Jan. 23, 2025

A Brief History of the Panama Canal Zone (Part Two)

A Brief History of the Panama Canal Zone (Part Two)

The Panama Canal is now controlled by Panama, but before that, France and then the United Stated coveted and gained control of the zone, to develop the canal. Many lives were lost during the development of the canal, and many were displaced for the...

Spotify podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
Audible podcast player badge
PlayerFM podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player iconApple Podcasts podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconAudible podcast player iconPlayerFM podcast player iconPodcast Addict podcast player iconPocketCasts podcast player icon

The Panama Canal is now controlled by Panama, but before that, France and then the United Stated coveted and gained control of the zone, to develop the canal. Many lives were lost during the development of the canal, and many were displaced for the creation of the canal. The role of Panama in its own development is often forgotten or minimized.

In part two, Carmen tells Cristina about how the US justified their need for control of the canal and how they eventually came to control it.

If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/

Want ad free episodes? And the ocassioal bonus episode? Support Historias Unknown on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/HistoriasUnknownPodcast

Follow on social media:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/historiasunknown/

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@historiasunknown

Music Credit: Hustlin (Instrumental) by Neffex

Sources:

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1977-1980/panama-canal
Erased: The Untold Story of the Panama Canal by Marixa Lasso
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEmtX9vOroL/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng%3D%3D
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/tr-panama/
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/national-international/a-history-of-the-panama-canal-and-why-the-us-cant-just-take-it-back/3707946/
https://therealnews.com/the-panama-canal-under-the-shadow-episode-12 ​​https://read.dukeupress.edu/hahr/article/46/1/28/158412/Philippe-Bunau-Varilla-New-Light-on-the-Panama

Tiktok creator talking about mining in El Salvador:
https://www.tiktok.com/@colocha_sv503/video/7458308116132777221?_r=1&_t=ZT-8tEng0cxa0M

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:16.199
Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and we're in Hell.

2
00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:18.839
But also this is the Stordia's Unknown, a podcast where

3
00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:21.719
we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes it's horrible and

4
00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.559
deals with heavy topics like this is some corruption and genocide.

5
00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:27.760
But more than that, it's also by resistance, power and community,

6
00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:30.879
things that we're gonna need. Also, it's our present, not

7
00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:36.200
also the past. That's true. Yeah, it never ended. No,

8
00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:39.600
it's our present, past in our future well hopefully not future,

9
00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:43.479
but yeah, I mean it is what it is. We

10
00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:45.719
are what we are. Here we are, they are what

11
00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:51.560
they are, and here we are. Yes, okay, doctor Seuss,

12
00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:58.600
I know what's wrong with me? Oh yeah, it's January

13
00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:04.079
twentieth as we're recording, so yeah, yeah, all right. Today

14
00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:08.599
we're continuing our discussion of the Panama Canal. Do you

15
00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:11.760
want to say anything before when I start? Nothing related

16
00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:15.079
to the Panama Canal zone, just womb lands the song

17
00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:18.280
if you know, you know it's stuck in my head,

18
00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:21.319
deep in my womb land. Please stop before it gets

19
00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:25.519
stuck in my head. I'm not saying that out loud anymore.

20
00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:29.879
It's gonna stay in here, thank you. Okay, So last

21
00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:33.680
episode we talked about how coated a canal in Central

22
00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:38.120
America was the French effort to build a canal, and

23
00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:42.040
how the Panama Canal came to be under US control, Yeah,

24
00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:44.760
because the US was feeding for it right, right, and

25
00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.959
they hadn't feaning for it for a long time, and

26
00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:50.719
how it came under control of the US through the

27
00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:54.120
nineteen o three And I realized I was saying, I

28
00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:57.920
like Spanish, but it's hey, it's an English name, so

29
00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.280
for the US, Okay, that's what I'm gonna say. Not

30
00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:03.560
I was like, I blah blah blah whatever. So under

31
00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:06.359
the the Treaty nineteen from nineteen oh three, the hey

32
00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:10.599
bo now Varia treaty, that makes more sense. Yeah. And

33
00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:13.560
last episode I mentioned that I'm just laughing that you

34
00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:18.520
were saying time. Yeah, I feel dumb, but we love

35
00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:27.800
you know hi. Yeah, last episode I mentioned that Panamanian

36
00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:31.840
elites were more than happy to accommodate the US elites

37
00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:35.639
and basically sold out Panama. But I didn't get into specifics,

38
00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:38.240
and I still won't get into specifics too much for

39
00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:40.039
the take of time. But I felt like it was

40
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:42.120
important to kind of like explain a little bit more

41
00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:44.759
because I was confused with the I looked into it

42
00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:47.400
a little bit more. And anyway, the name of the

43
00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:52.719
treaty comes from John Hay and Philippe bow Varia, who

44
00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:56.759
signed the treaty. John Hay was the US Secretary of

45
00:02:56.919 --> 00:03:02.400
State and Philippe bo Now was acting as a representative

46
00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:04.879
for Panama. Even though he was not from Panama. He

47
00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:06.879
was French, and he actually had not set foot in

48
00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:10.479
Panama since eighteen eighty seven. Geez. And there's a longer

49
00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:14.199
story to that that you can read about on one

50
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:16.960
of the links. Let me say which link in case

51
00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:20.000
anyone wants to look more into that. That one is

52
00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:23.360
the one that says read dot Duke, press dot edu

53
00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:26.479
and then blah blah blah blah. But okay, you'll see

54
00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:30.840
which one it is. Yeah, okay. So bo Now would

55
00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:34.280
also become Panama's first minister, even though he hadn't said, well,

56
00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:38.039
did he go back to Panama? At least I think

57
00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.280
he did. I didn't look more into that. He probably did.

