Feb. 20, 2025

A Brief History of the Panama Canal Zone (Part Four)

A Brief History of the Panama Canal Zone (Part Four)

The Panama Canal is now controlled by Panama, but before that, France and then the United Stated coveted and gained control of the zone, to develop the canal. Many lives were lost during the development of the canal, and many were displaced for the...

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The Panama Canal is now controlled by Panama, but before that, France and then the United Stated coveted and gained control of the zone, to develop the canal. Many lives were lost during the development of the canal, and many were displaced for the creation of the canal. The role of Panama in its own development is often forgotten or minimized.

In part four, Carmen discusses how the displacement of Panamians in the canal zone went down, how the history of that displacement was rewritten and about the tragic day known as Martyr's Day.

If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/

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Music Credit: Hustlin (Instrumental) by Neffex

Sources:
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1977-1980/panama-canal
Erased: The Untold Story of the Panama Canal by Marixa Lasso
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEmtX9vOroL/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng%3D%3D
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/tr-panama/
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/national-international/a-history-of-the-panama-canal-and-why-the-us-cant-just-take-it-back/3707946/
https://therealnews.com/the-panama-canal-under-the-shadow-episode-12 ​​https://read.dukeupress.edu/hahr/article/46/1/28/158412/Philippe-Bunau-Varilla-New-Light-on-the-Panama
https://www.tiktok.com/@colocha_sv503/video/7458308116132777221?_r=1&_t=ZT-8tEng0cxa0M
https://aadl.org/node/246042
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/apr/06/story-cities-16-panama-canal-zone-history-us-run-divided-city
https://www.icj.org/wp-content/uploads/1964/01/Panama-disturbances-fact-finding-mission-report-1964-eng.pdf

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WEBVTT

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Hi everyone, This is Carmen and Christina. This is Esodia Unknown,

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a podcast where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes

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it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like racism, corruption,

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and genocide. But more than that, it's also by resistance,

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power and community. And sorry about missing last week. Carmen here, Yes,

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I'm so sorry. Twas my fault, it was her fault. Okay,

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So let's get into this. We have been talking about

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the Panama Canal so far. We have talked about the

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Panama Canal before US intervention, when the French were trying

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to develop the canal, how the Panama Canal came under

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control of the US, the eugenics slash racists and colonial

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beliefs of the time, which you know had a huge

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influence in how the canal was developed and blah blah,

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and how the Panama Canal Zone towns went from democratically

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run municipalities to ICC run administrative districts. So that's what

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we have covered so far. Yes, in this journey. It's

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been a journey, yes, And we're going to get into

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the depopulation of the zone towns today and a little

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bit more also, okay, and that we're also going to

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talk about Martyr's Day. I don't know what that is.

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What are you going to find out? Yes, So last

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week we left off with the depopulation order of December

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nineteen twelve made by Teddy Roosevelt, because we talked for

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a while about his speech that was called the Teddy

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something or the whatever, the Monroe doctrine. And then but

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there's another one that's similar with that heat that's specific,

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the Roosevelt corollary. Yeah, yes, yes, So a popular myth

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of the time that people continue to repeat and believe

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was what was that the zone towns had to be

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depopulated due to canal construction, But this was not true.

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The historical erasure of these towns, along with the Panamanian

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contributions to his own life, have been so forgotten that

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even Panamanians were surprised to learn about these historical towns.

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The depopulation order came after a long period of debate

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among canal officials, with the debates largely being about the

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difficulties of regulating the zone towns and whether it was

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worth the effort of regulating and modernizing these towns into

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more quote American towns. Is this even worth it. That's

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what they are. That's what they debated about. Yeah, in

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that tone, they said it, do we even want to

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do this? Guys? Guys? Should we actually like? Are these

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savages worth it? Is just a worth our effort? And

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basically that's what it boiled down to. Yeah, jeez, yeah,

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word for word basically, Yeah. I have quotes later ICC

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authorities like the chairman George Gotthol's chief sanitary officer, William Gorgis.

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We talked about him last time too. I forgot to

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put that in my summary anyway, And the head engineer

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over the Central Division of the canal, David Geillard, debated

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amongst each other, with some feeling like Panamanians could remain

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living in the zone and others feeling like the towns

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had to be relocated. Gaillard thought quote it was undesirable

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to have a native town anywhere near the docks, that

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such town would necessarily be a place for rum selling,

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drunkenness and disorder. Oh look, more stereotypes. Wow, yeah, shocking.

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Others felt that the towns like Balbois could serve as

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military basis, and Gelliard felt that quote squalid native villages

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or slums had no businesses being near military bases. Very rude. Yeah.

