March 26, 2026
Berta Caceres Part One
Berta Cáceres was a Lenca indigenous leader, an environmental activist, and a human rights defender. But she was also so much more than that: a beauty pageant queen, a revolutionary (she joined the FMLN during the Salvadoran Civil War), and a mother. In part one, Cristina talks about Berta Cáceres' family, early life, her time with the FMLN, and her work leading up to the cofounding of COPINH in 1993.
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Sources
Who Killed Berta Caceres? Dams, Death Squads, and an Indigenous Defender’s Battle for the Planet by Nina Lakhani
https://archive.ph/BsiZB#selection-3399.94-3399.248
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berta_C%C3%A1ceres
https://english.elpais.com/international/2026-03-02/berta-caceres-and-the-resistance-that-was-born-under-an-oak-tree.html
https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/03/04/planeta_futuro/1457113234_162700.html
https://www.gaipe.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Represa-de-Violencia-ES-FINAL-.pdf
https://www.internationalrivers.org/news/remembering-river-defender-berta-caceres/
https://www.frontlinedefenders.org/en/case/honduras-berta-caceres-killed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Honduras_(1932%E2%80%931982)
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WEBVTT
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Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is
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Estodia's Unknown, the podcast where we talk about Latin American history.
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Sometimes it's torible and just so typy topics like racism, corruption,
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and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance,
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power and community and today it's kind of a little
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bit of everything. Right. This is going to be part
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one of a series. Okay, I love a series. Well
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I'm digging two to three episodes total, so okay, it
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depends where we get in part two anyway. Yes, so yeah,
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let's just jump right into today's topic. Berta Casset is
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okay finally, Yeah, this has been another one that we've
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called or I've called our What is the term people
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use white whale, big whale? I think it's white. Well
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the magnus magnum opus, I've heard that too. Why was
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I gonna say opus? Day? Dude? Oh? Another topic? And anyway, yes, so,
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I'm sure a lot of people know who she is,
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but maybe a lot of people don't. So. Berta Casseres
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was an indigenous leader and environmental activist, and ten years
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ago she was gunned down in her own home and
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the rot to justice was a rocky one and to
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this day there are still unanswered questions. Damn. But before
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we can get to the day she was killed, we
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have to talk about her early life. Berta Isabelle Casseres
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Flores was born March fourth, nineteen seventy one. And I
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didn't say the day but she died. I want to
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say March third, twenty sixteen, so like I know it
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was in March, and it was the day before day.
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I remember seeing it was the other day before, the
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day after, So just how I don't know. Yeah, horrible anyway, Sorry,
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I'm already like wavering from my notes. Berta Isabel Casseres
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Florius was born March fourth, nineteen seventy one in La Esperanza, Hodurras.
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She was the youngest of twelve siblings. And you could
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say that she was born to be revolutionary. Okay, because
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I know this episode is about her. But before we
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can even like begin to talk about her and to
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understand why she was the way that she was, we
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had to talk about her family. Revolution was in her blood.
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Her mom, Alustra Berta Flores Lopez, is described as the
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most important role model in Bertha's life, like by her
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Dounia Austra was a nurse, midwife, activist, and politician. Oh
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she was everything, Yes, she like Berta was born and
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raised in La Speranza, which is one hundred and twenty
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miles west of the Usigalpa, the capital of Houras. Laesperanza
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and the town of Intibuka are split by a single street,
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but each one has their own municipal government. They are
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twin cities. Oh, but Intibuka is older and Lenca and
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the Lenca are an indigenous group in Hoduras parts of
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Ben sal Vador. And I want to say mala to
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I think so the Lenca people of Intibuka could not
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enter the Mestizo schools or churches of La Speranza, and
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Alstra could clearly see as a child the difference between
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the two and though she didn't have like the words yet,
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it was an apartheid like situation. Oh, because yeah, they
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couldn't enter the schools and stuff. Alstra had to travel
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on horse to visit her father, Berta's grandfather in Ennsalvador
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because he had been exiled from Manduras during the dictatorship
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of Tiburzio Crias Andino. Oh wow, mm hmm. And like
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any other Latin American dictatorships of the time. Yes, there
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was repression and human rights violations and a lot of
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caterine to us. I want to say this, in this case,
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it was US, British and Canadian company's interests, you know,
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selling the land for a capitalism prophet. And so she
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had to ride two days on horse with her mom
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to reach her dad. Alstra Flories became a widow at
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age fifteen after a marriage of three years to a
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much older man. Oh my god, she became a widow
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at age fifteen. Fifteen? Yeah, when did she get married?