58
00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:43.360
I'm assuming, okay, like I would hope, so if you

59
00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:47.479
became the minister. Yeah. Bo Now was a French engineer

60
00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:50.560
and investor, and he was one of the major bankrollers

61
00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:54.879
behind the Pandamanian separatist movement. He was also an investor

62
00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:57.240
in the French company that had been trying to build

63
00:03:57.240 --> 00:03:59.879
a canal in Panama. So he had a lot of

64
00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:05.080
steak in the US purchasing the rights to the canal

65
00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:09.800
from the company that he had investments in, and so

66
00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:11.719
he made a lot of money when that did happen.

67
00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.520
It's not what it always comes down to. I thought

68
00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:16.360
I added a little bit more here, but I didn't.

69
00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:18.800
But just off the top of my head, Hey, the

70
00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:24.279
US representative, whatever the hell he was, he had stake

71
00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:29.279
in the railroad company, so they all had money in this. Yeah.

72
00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:33.079
So that's as much as I'm getting into that. Okay,

73
00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:37.439
Well more context always hopes. Anyway, issues between Banama and

74
00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:40.879
the US arose pretty much immediately over the Port of

75
00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:44.839
Panama and which country would control it. Last episode we

76
00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.079
talked about the treaty, and the treaty said that Bantama

77
00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:52.759
had given in perpetuity and this means forever, by the way,

78
00:04:52.759 --> 00:04:55.160
because I didn't explain that last episode either, just in

79
00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:59.279
case anyone didn't know. So, Bantama had given in perpetuity

80
00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:02.199
to the US a five mile zone on either side

81
00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:04.839
of the canal. But there was one exception to that,

82
00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:09.160
and that was the cities of Panama and Cologne and

83
00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:12.839
their ports. They were not included. Those were supposed to

84
00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:16.120
be always for Panama. Yeah, they were excluded from the treaty.

85
00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:18.480
But not even two months after the treaty, the US

86
00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:21.560
started arguing about the language of the treaty, which specifically

87
00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:25.160
said the ports adjacent to the city, because they wanted

88
00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:29.000
more control over everything, right of course. See, it's like

89
00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:31.879
the if you give a mouse to cookie, Yeah, but

90
00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.120
the US is not a mouse, the like this fucking

91
00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:37.680
evil I don't know monster, and they're just like more more, yeah,

92
00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:39.680
or the other saying about I gave you my hand

93
00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:41.279
and you took my arm or whatever you know, and

94
00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:43.439
then you like fucking bit my entire arm or something

95
00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:46.399
and you tore my arm off. Yeah, and then you

96
00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:51.480
just kept going and yeah, devoured catibalism. That's what we're

97
00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:55.040
talk about here, exactly how the saying goes, Yes, word

98
00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:59.680
for word. There's a lot more to be said about

99
00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:03.680
all of that, which the book erased does get into.

100
00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.560
But I guess to me, the most important thing to

101
00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:12.160
know about this was how Panamanians viewed themselves and their

102
00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:16.160
government versus how the US viewed Panama. At this point,

103
00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:22.199
Panemanians viewed their government as a progressive republic until very recently.

104
00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:24.600
At that point, they had been a part of Columbia,

105
00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:29.639
who had abolished slavery ten years before the US and

106
00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:33.839
enacted loss granting freedom of press, separation of church and state,

107
00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:38.680
and universal manhood suffrage meaning black people, black men could vote.

108
00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:42.160
I don't know about people. I just know about black men. Actually, okay,

109
00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.480
I'm not sure if women were included and included yeah,

110
00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.800
probably not, no, because what year was this? In? Nineteen

111
00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:52.040
oh three? Okay, and I think for this well ten

112
00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:56.079
years before that would be eighteen okay, ninety three. I

113
00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:58.439
think around this time is when all the suffrage movement

114
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:00.519
from women started, but I don't think it happened yet.

115
00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:03.519
And then the book she talks only about black men,

116
00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:07.600
so I'm assuming women couldn't vote at this point. Yeah. Yeah.

117
00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:12.800
Throughout this time, while Panama was under Columbia, they were

118
00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:14.800
acting as their own state, so they still have their

119
00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:18.800
own governments and things like that, right, Okay, And anyway,

120
00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:22.279
compared to the US, I mean, they had abolish slavery,

121
00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:26.720
like they were miles ahead and write, you know, progressive

122
00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:30.240
views and movements. Yes, right, but the US and the

123
00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:33.600
West would never see Panama in this way, of course not. Yeah,

124
00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:37.920
so Teddy Roosevelt saw black people from the Caribbean as backward,

125
00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:42.160
inferior beings who needed an American guiding hand, as was

126
00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:44.600
a typical view back then. I was gonna say he

127
00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:47.720
also didn't view black people in the US very well either,

128
00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:53.800
despite right inviting who did he invite through some well, no,

129
00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.120
I think it was. No, I could be wrong. I

130
00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:02.079
don't remember. I'm not sure. The black like leader leader

131
00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:05.800
in some like he invited him to the White House,

132
00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:08.079
and people praise him for that, but it's like you

133
00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:11.120
still know he was like racist and eugenesis, right like

134
00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:17.160
in other words of you rooted in paternalism and super superior,

135
00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:22.439
superior reality. Yeah, I said it, you didn't, You didn't.

136
00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:29.240
Such was this paternalistic view that Americans wrote bandamask Constitution

137
00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:35.480
in advance of Bandomas independence and Bunao Vadiya's wife sued

138
00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:40.120
Banama's first flag. She made the flag Banama. Oh wow.

139
00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:42.240
So they they were just like, we're just gonna do

140
00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:44.080
all this for you because you're too stupid to do

141
00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:49.039
it yourselves. Yeah, not surprised, not at all. Banama viewed

142
00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:52.679
themselves as smaller and less powerful, but equal to the

143
00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:58.159
United States. Oh no, what a mistake, Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah.