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Gaillard also felt that the ICY he was under no

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obligation to help the Panamanians that would have to be

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relocated by locating them to a suitable town, and that

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their only obligation was to pay the owners the cost

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of the damages done to their few houses of quote

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cheap construction and very poor repair. I have no words

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other than this is the American way. Yeah. And there's

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more to be said, including other ICC authorities disagreeing with Gallered,

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some disagreed, some wanted to do the writing, and they

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felt like the ICIC old Panemanians more. But for the

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sake of time, we're going to skip right over that. Okay. Ultimately,

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Gaillard and those that agreed with him or won the debate.

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Besides debating amongst each other, ICC officials also brought the

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issue to the US Congress, and Gottos ended up testifying

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in one of the congressional hearings about this. And just

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like the debates amongst the ICC officials, the main questions

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the Congressional committee members had boiled down to whether it

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was desirable to keep the black population of the zone

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towns there or not. Wow. And I think I had

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mentioned before that the majority of Panamanians in this area,

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and I mean majority in general, are black. Yeah, we're

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black back then also, and most of the migrants, like

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from the West Indies and the Caribbean were also black,

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like the workers of the zone and stuff. Yeah. One

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committee member even said quote, the contensus opinion of every

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witness has been I think that there are no tracks

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on this zone which are of any value in attracting

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any kind of desirable population. That American population will not

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come here because it cannot support itself, that it will deteriorate,

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and that it ought not to be encouraged. That the

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only kind of population that would come would be an

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undesirable black population, which would deteriorate, be a menace to

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the welfare of the community, require expensive government and policing system,

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and be detrimental to the best interests in operating the canal.

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Ugh yep wow. Another engineer said, quote, My idea is

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this that the zone should be depopulated with the exception

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of the fourth necessary to operate the canal. All the

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others should be concentrated in the towns at the end

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where they can be policed and fimigated more economically. Wow,

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and there's more racist and eugenous quotes, but they're like,

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oh more of this, yeah, yeah, more of the same

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point being that they were really racist and eugenists, and

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it was these racists and eugenis believes behind the depopulation,

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not the logistics involving the development of the canal, as

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is so commonly believed. There were others, though, that disagreed

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and felt it was more necessary to police the twenty

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five hundred Americans that were there as they should as

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they should have. They stated, quote, the Americans needed a

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law more than anybody else. Yeah, but yeah, I mean

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ultimately the side that wanted the deep population one. Of course,

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months before the official depopulation order was made in nineteen eleven,

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the people of Gorgona were notified that their area would

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be flooded in the creation of the Gatun Dam. And

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today there are only a few documents that show how

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the people of Gourguna felt about their displacement. And this

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was one of the only places that actually had to

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relocate because of flooding from building the dam. Okay, they

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are literally like one of the only places everywhere else

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was not the case. Everywhere else was because they didn't

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want black Panamanians near them, yeah, or migrants. One of

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these documents was a collective public letter from October nineteen

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twelve that Gogana residents got together to write to Panamaza

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National Assembly demanding support from the government. In the letter,

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they asked for help from the government for public lands

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to resettle and restart their lives, especially since Banama had

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done this in the past. And I don't mean it

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makes sense if you're moving someone because you don't want

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them there anymore, you should help them move to wherever

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you find like a location for them, instead of making

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them finger it out. Yeah, like ideally you wouldn't move them,

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but like, if you're forcing them to move, fucking help them.

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But one of the reasons they were asking for this

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help was because in the past, the Panaminian government had

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given vacant lands to European immigrants. Oh, so they were

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just asking for the same treatment right in their own country. Right.

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At times the government did help defend the legal rights

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of Panamanians, but sometimes they also convinced Panamanians to accept

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the US terms and demands. And again there's more information

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about that that we're skipping over. So in the letter Gourgana,

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residents expressed their frustration and sadness about being asked to

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leave their homes and hear some of their words we

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shall all remain, such as nomadic tribes, homeless and without bread,

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and then they described how difficult this time was for them.

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Quote hours of enguish in the course of our life

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like that's how they described that time, which makes sense right.

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They also wrote the painful hour when we shall see

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disappear the flourishing towns of Gurgona, Mattachin, Mamae, San Pablo, Gamboa, Obispo,

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and Cruses. So Gorogana was just the biggest town in

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the area, but there was a lot of smaller towns too,

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right The depopulation process was a longer one, especially with

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Panamanians trying to fight for their rights. But finally, in

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June nineteen thirteen, Zone police put notices around town saying

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you're hereby notified to remove or destroy your building in

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the town of Gorogona before August first, nineteen thirteen and

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so far as available, the Panama Railroad Company will furnish

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care for the free transportation of the lumber and material

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in your house to Panama or curon. It will be

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necessary for the ICC to destroy your building if not

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removed before August first, nineteen thirteen. So after a couple

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of years of being in limbo because we're going to

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residents were waiting to hear whether Panama was going to

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help them, like the government that and also whether they

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would receive compensation if they moved before. Like a lot

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of things were in legal limbo basically, So after a

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couple of years, a couple of years have been in limbo,

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going our residents were told they had one month to

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leave their town, but they go to go. Our residents

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kept fighting because there was still a lot of unanswered

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questions like were they still entitled to competation for their

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properties if they dismantled their houses, if they did not

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take them apart, would they still get compensation? So there

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was like a lot and yeah, the question was like, okay,

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what if we wait until they destroy our houses, are

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you still going to pay us? Like things like that.