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I don't know? Wow? Oh oh sorry, sorry, a marriage
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of three years. I just said at age fifteen, after
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a marriage of three years. And I was like, I
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couldn't find that information. Oh, I thought you said after
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Actually I don't know what then I think I didn't
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I missed it. Also, yes, I get it, okay. But
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then then she got married, which was twelve to an
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older man. That's so disgusting. Yeah, so Berta Berta and
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her two siblings older than her, the two like that
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are right? Oh my god, he say this to you
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already said the two older siblings. No, she had she
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was the youngest of twelve siblings, so her and the
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other two the last three siblings. Yeah, I have a
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different father than the rest of them. Oh okay, so
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the other ones are from the old disgusting man I
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think so, yeah, okay, from what I can tell. But
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after she became a widow at age fifteen, and there
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might be two more. I'm not sure there might be anyway,
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after she became a widow, she was trained as a
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nurse and then a midwife, and back then she was
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usually the only health professional in town, and people would
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walk miles to her house and then wait at the
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bench that was there to be seen by her, and
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they would pay Austra with firewood mais or even like
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a hen barter type, yes, and she would say like
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the there was no money, but we were never like hungry.
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There was like even when she was interviewed. I want
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to say. The book that is my main source, Who
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Killed Berta Cassides came out in twenty twenty, and so
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probably some time after twenty sixteen is when Nina Lacani,
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the author, talked to Alstra. But when she in her book,
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she's right that Austra kept her leather medical bag with
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her as she was interviewing her. And she carried this
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back then and she still probably carries it, and she
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was already like eighty something. Oh wow. Still treating people,
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damn yeah, and helping the marginalize and standing against oppression
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is something that Austra's parents instilled in her, and her
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family was labeled as Communists for caring about people. Yes,
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during the Andino dictatorship, and again her father had been exiled.
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This fighting spirit was also instilled in Austra's own kids.
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But again, before talking about Berta, we had to also
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talk about her brother, her older brother. Oops. I thought
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I was moving on to that, but no, one more
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thing about Alstra okay. Austra led a political movement to
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secure the right for women to run for office in Honduras.
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About this, she said, it wasn't easy to break the
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glass ceiling and end the extreme policy that only men
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could run for office. I ran against nine men the
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first time, and it was hard. With the help of
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other women, we organized and asked other women, why keep
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voting for men if they're going to deny us our rights?
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That part m hm, oh. This might have been the
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nineteen seventies because Austra or Nostra Berta was already born.
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She was born in seventy one. Oh. During this campaign,
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Berta Cassades and her two older siblings, like the closest
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at age to her, were always with Austra, and they
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witnessed her fight for these rights. And then they saw
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when she won the race to become mayor of La Speranza. Wow,
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not just once, but three times damn. And after her
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third mayoral term was up, she ran for Congress and won. Wow.
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Her first goal in Congress was to ensure that Ondudas
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would ratify Convention one sixty nine of the International Labor
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Organization to provide rights and ricka ignition to the country's
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indigenous people, and it passed in nineteen ninety five. Wow. Yes.
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By the time that Austra was interviewed in twenty eighteen,
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she was eighty five and had delivered at least six
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thousand babies damn, many who were named after Bertha. She
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said in that interview that there are so many Bertha's
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in the world now. And oh, I almost forgot to say,
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but she was also the governor of Indibuga at some point,
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so mayor governor, congressperson midwife. What could she not do? Yeah, okay,
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And so that being their mom, it's no surprise that
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Alberta's older brother, Carlos Alberto would also become one of
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Bertha's biggest role models and inactivit. By the mid nineteen seventies,
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Ondudas was once again in political turmoil. There was a
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coup in nineteen sixty three, and then Ondudas went under
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military rule until nineteen sixty eight. Then there was war
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with then Salvador in nineteen sixty nine, but then when
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that war was over, there was still more conflict and
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then another military rule until nineteen seventy eight, and then
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one more to get Onduda's from military rule to civilian rule.