144
00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.240
Ultimately they fucked around and found out that's selling out

145
00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:03.759
to the US is not the wind that they thought

146
00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.679
it would be, and it never is it never will be. Yeah.

147
00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:11.000
So we has more contexts here, and we're going to

148
00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:13.080
talk about the prevalent view that the West had of

149
00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:14.919
the tropics, which I don't think will be surprising to

150
00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:17.679
anybody because it's like stuff we've touched on already, like

151
00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:20.240
when we talked about eugenics, when we talked about the

152
00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:24.200
bath rights. Basically, I don't know everything, yeah, because everything

153
00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:28.320
is connected, yes, and we mentioned that in another episode,

154
00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:32.399
and yes that it's on the Bengo card that off. Yeah.

155
00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:36.919
But yeah, even though that we've talked about these things already,

156
00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.000
I think it helps to build an understanding of how

157
00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:42.879
the US approached the development of the Pama Canal in Panama.

158
00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:46.039
So a hot topic in the US at the time

159
00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:51.399
was you guessed it eugenics? Whoa? Whoa? Who would have thunk?

160
00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:56.399
No way? Popular books like The Control of the Tropics

161
00:09:56.519 --> 00:10:01.360
by Benjamin Kidd and an Introduction to America Expansion Policy

162
00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:05.200
by James Morton Callahan pushed the belief that white people

163
00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:07.919
from the US and Europe were superior to people of

164
00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:11.320
color or to quote from the Control of the Top Tropics.

165
00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:16.399
It popularized the idea of quote the absolute ascendancy in

166
00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:19.000
the world today of white people from the US and

167
00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:23.919
Western Europe over the colored racist and quote, I'm rolling

168
00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:26.559
my eyes so hard right now. And it's also important

169
00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:30.120
to note that this book was published in eighteen ninety

170
00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:33.320
eight when the US was taking over the Spanish colonies

171
00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:37.320
of Puerto Rico, Cuba, and the Philippines, and the US

172
00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:41.440
justified political control of these colonies and later Panama through

173
00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:44.840
the belief that they were bringing civilization and democracy to

174
00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:47.799
these regions, which is part from the truth. And it's

175
00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:51.000
still a justification that the US uses around the world today. Yeah.

176
00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:54.480
I mean, honestly, anytime you hear like we're bringing democracy, no,

177
00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:57.840
they're just making terror. That's a red flag. Yeah, it

178
00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:01.200
should be a red flag. Yeah, some people still like

179
00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:04.639
fall for it. Some people believe that the military gives

180
00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:08.960
us our freedoms. How a man to get freedom from

181
00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:12.799
from a military base in across the world. Like, no,

182
00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:18.039
you think the military base in the Philippines is gonna

183
00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:24.799
give us freedom? Okay, dumb. In the American Expansion Policy Book,

184
00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:28.399
James argued that people in the Tropics were unable to

185
00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:33.960
live under democratic institutions, stating the trend of modern history

186
00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:38.519
seems to be toward colonization and protectorates. And this is

187
00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.000
a state that is controlled and protected by another. In

188
00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:44.559
other words, equality for less civilized peoples, and that it

189
00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:47.360
will be futile for any first class power to fold

190
00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:51.120
its hands and stand aloof from regions which, although they

191
00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:54.600
cannot perhaps be colonized by whites, must be governed by

192
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.639
a base in the temperate zones by the US and

193
00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:00.720
other nations whose duty is to undertain work in the

194
00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:05.759
interest of all as a trust for civilization. All that

195
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:09.519
to basically say, in his view, these regions need the

196
00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:13.639
US to become civilized. Yeah, but really what the US

197
00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:18.200
needed was their resources, yes, yeah, and to steal them

198
00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:24.799
all and make any off of it. Right. So, while

199
00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:27.679
Panama had counted on keeping control of their ports and

200
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:32.120
sharing control of the zone, the US believed that only

201
00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:34.559
they were civilized enough to control the ports and the

202
00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:39.039
canal only they were smart enough. Yeah, it did not

203
00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:41.240
matter to the US at all that the Port of

204
00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:44.679
Panama had a four hundred year history as an international port.

205
00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:48.120
It's also important to note that Panama had reason to

206
00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.639
expect the US to keep its word about the treaty

207
00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.240
because they already had experience in working with foreign powers,

208
00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:59.200
since the canal was the third largest infrastructural project being

209
00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:03.960
undertaken by foreign power in Panama, unfortunately known as debiant

210
00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:10.639
right right. So first US capital built the Banama Railroad

211
00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.000
in the eighteen fifties, then the French company started the

212
00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:17.639
construction of the Banama Canal in the eighteen eighties, and

213
00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:21.399
throughout all of that, Colombia, which Panama was a part of,

214
00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:25.679
then kept political jurisdiction over the towns and territory. So

215
00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:28.879
Panama had no reason to think it would be different

216
00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.799
this time. But the US government isn't like other girls.

217
00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:35.080
It's worse. Yeah. And then on top of that, the

218
00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.360
president in charge of the US government at this point

219
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:40.600
in time was Teddy Roosevelt, who truly truly believed that

220
00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.480
the US was better than everyone and Americas were better

221
00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:47.399
than everyone, and that he needed to what you've said it,

222
00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:49.759
You've said her already. They needed to be in control,

223
00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:53.279
and they needed to help everyone right become more civilized

224
00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.840
and all that. And so I mean, just look at

225
00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.159
and again, I'm going to do a separate episode on

226
00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:02.200
him and the country surrounding him. But the US National

227
00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:05.039
Park System being what it is today, none of that

228
00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:08.840
happened if it wasn't for him believing that white people

229
00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:12.679
were better. So yeah, I read the transcript, and I

230
00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.600
still want to listen to an episode. But I read

231
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:21.720
the transcript from the Panama Canal episode from the podcast

232
00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:25.200
Under the Shadow, and they actually interview Marik sa Lasso,

233
00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:27.440
who is the author of the book that I read.