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Ultimately some go to on. Our residents settled as individuals

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with the ICC and the there was another organization that

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didn't write down, but it was like the Land Commission

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or some shit like that oh I did it right

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now anyway, oh my god. And so so some residents

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settled with them, they got their payment, and they started relocating,

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while while others waited it out because they weren't sure

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what was going to happen. And while free transportation was provided,

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it proved difficult to transport thousands of people and their houses,

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like the materials of their houses. By late August nineteen thirteen,

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the trains were transporting about two hundred and fifty people

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per day to New Argona to resettle there. And there

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were a lot more logistical issues that caused Gorogona residents

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plenty of headaches and inconvenience that we won't get into

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again for the stake of time. But the main point

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is that the people of Gorogana were confused and had

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to deal with a lot as they arrived to their

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new location of New Grogana. For example, sometimes they had

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to wait on the train cars with their belongings for

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six hours. And this isn't the same as today waiting

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for your stuff, Like right, you're like they're in the

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elements waiting for their stuff. Yes, that's one thing, and

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another thing is there's nowhere for them to go because

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they have to build their houses. Right, like Goa, there

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was barely any buildings because they had to build their

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own houses that they had to unassemble or disassemble to

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tracks for it. And I don't think I wrote it down,

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but I also wrote about like a lot of people

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not having like shade in the train ride and like

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kids being like severely sunburned and stuff. Yeah, they couldn't

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even give them covered trains. Right. By September, it got

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even harder for Gogana residents to relocate because the ICC

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tore up the tracks connecting Panama City to Cologne City.

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And mind you, these residents only waited that long because

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they weren't receiving answers about whether they would be paid

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right even if they chose to dismantle their houses. I

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don't believe anyone for waiting until the last minute to

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leave their home that has been their home forever. Right.

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Many homeowners pleaded for help transporting their housing materials, but

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in response, the ICC said the homeowners had ample time

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00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:10.399
to remove their houses, as they were notified in June

213
00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:13.799
or July that the settlements would be abandoned. But again,

214
00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:16.720
this wasn't the case because they were waiting on confirmation

215
00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:19.519
about their payments, and they didn't find out un till

216
00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:22.559
early September, and it was like, let's say, mid September

217
00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:27.600
when they tore the tracks and communication got around so

218
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:31.080
much slower back then, you know. So yeah, yeah, email,

219
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.600
it wasn't a phone call. No, there wasn't enough time. No,

220
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.080
And even if there was, I don't care another thing.

221
00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:49.360
They in their statement, the ICC called these areas settlements settlements.

222
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:51.720
It was Yeah, it was a long established town and

223
00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:53.759
so this was just another way for them to like

224
00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:58.960
minimize the damage they round doing. Yes, yeah, you're reading

225
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:04.120
my topic, zeal. It's like Ris wins for reasons. Yeah.

226
00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.799
And there were a lot more legal issues and fighting

227
00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:10.320
for compensation between Panamanians and the ICC and the Land

228
00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:13.639
Commission that again we won't get into. But one of

229
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:17.799
those was that Panamanians reported being pressured by the ICC

230
00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:21.840
to sign away their leases without any competition. I mean

231
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:25.440
that's not surprising at all either. Yeah, as well as

232
00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:29.000
the ic C under valuing land and paining Panamanians less

233
00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:32.159
than what was worse. Yeah, okay, you know what, I'm

234
00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:36.200
not even surprised. I was expecting this. Yeah, yeah, if

235
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.000
if this wasn't the case, I would have been surprised.

236
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.000
While Panamanians had to fight for competition and sometimes received

237
00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:46.399
help against the ICC from the government, West Indian and

238
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:50.559
Caribbean immigrants received no competition and no help, although they

239
00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.919
made up the majority of the population in the zone

240
00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:57.679
because the majority of the workers had immigrated there. Right.

241
00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.039
The Commissioner of Panama even requested that separate railroad cars

242
00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:08.519
be used for Panamanians and West Indians. Oh so segregation, Yeah,

243
00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:12.600
I don't like that. While depopulation was going on, the

244
00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:17.960
Panamanian government passed laws banning immigration from China and West India.

