480
out financially, you can do so by supporting us on

613
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:34.679
Patreon at patreon dot com. Slash you studied as an

614
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:35.199
own podcast