234
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:30.279
Oh cool, in this episode. But in their episode they

235
00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:37.559
get more into Roosevelt's beliefs and they talk about a

236
00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:40.919
speech which I think is the quote I said from

237
00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:43.639
Roosevelt last episode. I think it comes from that speech

238
00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.639
that they talk about in their episode. And I guess

239
00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.759
this speech has a name because it like birthed a concept.

240
00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:53.399
Let me scroll down to find it. What was it?

241
00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:56.399
The good neighbor policy. It's it's like all of those

242
00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:03.399
things are basically the same but the Roosevelt corollary, Oh, yes,

243
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:11.600
this is the corollary to the Monroe doctrine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes,

244
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.519
So all of these things are tied together. But it's

245
00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:18.759
a speech that he gave that basically served as justification

246
00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:23.720
to what was done in Panama, and I don't know,

247
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.320
I guess in other places later on. I would hope

248
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:28.519
people remember what the Monroe doctrine is. But should we

249
00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.440
just give a quick overview? Yeah, I guess we could,

250
00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:35.639
But I guess people look at the Roosevelt corollary as

251
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.399
the original Monroe drocks in. I don't know what came first.

252
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.879
Did the Monroe doctrine actually come first? Yeah? So the

253
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:47.879
Monroe Doctrine was James Monroe, President James Monrose addressed to

254
00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:51.759
Congress in eighteen twenty three, and it established the US

255
00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:56.039
stance on European involvement in the Western hemisphere, basically saying

256
00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:00.559
like that it was a threat for all these places

257
00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:04.320
to be under European control, that they should they would

258
00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:09.360
be better off under like US or American control. Yeah,

259
00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:13.279
what I gathered from it, but let me just find

260
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:19.879
it more smarter. There we go. The Monroe Doctor's message

261
00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:22.960
was designed to keep European powers out of the Western hemisphere.

262
00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:28.159
And then Roosevelt's corollary, Yeah, so their European powers, according

263
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.440
to Monroe, were obligated to respect the Western hemisphere hemisphere

264
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:34.360
as the United States' sphere of interest, meaning they shouldn't

265
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:37.000
be in the global South, that's on this side of

266
00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.919
the world. So South America, Central America. Okay, So and

267
00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:43.240
things like that. The Mono doctrine was invoked in eighteen

268
00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.840
sixty five for the US government exerted military pressure and

269
00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:49.240
support of President. So it's done good and bad, right,

270
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:54.720
But so to support Benitojuarees when Emperor Maximilian took over,

271
00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:56.519
I don't know who never remembers us talking about that,

272
00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:01.279
the whole thing called Mio thing. But then, okay, so

273
00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:06.319
the Roosevelt corollary, it was Roosevelt proclaiming the right of

274
00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.640
the United States to exercise international police power and to

275
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:18.119
and so it's like extending the Monroe doctrine to give

276
00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:23.720
the US permission to meddle. Yeah. Basically in a speech, right,

277
00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.880
he says, certain circumstances may force the United States to

278
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:33.640
the exercise of basically playing international police to quote protect

279
00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:39.920
the world. Right, m I guess that's where that comes from. Yes, yes,

280
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:44.720
And then like it was further empowered after who the

281
00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:49.759
fuck's editing World War Two Eisenhower, I think so yeah, yeah,

282
00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:52.359
but we know this. But if it's not, let's pretend

283
00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:54.799
it is. But yeah, I think so, yeah, I think

284
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:58.680
so so yeah, yeah, just because it was their way

285
00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:04.440
to justify right medaling US and red medaling. Yeah, and

286
00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:09.160
they're terrorizing right of Central America and South America. Right.

287
00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:15.839
So the conflict over the ports was actually like a

288
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.559
smaller conflict within a larger conflict over the interpretation of

289
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.200
the Hey Bunao Treaty, and it was a question of

290
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.920
which country was entitled to the sovereignty over the canal zone,

291
00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:29.640
and this came to head in nineteen oh four, only

292
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.440
a year after the signing of the treaty. The main

293
00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:35.480
issue was that Banama and the US disagreed with the

294
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:39.079
treaty's third article, which gave the US control over the

295
00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:42.839
zone as if it were sovereign. The US and just

296
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:45.400
sir this to mean they had the powers of a

297
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.640
sovereign government, because of course they did, and to them

298
00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:51.559
this included the right to print postal stamps and to

299
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:55.319
establish customs between Banama and the Zone, which would separate

300
00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:59.319
the zone's markets from Banamas and would force Panamanians to

301
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:02.960
pay import duties while Panama in their own fucking country,

302
00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:08.599
right right, I'm like houseway, tell me how in my

303
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:14.640
own country? Come on. Yeah, and Banama believe the treaty

304
00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:17.759
had only given the US control over what it needed

305
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.200
for the construction, maintenance and defense of the canal, and

306
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.319
any other roles remained in the hands of Panama, which

307
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:29.000
makes sense, which is of course it's Inama in the country.

308
00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:32.119
You would think that this piece of land that was

309
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.119
made in their land, that is still in their land

310
00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:40.279
would be under their control, right. I mean there's more

311
00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:42.960
to that that I'm not going to get into, m HM.