245
00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:21.440
And what's the news like the Caribbean, right, they're like,

246
00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:25.080
we've already used you for your labor, no more of you. Yeah.

247
00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:30.000
But while they passed laws banning immigration from these areas,

248
00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:36.000
they promoted European immigration. By I hate this, Oh my god,

249
00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:40.879
it's giving me like PTSC from like Bukala promoting to

250
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:44.120
the US. No we're not going to now. Yeah what

251
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.840
did I say to the US? Yeah? My bad, my

252
00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:49.679
men's have worn off. I'm dying, but against my life,

253
00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.480
I have some backups to last me, like two months,

254
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:58.720
I see. So yeah, they were promoting European immigration by

255
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:03.480
publishing announcements in newspapers trying to attract European immigrants, and

256
00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:10.759
this was again to blankyard the population very discussing. Yeah,

257
00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:15.600
Panemanian citizens and European immigrants were given free plots of

258
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:20.480
land in New Goggana, while West Indians had to purchase plots,

259
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:25.600
And while Panamanian citizens and European immigrants received compensation for

260
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:29.320
relocating to New Gogogana, West Indian immigrants were only offered

261
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.919
free tickets to return to Jamaica, but no competition for

262
00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:37.759
the houses they owned. Wow wow, And like they moved

263
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:42.759
to work on this canal or whatever, rebuilt lives because

264
00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:45.600
that's you know, when you move, you move everything. Yeah.

265
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.440
At this point there had been there like for more

266
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:51.000
than one generation, like decades, right yea, yeah, and so

267
00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:56.399
they've like made their lives here and now they're like whatever,

268
00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.279
fuck you. And there was already a long history of

269
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:07.440
like immigran because of the first the railroad, right yeah. Ultimately,

270
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.200
the relocation to New Googagona felled and sixty percent of

271
00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.799
the New Orgona residents ended up believing for many reasons

272
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.039
some of those reasons or that Gogna was a merchant town,

273
00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:22.440
and so many go to Gona residents had stores. But

274
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:26.279
now in Ygoorgona, they were no longer located in a

275
00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:30.680
bustling merchant town, and so they didn't have customers anymore

276
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.519
to fuying things. Yeah. Yeah, there was like an over

277
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:39.039
population of stores and yeah, over satuation. I guess that's

278
00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:44.559
that's the smart word. There were also no physicians, midwives,

279
00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.279
or drug stores or telephone slash telegraph services in town,

280
00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.039
and there was no railroad and no river, and eighteen

281
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:55.720
people had died from stagnant water because when people arrived,

282
00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:58.680
the stuff that they had a promise would be ready

283
00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:02.119
was not ready for them. The infrastructure in the town,

284
00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:07.759
that's the word living. It wasn't there. The stuff. There

285
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.480
was no infrastructure basically, yeah, or stuff, you know, Yeah,

286
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:15.160
the stuff wasn't there. In an anonymous letter signed by

287
00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.640
various victims, that's how they signed their letter, like I'm

288
00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:24.200
a victim too, Yeah, various victims expressed the pain of

289
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:28.680
their displacement and anger for not receiving fair competition. They

290
00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:34.759
called their letter the Offspring of our Wounded Hearts. So poetic, wow,

291
00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.000
But because there was so much pain there you know no,

292
00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.119
of course, and here are some of their words. Quote,

293
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.920
I'm ready to cry, colonel before God. There is no

294
00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:47.400
merit in the glory you're trying to gain at our

295
00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:51.640
cost by ruining us and hurling us into the abyss.

296
00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.599
And that's what they did. Yeah. The all powerful, the

297
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.880
only impartial judge without a salary, the giver of truth

298
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.119
and justice, will know how in good time to crucify

299
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.400
those guilty of what we are suffering at the hands

300
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.200
of the Imperial Yankee represented by you. Your name will

301
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.759
win glory with the deeds you accomplish with the poor unfortunates,

302
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:16.400
but that will be on earth, where all is efimle

303
00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:20.079
Oh okay, I don't know whatever. No, that's not right

304
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:23.759
efimal hold on, hold on, let me look this up. Yeah,

305
00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.440
I don't even know how to spell it. Your name

306
00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:29.000
will when glory with the deeds you accomplish with the

307
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.039
poor unfortunates, but that will be on earth, where all

308
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:37.279
is ephemeral. Damn it if I'm just going to play

309
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.359
that after your attempt, Okay, I'm not going to say

310
00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:44.599
it again. The point is that I can pronounce that word. Yeah,

311
00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:47.960
but there in the other world where everything has to

312
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.680
be just and right. It will be different. He who

313
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:54.200
makes victims of the poor unfortunate cannot be glorified by God.