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That was the last one, and you can guess that
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with like back to back to back military rule, there
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was a lot of repression and again a lot of
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human rights violations, and so that's the context in which
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Carlos Alberto grew into his activism. In the mid nineteen seventies,
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student rebellions were on the rise, and at the time,
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Carlo Alberto was a student at the Esperanza teacher training
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college called Escuola Normal Occidente. There he was elected student leader,
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and he went on to lead a hunger strike that
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was calling for the austine of an abusive school director.
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And when they were doing this hunger strike slash protests,
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soldiers were deployed to quell the student activists and in
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this Carlos was shot in the shoulder. Oh wow. And
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this didn't stop him. It did the opposite. It like
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fueled him to keep going, go even harder. Yeah. He
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then led nationwide strikes to force out more ineffective, bad
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and abusive head teachers. Then he organized meetings at the
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family home to offer support to the leftist Geia groups
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in Salvador and Nicaragua, both in our own civil wars.
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I love that. Mm hmm. This made well not in
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the fighting that would lead to the civil war, but
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like he was basically helping organize, yes, support them. Yeah,
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And this made the family targets of the d N
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I the Investiga, which was like, uh, I've heard of them,
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Oh you have? Yes, the intelligence group that do I know?
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We talked about like a similar intelligence group in Chile
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we did that had very similar initials Dina, Yes, M
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that's what it was. Wait wait if that's what I'm thinking,
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I heard of but they're very similar and they function
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the same do the same thing. Yeah, and so yeah,
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this made of the family targets and the dn I
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began to pay their neighbors to become informants and spy
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on them, and so they were being spied on twenty
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over seven. This I don't know, I just did such
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fascist behavior everywhere, like the same playbook over and over again.
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We also had to remember that, like there's a lot
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of stuff I'm leaving out, but like the health and inequity,
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the income gaps, they were like huge, just like they
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were in sandbl in the time period. So people were
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like hungry and they needed money, and they were using
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this against the people to make them become sniches basically. Yeah.
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And while some people can themselves be like no, I'm
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not doing this, other people can't and that happens. But
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some people do this for free. So yeah, calling calling
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the hotlines on their neighbors and stuff. Mm hmm that
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I cannot excuse. Yeah, this I understand a little more.
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It was a very poor area. However, if they weren't
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poor and they were taking that money, that's when I'm like, bitch,
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all right, So the family would hear soldier's boots walking
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down the roof at random hours of the day at night.
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Oh my god. And of course this wasn't something Carlos
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Alberto was doing alone. Alstra also helping treat wounded FML
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and members, and the family was also offering them food
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and a place to rest and also medicine. They had
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all those things available to them. But yeah, it just
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reminds me when we talked about Argentina and all the
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leftist students and organizers that were disappeared. A lot of
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them were like some of them were doctors helping people
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that were hurt, but they were targeted because they were
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helping in some way exactly. And other student leaders were
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disappeared during this time close friends to Carlos Alberto, and
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at this point their house became like a small headquarters
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for both Garilla members in Enzerelo and Nicara Wa Wow.
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Alstra also helped hide boys who were avoiding being taken
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by the Salvadoran army and forced to fight. They would
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go there to hide, because yeah, this a thing which
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we've talked about in our many episodes about uh yeah.
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When Carlos Alberto graduated as a teacher, he joined the
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Communist Party and then moved to north Onras, where he
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worked with Campecino banana cooperatives fighting for land registribution. He
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then became involved with Los Sincho Neros the Popular Liberation
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Movement is their official name, an armed student guerilla group.
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In later Carlos moved to Russia with the scholarship to
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study history in political science. After that, he went to
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Nicaragua to fight with the Sandinistas against the US armed
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and funded contras. I never say that in Spanish, but
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contrast anyway, this is where the Iran contra affair that
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everyone has heard this term, but I think for the
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longest time nobody understood what it meant, at least like
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I didn't for years. But yeah, the US was selling
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funds to Iran. Funds. They were selling funds. They were
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selling arms weapons, yeah, to Iran from funds. They were
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selling weapons to Iran to fund the contrasts, right, right, Okay, yes, okay,
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we got there, We got there. Sorry. I was like
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trying to guess what you're gonna say because you were
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taking so long. Oh my bad. And this is especially
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audacious because then the US would go on to deploy
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troops in the Middle East, and when they were funding
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these same people right right, right, all to fund the
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Contrasts who were part of the right wing government who
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