312
00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:46.039
And precedent which I kind of talked about because this

313
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:51.480
is the practice that previous foreign that they need companies that. Yeah,

314
00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:54.839
but like we've been saying, it's just never enough for

315
00:19:55.119 --> 00:20:00.960
the good old US, right of a. And Banama's argument

316
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.400
was that it would have never entered into a contract

317
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.240
knowing that it would bring them in calculable damage, which

318
00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:13.200
are losing its ports. Yeah, very lepidate my face moment. Yeah, yeah,

319
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:15.640
it was for them and so yeah, they argued that

320
00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.200
losing their access or control of their ports and sovereignty

321
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:22.200
over the zone would harm them economically, and so that

322
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.119
they what, I've never signed a treaty saying that or

323
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.880
agreeing to that. And for US, the idea of Banama

324
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.960
controlling its ports and the zone was laughable because they're like,

325
00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:35.799
who are you, Like, you're what do you what do

326
00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:39.960
you mean? Yeah, you can barely read. Basically, that's what

327
00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.440
they're arguing, boiled down to, well, it boiled down to

328
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:47.720
you can barely read and you're dirty and gross. Fuck. Yeah, No,

329
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:51.000
of course it didn't. No it did. Yeah, they argued, No,

330
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.960
but yeah in the sense, yeah, you're such a right quote,

331
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:59.079
you guys are dirty and you're bringing disease to the

332
00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:04.359
ports is what they said. No, of course no, but yeah, kidding,

333
00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:07.599
I would start this again. But they argued that the

334
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:11.400
US needed to control the port for sanitation purposes, stating

335
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:16.200
that the sanitation benefits outweighed Banama's financial losses if it

336
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:19.480
were to lose control over its part. And then I

337
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.480
saw mentions of a protest in nineteen oh four over

338
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:26.160
this disagreement between Panama and the US in the book

339
00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:28.000
and also in other articles, and then I tried to

340
00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:30.839
look more into that, and the only thing I found

341
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:34.759
I couldn't access and everything else since it was talking

342
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:37.960
about the protests and in the nineteen sixties, I think,

343
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.400
like nineteen sixty four or something like that, so I

344
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:43.039
couldn't find more information about the nineteen oh four protests.

345
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:48.920
But either way, ultimately these diplomatic arguments and conflict led

346
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:53.480
to the Taft Agreement, in which Banama received some concessions,

347
00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:59.079
but ultimately canal ports were kept under US jurisdiction. And

348
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.599
some of those sessions were that they wouldn't be Like

349
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.839
there was a where I said imports whatever, they wouldn't

350
00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:11.519
be tex text THEIA. Yeah, like if it was a foreign, okay,

351
00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:16.599
import or whatever, because it's not right. It's not yeah.

352
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:21.319
Although many of these conflicts were arguments between Panamanian elites

353
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:24.240
and US elites, the US would later paint a picture

354
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:28.319
that it was an issue of the civilized versus the

355
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:34.279
non civilized, and later write the language became developed versus underdeveloped.

356
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.039
The US pushed this idea that the zone was a

357
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:41.319
wild jungle filled with native huts and towns, and it wasn't.

358
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:46.079
But the US travelers to this region described the houses

359
00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:50.319
as gerty huts and described the people, who were largely black,

360
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:54.000
as lazy people who disdained any work that was not

361
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:59.720
very lucrative. One traveler said, quote the natives have been

362
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:03.559
read rendered indolent by their climate and were apt to

363
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:08.240
depend almost entirely upon the abundant yield of tropical production

364
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:12.640
for their livelihood end quote, and said they had a

365
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:21.440
characteristic laziness and non chalons. Wow yeah wow. Others ridiculed

366
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:25.440
Panamanians by describing them as half naked and calling them primitive.

367
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.960
In reality, these towns along what would become the Panama

368
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.079
Canal Zone, like Gorgona and Chagaris, were bustling towns used

369
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.880
to dealing with foreigners, especially after the Gold Rush, since

370
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:41.200
US travelers would stop and Panama on their way from

371
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.279
the East to the West coast. Panamanians along the river

372
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.519
towns like Chagdis had developed their own rich culture which

373
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:51.960
was tied to being close to the river, and also

374
00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.359
had their own politics which was largely downplayed by the

375
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:58.920
US And I did include it here, but something that

376
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:02.119
I remember from the book is like Panamanians would make

377
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.640
fun of the US people from the us because they're

378
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.559
always in a rush, and they had like songs that

379
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:08.759
they would like make fun of them, or they would

380
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:12.119
like mimic the or mock the American to be like

381
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.799
ow Go Go. But it was it was a bustling

382
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:19.640
town with a thriving economy because it was along this

383
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:25.920
historic trade route that had existed forever, like four hundred years. Yeah.

384
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:31.160
In places like Gogana, black men were mayors since slavery

385
00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:34.440
had been abolished and universal man had suffrage had been

386
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:37.359
in place for a while, and Americans would often clash

387
00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:42.400
with the mayors because they were racists. Yeah, no, of course,

388
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:48.480
because of racism. Yeah. On one occasion, the black alcalde,

389
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.079
or mayor of Gurguana ordered his soldiers to control a

390
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:54.480
mob of Americans who were writing over the rest of

391
00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:57.240
a fellow American who had robbed some travelers from Chile.

392
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:00.480
It's like, you robbed someone face the time, man, you

393
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.839
did the time. No, you did the crime to the time. Yes, yes,

394
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:08.839
but no Americans in the entitlement, it doesn't apply to them. Yeah, right, Uh,

395
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:12.839
what is that other thing, American exceptionalism? You know, they're

396
00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:17.160
full of fucking shit. Yeah. So the alcalde noted that

397
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:20.799
robberies and disorder increased upon the arrival of the Americans,

398
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:24.160
because of course it did. Would you look at that, Wow,

399
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:28.759
was uncivilized? Actually, who are the real savages? The people

400
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:39.880
robbing clockett causing mayhem and disorder? Crime? Right. In another occasion,

401
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.359
the mayor of Goa intervened when he winnessed and enslaved

402
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.119
a woman being slashed by her American enslaver, and he

403
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.079
ended up freeing the women because that was Columbian a law.