314
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.039
And this reminded me of the speech from the Adams family, which,

315
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.559
oh wo, when Wednesday's like years from now, your people

316
00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.240
will be blah blah blah. It just I don't know,

317
00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:07.000
it gives out those vibes. No, but it is. It

318
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.440
is true, and like we can only hope that. I mean,

319
00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:13.640
it has yet to happen, you know, Like yeah, but no,

320
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.240
I mean, what else can you do but like try

321
00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:20.200
and curse everyone? And this comes up again later. Oh yeah,

322
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.759
in the letter they're like, you know, we can't do

323
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:28.759
anything now, you guys fucking suck with your pinky bullshit,

324
00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:34.279
but God they will punish you. Yeah, yeah, so yeah.

325
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:36.519
The main points of the letter were to express how

326
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:39.640
sad and difficult it was for the Pandemanians to leave

327
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:44.759
their homes. Sad, difficult, infuriating. Yeah, that the US cared

328
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.359
more about the glory to be gained from building the

329
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.079
canal than the pain they cost, of course, and that

330
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:55.000
the compensation they received was unjust and yeah, and it

331
00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:59.720
was truly. The letter also said that the Canal authorities

332
00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:03.319
burned down houses after forcing people out. But I haven't.

333
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.160
I didn't look up anywhere else to see what happened.

334
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.839
But the letter expressed that that happened. I believe it

335
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.799
me too. The letter also expressed that Panamanians were under

336
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:16.359
no obligations to contribute their lands to the development of

337
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.599
military bases, and that the US should have acquired the

338
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:24.279
land legitimately. So the they're in their letter, they're like

339
00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:27.440
accusing the government. You're saying, you need these lands for

340
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:31.279
the canal. You actually want them to build military bases.

341
00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:35.480
And we do not owe you our land for you

342
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:38.119
to build military base, military bases on it. And I

343
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.160
mean the US did end up building military bases, yeah,

344
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.720
the yeah, depipulated zones, not only in the canal you

345
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:49.880
know zone. Yeah, but it's true, like if they're invoking

346
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.240
the treaty that was not in the agreement of the treaty, no,

347
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.880
you know, and so and so they thus they are

348
00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:02.079
invalidating the treaty themselves. Yeah, but that doesn't matter to them, No,

349
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.759
it doesn't. And the letter ended with the words, from

350
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.599
gatun to the most remote place of the canal zone,

351
00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:13.039
we're uniting in a single echo the most righteous melddictions

352
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:17.480
which each one of those victims is hurling upon you

353
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:21.519
and your government every day as the only consolation that

354
00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:25.960
remains to them. So basically, all we can do, or

355
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:27.880
all that is left for us to say or do,

356
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:34.880
is to manalos yes as what it says. Okay, souse,

357
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:37.720
they're saying like all of us were uniting in this

358
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:44.400
big yeah, yeah, go to hell. And there's also a

359
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.759
song from that time that oh well, the song became

360
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.359
popular like about ten years later after the depopulation orders,

361
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.079
but it was a recorded song, and not many songs

362
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.400
of that time were recorded, right. That just shows how

363
00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:02.720
popular it was. Do you have the name it? So

364
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:05.920
the song, I don't know. It just it didn't really

365
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:07.519
have a name in the book. It just said it's

366
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:15.920
a version of a song called and a Kite. Oh

367
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:20.680
and the genre of the song is which is a

368
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:24.480
popular genre of that time, and the group that sings

369
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:55.759
it is a group of is Meno. It's old. So

370
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:57.759
it's hard to understand. Yeah, and I have the words

371
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.119
here in cas it's hard to understand, so I won't

372
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:03.400
read all of it, but here's some of it. Go

373
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:21.519
Helpdovavava colpa, vamos pronto Panama, colvaan colpova, TiO sam colpeva

374
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:28.519
no second forman canal co helpdova, to keren a, capar

375
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:43.000
colvo Panama, colva, respirat colpeva it opata go helpdva. We

376
00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:45.839
just really like some of it without the nine that repeats,

377
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:51.440
which is the cold. Yeah. The total is mose naran

378
00:24:52.319 --> 00:25:05.559
last Sam either no charan the most todos Banama and

379
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:18.200
in Gistanama they're pretty much repezza after that. But as

380
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.519
an English, okay cool. Take the kite before it flies away.