404
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:55.279
Oh my god, I love that was federal law. And

405
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:58.279
you know, wherever you are, you respect the law exactly,

406
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:03.440
are you law abiding or not? Americans were not, of course,

407
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:08.240
and there's many accounts of Panamanians whispering to enslaved people

408
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.599
traveling with their enslavers that they could just escape, easily

409
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.720
escape and be free, and you can just stay you

410
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:18.920
just run away, run away, stay here. And other towns

411
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:23.079
along the Panama Canal zone were railroad towns, like the

412
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:26.960
towns of Empire and Gatun. Empire was the second largest

413
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.319
railroad town and only continue to grow as the US

414
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.400
developed the canal pretty much right away. Empire, like other

415
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:38.319
zone towns, was divided between an American side and a

416
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:42.599
Native side of course, because like American people cannot mingle

417
00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:48.640
and and what's it called get? Like what do they

418
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.759
tell people when you come from another country to the US,

419
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:55.839
You have to oh like acclimate yourself to the culture. Yes, okay,

420
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:59.240
but they can't work themselves to Yeah, but I can't

421
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.079
think of it. They can't anserate themselves to the cities

422
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:05.359
that were already in place in Panama because they're too

423
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:07.640
good for it, because they're racist, because they're better, and

424
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:12.000
they can't they can't be in next door to a free,

425
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:17.240
you know, black family. No, they're above that. So they're

426
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:20.119
going to sell segregate, and you know, I argue this

427
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:23.200
whole civilized non civilized that the United States was putting up.

428
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:27.599
Like you can tell who was uncivilized right away by

429
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:30.640
their how they view other people, because the United States

430
00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:36.200
was far from freeing enslaved people. Yeah, but no, they

431
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.599
don't see they don't see it. Some people still don't

432
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:46.279
see it, right, Some people, like certain people elected today

433
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.599
or not like it. But they were already in power

434
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:58.839
coming into power. Yeah, and I earlier on the Isthmian

435
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:05.559
so can pronounce that. Yeah, it's saman anyway, the Isthmian

436
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:09.680
Canal Commission or the ICCUH. This was the American administration

437
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.720
commission that oversaw the construction of the Panama Canal. So

438
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:18.039
the ICC thought, and that's something that the book mentions

439
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:22.119
that earlier on the plan was not to depopulate places.

440
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.240
So they thought that Empire would be a permanent town,

441
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:28.640
and they built many public buildings, laid out streets, built

442
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:31.519
a switch system, open public schools, and built the public

443
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:35.519
market just like really developed the city, right. Yeah. And

444
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:40.039
the ICC also developed and built housing in Gatun since

445
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:43.400
they knew that Gattun's occation was essential to the building

446
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.480
of the canal. But the ICC's work was rooted in

447
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:51.799
racism and the views we talked about earlier, like eugen

448
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:56.880
X white supremacy, and the ICC struggled to make local

449
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:03.440
towns conform to their urban and sanitary ideals. Between nineteen

450
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.079
oh four and nineteen fifteen, the Panama Canal Zone went

451
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:11.160
through three major periods. First, between nineteen oh four and

452
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:13.880
nineteen oh seven, which is kind of the period that

453
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:17.400
we were talking about right now, the ICC and the

454
00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:23.440
zone authorities kepped the old Panamanian municipal structures and zoned

455
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.359
towns had both Panamanian and American mayors. Then, during the

456
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.160
second period of nineteen oh seven through nineteen twelve, the

457
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:36.920
ICC got rid of the zone municipalities, which became administrative districts,

458
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:41.039
but most towns still remained in their original locations, and

459
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:43.880
the town residents were able to keep their properties and

460
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:47.920
basically stay where they were, okay, until they weren't. Yeah.

461
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:53.440
Between nineteen twelve and nineteen fifteen, the ICC depopulated the zone,

462
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:57.319
getting rid of its old towns and replacing them. In

463
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:01.160
nineteen twelve, President Taft issued an executive order to depopulate.

464
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.799
Between the years of nineteen thirteen and nineteen sixteen, about

465
00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:07.720
forty thousand were removed from the zone and the towns

466
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.279
in the zone like Atun Empire and Gorgona, and the

467
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:14.119
towns in the Zone were dismantled one by one. A

468
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.319
common myth is that the zone had to be depopulated

469
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:21.000
for technical requirements for the construction of the canal, But

470
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:25.519
that's not true. It was political, an excuse they made

471
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:30.440
up so that they could remove everyone. Right, And that's

472
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:36.079
where we'll leave off today, and I think next time

473
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.519
we'll talk a little bit more about these periods that

474
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:43.720
I just mentioned the years or the different time periods

475
00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:46.519
of the right now. I said there was three major periods. Yeah,

476
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:51.000
from nineteen four to basically nineteen fifteen, okay, and then

477
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:54.799
the removal of these towns. Is this period two or three?

478
00:30:55.240 --> 00:31:00.400
Uh three? So between in nineteen twelve okay, when that

479
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:04.720
executive order to depopulate was issued. And the third period

480
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:09.079
is between nineteen twelve and nineteen fifteen when the depopulation

481
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:11.640
was happening. So and next episode you're hoping to get

482
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.720
into periods two and three more? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

483
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:19.759
oh cool, cool, Okay, Okay, I'm excited. I'm ready. You're

484
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.880
not because you're not done yet. They're not done yet.

485
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:29.480
That is correct. Okay, Well, thanks so much for this

486
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.000
information because I did not know even just this part

487
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:35.160
and the last one. I don't know that much about

488
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:37.759
the canal zone. And it's again, it's a hot topic

489
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:39.599
right now. So that's I think why it was even

490
00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:43.039
better that you're covering it because somebody keeps fucking naming it. Yeah,

491
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:49.759
it is a right what you just said. Yes, yes,

492
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:54.640
so somebody keeps saying that the US is going to

493
00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:57.519
take back control over the pedemic canal and it's like, no,

494
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:01.079
stop it. You can't just v other countries, like what's

495
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:04.119
wrong with you? Not only is he saying that about

496
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:07.279
the Patama Canal, but what else did he? Dumb as shit?

497
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:11.599
He said, oh my god, Greenland? Yeah, right, the Gulf

498
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:15.799
of America. Dumb dumb. It just shut down the same

499
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:23.519
mouse like you're so stupid. Yeah, so fucking dumb. Yeah.

500
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:31.079
In other news, I mean, I'm not gonna get to

501
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.000
much into it because I just been watching videos. But

502
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.279
we've been talking or we talked before about okay, really fast,

503
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:44.079
they don't hear what I said, and I think we

504
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:48.039
talked about are we bringing back our segment? Yeah a little.

505
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:52.160
I guess it's not like super right in death. Nope.

506
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:57.599
All right. So and in other bullshit news, and I'm

507
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:00.640
gonna put the noise downd here, Yeah, yes, all right,

508
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:08.000
go on. So Minidia or allowing the mining, Yes, there

509
00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:11.119
was a law right that has been in place that

510
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:15.799
banned mining and then the longest time, the longest of times, yeah,

511
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:20.480
Bukula dismantled that law, basically allowing the mining. And I

512
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.759
can't remember if it's a certain region, but basically I

513
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:25.200
mean the mining, allowing mining again and some of LOTT,

514
00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:30.480
which was outlawed because of the destruction it causes to

515
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:34.200
the environment, right, right, And these were protected rivers and

516
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.599
land right right, that needed protecting and hence the law

517
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:44.079
that was put in place. Right. And he also like

518
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:46.880
last year or was it the year before, I remember,

519
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.119
because they were in jail for a while, he arrested

520
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:56.079
some of the activists that were vital in creating or

521
00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:59.960
banning mining right. Oh yeah, this was like almost two

522
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:06.079
years ago. Yeah, yeah, So they were eventually freed. But

523
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:09.320
his motive for arresting them was bullshit. It was basically

524
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:16.000
exercising his power, like it was basically dictator behavior. Gone.

525
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:18.920
Part of the state of exception was so that he

526
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:23.320
could races them without exactly immunity, was doing whatever he wanted.

527
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.679
And that's it's not about the gangs. It's not all

528
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:29.599
about the quote unquote gangs activists, but a lot of

529
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:37.280
them got arrested, professors, journalists, fleet because they were being targeted. Yeah,

530
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.480
and it's all like, oh, well someone said you were

531
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:44.840
talking to a gang member. How do you dispute that? Yeah,

532
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:49.599
So just a bunch of bullshit. And so recently Bukelen

533
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:53.679
his dumbass supporters passed a law or like I said,

534
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:57.719
dismantled this law to allow mining again. And I think

535
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:01.199
it went to effect at the time recording the weekend

536
00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:02.840
I just passed. And so there's been a lot of

537
00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:07.800
people and protesting against this law, and it's just been

538
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:11.039
beautiful to see the has Oh and this I keep

539
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:13.039
seeing you've sent me, but I've seen them on my

540
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:16.079
for you pages because TikTok is back, and so we've

541
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:18.519
been we've been seen on the for you page. This

542
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:22.400
curly heart queen just you know about this and I

543
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:25.719
love her. Yeah, so we can share her user name,

544
00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:28.239
so anyone that wants to keep up with the protest.

545
00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:31.320
And it's so dangerous to be protesting in these times,

546
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:35.119
but it's important because the land is being destroyed for

547
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.320
mining and it's all again for profit, but none of

548
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:41.480
it is benefiting the people of not the people that

549
00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:45.199
need it. It's benefiting the rich, as it always does.

550
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:54.480
I believe her page is underscore Esseve Cincoce. Okay, well

551
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:57.480
we'll link it in the show notes as well. Yeah,

552
00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:00.480
maybe we can just link that first video I sent you, Yeah, yes, yeah,

553
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:03.559
well you know, just like copy the linkin and put

554
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:06.599
it in your notes. But yeah, I just wanted to

555
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:09.800
mention that it's been beautiful to see all the protests

556
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:15.920
and people coming together against book. M hm. Is there

557
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.960
anything you want to add before we go? No, No,

558
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.199
I think that's it. Oh you know what, Actually, one

559
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:27.440
more thing since we're here. Uh my last TikTok post

560
00:36:27.639 --> 00:36:30.599
before it is shut down. I talked about this book

561
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:35.159
I've been reading. Let me just get the full title out. Oh, yes,

562
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:39.480
we're doing recommendations. We recommend you follow the TikTok user.

563
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:43.960
We just set yes, right. The book is the Palestine

564
00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:48.800
La Lab Laboratory, Laboratory, laboratory. Yeah, look at me, like

565
00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:55.599
fucking dexter laboratory. Okay, dexter, fucking dexter, all right, the

566
00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:59.679
Palatine Laboratory. How Israel exports the technology of occupation around

567
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:05.199
the world. Old by Anthony Loewenstein. And honestly, like anyone

568
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:09.440
that maybe even didn't know about this issue, but now

569
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:15.559
it has has woken up to how torrible the situation is.

570
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:18.360
And and anyone who's like suddenly like no free pales

571
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:21.519
sign all day. This is a must read, not only

572
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:26.159
because like it really shows you how how insidious the

573
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:32.840
Israeli government is. But it it really really goes into

574
00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:37.320
how deep they were in the right winged regimes in

575
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:40.559
Latin America, like outside about Lord during the Civil War,

576
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:44.679
the military junta and Nargentina. They're involvement with the Guatemalan

577
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:49.360
genocide of the Maya, the indigenous Maya. It talks about

578
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:52.760
all that, but also one and I'm like learning so

579
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:56.840
much from this book. But and I shared quotes from

580
00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:59.119
the book in my post. It's hard to hear though,

581
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.719
because I was walking, Yeah, my my fifty minute walk

582
00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:07.440
to get my steps. But multitasking, Queen, I know, I tried.