381
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:26.440
Take the kite before it flies away. It flies away,

382
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.440
it flies away. Let's leave Banama soon. Take the kite

383
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.519
before it flies away. If we don't leave, they'll throw

384
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.960
us out. Take the kite before it flies away, because

385
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:39.960
those children of Uncle Sam. Take the kite before it

386
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.200
flies away, do not have enough with the canal. Take

387
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:45.759
the fly before it flies away. They want to see

388
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.839
z all. Take the kite before it flies away. And

389
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.680
the natives of Banama, and the natives of Banama, we

390
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:57.039
can't even breathe anymore. They demand everything with liberty. It

391
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.240
flies away, it flies away, flying, it comes and flying

392
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:04.880
it goes of all the isthmus. They'll become owners Uncle

393
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:07.799
Sam's little sheep from our homes. They'll throw us out.

394
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.480
We must all emigrate, let us all leave Banama. It

395
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.880
flies away, it flew away. They say they're on the road.

396
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:20.519
Take the kite before it flies away. Wow, powerful stuff there. Yeah,

397
00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:25.839
my favorite lines are the children of Uncle Sam. What

398
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.319
was the the one that I was like, damn Uncle

399
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:31.519
Sam's little Sheep. Yeah, I was gonna say that was

400
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:33.960
my favorite party. Oh and then also where they say

401
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:38.559
they demand everything with liberty. Yeah, wasn't that so powerful?

402
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:42.440
Because I'm like, how many times is this story of

403
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:45.839
freedom and liberty and blah blah blah and it's like

404
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:50.880
for who though, Yeah, exactly. Wow, that's a powerful song there.

405
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.200
So Yeah. Basically, the song's recurring theme was that Banama

406
00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.880
no longer belonged to Panamanians, that the US would not

407
00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.480
be satisfied with the canal and would take all Panama

408
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:06.680
and throw Pannumanians out. So that was the depopulation of

409
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:10.200
one zone town, but this played out through the other

410
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:13.640
Zone towns, who were even more shocked at their displacement.

411
00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:16.799
Because the US could not use the excuse of the

412
00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:21.359
flooding from the creation of Le Gatun. Right, Gogana is

413
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:23.519
the only one that was going to be flooded, and

414
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:26.200
the everything talents that they mentioned in the letters, but yeah,

415
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.559
everything else is not in the area for the building

416
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:35.920
or for anything. And even some had already moved once

417
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.960
and resettled in places like New Gatoun. And then we're

418
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:41.559
asked to leave again, Oh my god, and not asked really,

419
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:46.400
you know, to demand for force. Yeah, okay, So I

420
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:48.839
wanted to talk a little bit about the people of

421
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.640
New Gatun who were being asked to leave a second time.

422
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.680
So I didn't write down the dates of the orders

423
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.559
or anything, but the point is that the people of

424
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:04.480
Newgatoun they didn't leave by the deadline that they were

425
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:09.599
given because they said fuck this. And as a response

426
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:13.400
to encourage them to leave, the ICC shut off their water.

427
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:18.880
And then wow, two years after the depopulation order the

428
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:21.720
people and some had left, of course, but you know,

429
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:23.400
there were still a lot of people there. But two

430
00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.839
years after the depopulation order, people were still in New

431
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.559
Gatun living there, and again to encourage them to leave,

432
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.839
the ICC shut down the train that ran from Goloon

433
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:38.200
City to Gatun again to like now they have no

434
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.799
way of getting to their jobs or whatever, disconnecting them

435
00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:45.480
from everything. Yeah, and that was in around January nineteen sixteen.

436
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:50.480
So then around June nineteen sixteen, ICC officials tore down

437
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:55.119
the homes of West Indian employees who were considered Silver

438
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:58.240
Row employees and would soon be laid off. So that

439
00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:01.799
was another thing too that this book doesn't really get into.

440
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:04.519
But I listened to another podcast and there's another book

441
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:06.359
that I want to read about it. I think I

442
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:08.559
saw you add it to your TV armed. Yeah, it's

443
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:12.480
more about the workers of the canal, but you know,

444
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.359
after the canal was done being built, they were going

445
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:19.359
to lead. They weren't going to need everybody anymore, so

446
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:22.079
they were trying to force these people to leave, so

447
00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:27.039
they destroyed their homes and eventually the town was depopulated,

448
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.799
and then residents of a smaller town Nimon, had to

449
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:35.920
relocate twice in four years. Oh my god. The town residents,

450
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.759
also known as nimon Neto's even sought the help from

451
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:42.000
Panama's a National Assembly. They were afraid of having to

452
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:44.920
relocate again and losing their homes for the third time,

453
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.200
so they wrote a letter petitioning for help from the Assembly,

454
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.960
and in their letter they wrote, quote, Americans take pleasure

455
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:55.119
in harassing us and in destroying our homes every time

456
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:58.000
we build a town. No, because really, what the fuck

457
00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:00.920
are they doing? Yeah, like it has to be fun

458
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:04.480
for them. They also accused the Panamanian government of being

459
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:06.759
too generous with the United States because they're like, we

460
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.680
wouldn't be losing our homes again if y'all, you know,

461
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:11.480
weren't playing so nice with them. If they it's like

462
00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:14.559
they wanted it too, Yeah, in some way, because they're

463
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:18.799
not signing up for them. Yeah, the Limonettos didn't end

464
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.680
up having to relocate a third time, but they were

465
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.200
still fighting with the ICC because when the Zone government

466
00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:29.440
was building their houses, they were building the houses with

467
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:32.880
the ceilings too low, and they made their houses too hot.

468
00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:36.200
Instead of listening to people who have lived in this

469
00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:39.799
area forever and who would know about the climate, they

470
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:44.599
didn't listen to them, and so the Limonettos were stuck

471
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:50.000
living in poorly constructed houses and they previously had well

472
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:53.519
constructed and they were also too far from the river.

473
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:55.640
And I didn't write too much about it, but they

474
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.480
were fighting with them about locating to another area where

475
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:02.000
they would still how river access, and they ended up

476
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:05.720
not being able to get that. Yeah. Wow. The people

477
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:09.960
of Chagres also lost the river, losing their ties to

478
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.359
a long history of international trade as merchants. The chig

479
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.559
Danios were depopulated because the US said it needed the

480
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:20.559
lands on the mouth of the river for the defense

481
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:24.839
and protection of the canal, so military basis right. There

482
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:28.240
are only a few documents in existence that demonstrate how

483
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:31.400
chick Danios felt losing their homes. And in one letter,

484
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.720
a man who was described as like a peasant wrote,

485
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:38.440
today the American government demands that we leave this place

486
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:42.240
for a place so distant, abandoning what has caused so

487
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:45.279
much sweat work and hardship. And again, these are people

488
00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:47.680
that built their homes and have cultivated the lands, and

489
00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:50.599
you know what I mean, Like yeah, yeah, and they're

490
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:55.039
being forestyle. So that ugh for to build for the

491
00:31:55.119 --> 00:32:01.359
US to build military bases for imperialism. Yeah. Basically, Over time,

492
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:04.000
the myth that the zone towns were depopulated because of

493
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.720
flooding caused by the creation of Lake Gatun was propagated.

494
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:11.480
This myth became even more popular with the novel lost

495
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:16.640
towns by heel blast. The Hata, which was about Panemanians

496
00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:18.960
being forced out of it was a fictional novel. One.

497
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:22.039
It was about Panamanians being forced out of their homes

498
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:24.839
by the creation of Lake Gatoon. And in the novel,

499
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:28.720
the lake slowly floods the land while heartless Canal police

500
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:31.799
force while they forced the Panamanians out of their homes.

501
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:34.599
But that's not what happened. And that's not what happened. Yeah. No,

502
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:38.519
Although this was a fiction novel, academic writing and lore

503
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.880
have connected the flooding with the population because it sounds better,

504
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:49.400
it sounds nicer, exactly, Yes, And that was my next point. Okay, yeah,

505
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:54.200
and that's right. That point is correct and erased. The

506
00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:56.519
book that I read most of my source for all

507
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:02.000
of this, Medisan Naxo emphasizes the importance of remembering that

508
00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:08.119
technological and economic decisions are based on social priorities, on

509
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.079
what a society considers to be worth the price of saving,

510
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:15.160
and what it considers non essential. And basically, the US

511
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:18.440
decided that all of these Panamanians were non essential, you know.

512
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:22.519
And preserving the history of the depopulated towns was made

513
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:27.279
even more impossible because Canal Zone media rewrote history as

514
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:32.240
it was happening. Instead of reporting the depopulation process accurately,

515
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:36.880
they called the displaced Pandemanian squatters, writing about yeah, and

516
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:39.960
so they would write articles about squatters being moved from

517
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:43.559
one area to the other. But these, again, we're not squatters.

518
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:47.559
These were displaced populations that were forced to rebuild their

519
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:52.079
lives in different locations. And then some were asked to

520
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:56.759
move again and again. Right, oh my god. But again

521
00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.039
if it's their narrative, so of course they're going to

522
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:01.920
refort is it to make them seem like the better

523
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:07.920
person group? After the depopulation was completed, the ICC started

524
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:11.320
to build the new permanent towns. These towns were fully segregated,

525
00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:14.760
with specific towns like Balboa for white US workers and

526
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.639
separate towns. Oh shit, I think I meant to write

527
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:21.039
New Balboa, because then I wrote Boa. Okay, one of

528
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.440
them is New Balboa, and the words a different towns,

529
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:27.920
but I wrote blah blah twice. But point being that

530
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:32.239
there was specific towns for white US workers and separate

531
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:38.440
towns for black with Indian workers. Wow. And before this,

532
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:42.480
the towns, the zone towns were segregated, but it was

533
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:45.920
like certain neighborhoods were black, certain neighborhoods were white, and

534
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:49.480
now it's a whole like specific black towns and white towns.