583
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:11.119
Plus it was TikTok was gonna supposed to go dark

584
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:12.639
on that, Like I gotta get the stop, I gotta

585
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:16.599
get time to make it pretty. So they all, we're back,

586
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:19.679
and we're fucking back. What a waste of time. But

587
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:22.679
I read quotes from the book that are like that

588
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:27.400
left me my job open. But one of the worst

589
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:32.559
to me was learning how similar the US border and

590
00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:38.360
Gaza really are because the surveillance system used on the

591
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:42.760
Palestinians in Gaza, like they know exactly who everyone is.

592
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:47.800
Their facial recognition software is truly insane. And so scary

593
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:50.719
that it exists. But this is the same systems that

594
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:54.679
are in place in the US border. And the book

595
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:58.840
talked about how like drones are regularly used on Palestinians

596
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.280
like that gets too close to the wall or that

597
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:04.320
are protesting that these drones just like shoot and just criminately.

598
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:07.760
And these same drones are were purchased like in twenty

599
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:10.559
twenty two for the US border, So it's not far

600
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:13.000
fetched to say that soon these drones are just gonna

601
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:16.119
start shooting at migrants trying to or asylum seekers trying

602
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:19.400
to come in, and that it's like first maybe it'll

603
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:23.679
be shocking, but eventually some people in the US are

604
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:25.880
just going to be like whatever, that's that's what they get.

605
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:28.639
I mean, that's already what they do to all the

606
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:33.280
whorees that the I sell asylum seekers experience. Yeah, I

607
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:36.760
was gonna not discussing the people that already excuse it, right, right,

608
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.000
I already have this belief. But I see they're going

609
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:41.599
to straight up be like murdering people at the border

610
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:45.360
with these drones they were already purchased. That's what the

611
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:50.719
drones do. Terrifying. Yeah, And there was talk about these dogs,

612
00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:53.440
these robot dogs. Oh my god. This is also like

613
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:55.519
the Hunger Games. Like I don't want to like be like,

614
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:57.800
you know, the typical white person that brings in like

615
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:01.239
ya dystopia, because the author of the Hunger King, yes,

616
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:04.800
took these ideas like things that have already happened in

617
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.559
real life. Just like what's the other author of the

618
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:12.239
other book that white people women love to bring up

619
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:16.039
that everything was based in two events anyway, Oh the

620
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:19.599
Handmaids tell oh yeah, right, yeah, they love to be

621
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:21.679
like this is gonna be Handmaids Town. It's like, you

622
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:26.920
know something already like that. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, that's

623
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:28.840
and that's what all these books are. But back to

624
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:32.480
the other book, that's actual true, right happening. I don't

625
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:36.159
know the jelationship come back? Come back? Are the dogs

626
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:39.159
the dogs? Yes, yeah, they're gonna. I don't think they're

627
00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:43.320
in use yet. But these these this technology is all

628
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:46.880
Israeli made. Like that's the reason. One of the reasons

629
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:48.639
they've made so much money is because they test and

630
00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:51.760
this is a new knowledge, but they test these systems

631
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:55.119
on the Palestinians and then they sell it to the world. Yeah,

632
00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:57.000
and they don't care who buys it. They don't care.

633
00:40:57.119 --> 00:40:59.119
This is why they sold so many things to all

634
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:03.880
those right wing regimes that were literally Nazi. Oh yeah,

635
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:12.239
like yeah yeah, and even even like nacotrigants will buy

636
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:17.519
these and then use these things to uh assassinate journalists.

637
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:20.960
They don't care who's buying it. The book also goes

638
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:23.599
into the murder of a journalist in Mexico and how

639
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:28.239
the use of pegasus uh was related or helped the

640
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:33.480
people who killed the journalists. And pegasism is another is

641
00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:38.079
Reelly software. Yeah, all for you know, surveillance, state surveillance,

642
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:42.159
and you know migrants obviously migrants and asylum seekers, you know,

643
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:44.679
they're the same one and the same they're going to

644
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.920
be affected by already being affected by these systems. But

645
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:51.880
also indigenous people that live along the border that have

646
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:55.599
been there, you know, they're indigenous forever. They're also being

647
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:59.119
targeted because they they live in the same state surveillance. Uh,

648
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:05.159
they're it's just it's so much. But like there's already

649
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:08.440
you know, with the increasing raids that are happening and

650
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:11.400
the mass deportations that are cut to come, there's already

651
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:14.559
indigenous people being harassed about like oh are you are

652
00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:18.880
you native, where's your identification? Can you prove it? And

653
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.840
during Operation Wetback, a lot of them were deported or

654
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:27.599
almost deported because they look because it's all racial based

655
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:32.639
and so many of us are not white, are darker, right,

656
00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:39.440
So yeah, all this to just say read that book please. Yeah,

657
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.679
and we'll put it in the show notes too. But yeah, okay,

658
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:44.360
that's it. That's it. I was just looking at my

659
00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:46.639
library to see if they had it, but they don't. Wow,

660
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:50.039
your livery sucks. Yeah, they have some other books on

661
00:42:50.119 --> 00:42:54.000
palest Sign, but not that one. Oh okay, okay, I

662
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:56.000
want to get the hard copy. There's just there's so

663
00:42:56.039 --> 00:42:59.159
many books. Are you listening to the audiobook? No? I

664
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.280
actually got the e book. Oh, I see, because I

665
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:04.280
wanted to highlight things because when you highlight things on

666
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:09.320
candolet's say so forever, so yeah, then your highlights. So yeah,

667
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.360
I want her to highlight things. So yeah, I got

668
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:15.400
that e book, but I want the physical book. Okay.

669
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:17.039
That I think that brings us to the end of

670
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:20.800
the episode. Thank you everyone for listening, and we hope

671
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:22.639
that this was one list. It's story unknown for you.

672
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:24.239
Bye bye.