535
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:52.599
In the new towns, the US government provided all food

536
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:56.599
and all forms of entertainment, and they were alcohol and

537
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:03.079
gambling and cabaret free. So boring, lame. The ICC sought

538
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:07.599
to reform, modernized, modernized, and police the black workers who

539
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:11.599
lived in Naba, Oh. The town was La Bocay, Okay,

540
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.119
and they wrote about expelling anyone who would not conform

541
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:18.920
to their standards. I just the audacity to do this

542
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:22.639
in like a whole different country that's not yours, right,

543
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:27.199
is insane, But nig again, not surprising. Mm hmm. All

544
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:32.239
Canal Zone, how do you say that? Commissaries, no commissary commissaries. Yeah,

545
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:35.480
All Canal Zone commissaries were run by the Panama Canal

546
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:39.519
Company and all housing was rented from them. White US

547
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:42.159
Zone residents never had to leave the zone. They had

548
00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:46.159
their own US run schools, police courts, with the US

549
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:50.119
flag flown at schools and most public buildings. While the

550
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:53.639
ICC was creating white and black towns all over the zone,

551
00:35:54.039 --> 00:35:58.440
the Panamanian government created the new neighborhood of La Exposition,

552
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:02.880
along with the new high school, the Instituto National, which

553
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:07.519
served as a counterpart to Balbois High School. The Balbois

554
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:11.239
High School served as a symbol of the US ability

555
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:16.119
to modernize a tropical Banama, while the Instituto National was

556
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:21.119
a symbol of Banama's ability to manage its own modernity. Eventually,

557
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:24.559
both of the high schools came to symbolize Banama's struggle

558
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:28.079
to recover the canal and the US opposition during the

559
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:32.719
fifties and the sixties. In nineteen fifty nine, Aquilino Boyd,

560
00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:37.239
who was the former Panamanian Foreign Minister, led protests in

561
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:41.079
which Banama's flag was planted in the Canal zone. I

562
00:36:41.239 --> 00:36:46.400
love it and several protesters were then beat by Canal

563
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:54.079
zone police and US soldiers of course. Yeah. These protests

564
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:59.280
led to Eisenhower beginning discussions with the Panamanian government about

565
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:03.039
these kind of issues and as a result, and these

566
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:08.000
continued over to the Kennity administration. But eventually it was

567
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:14.119
agreed to that Banama's flag would fly over one specific

568
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:17.079
site in the zone, which is crazy because this is

569
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:21.559
Panama exactly, Yeah, not the United States. Yeah, And so yeah,

570
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:24.639
it was under Eisenhower where it was agreed that Banama's

571
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.239
flag would fly over one specific site in the zone.

572
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:31.519
And then issues like this continued happening into the Kennity administration.

573
00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:35.079
And then in nineteen sixty two, during the opening of

574
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:38.599
the Thatcher Ferry Bridge in the Canal Zone, which was

575
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:42.039
named after a Kentucky congressman. And I'm like, how are

576
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.119
you going to name something in another country over a

577
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:50.119
Kentucky congressman, of all places, a Lisa another more important state. Yeah,

578
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:54.760
So during this opening of this bridge, Panmanium protesters disrupted

579
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:59.239
the opening ceremonies, demanding the bridge be renamed to the

580
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:01.679
Bridge of the America, which honestly is a better name,

581
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:07.239
right because like this is connecting the Americas exactly, America,

582
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:12.559
South America, Socral America. Literally makes so much sense. Protesters

583
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.920
chanted slogans while some climbed the bridge structures to hang

584
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:19.719
banners and remove the US name signs. Oh love it.

585
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:24.559
They also rushed the speaker's podium, causing everyone to flee.

586
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:31.199
Oh good, run, bitch. And then on January tenth, nineteen

587
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:35.400
sixty three, Kennedy agreed to fly Banama's flag alongside the

588
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:38.760
US flag at non military sites within the Canal Zone

589
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.079
and White US Zone residents were pissed off at this.

590
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:46.519
I did fuck them, Okay, this is not your country.

591
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:51.480
This is insane behavior. So they were pissed and one

592
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:55.719
of them even sued, but Kennedy's executive order was upheld

593
00:38:55.800 --> 00:39:03.000
by these zones Federal District Court good in December oh.

594
00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:07.920
In December nineteen sixty three, Canal Zone Governor Robert Fleming

595
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:12.719
Junior issued a decree limiting the effect of Kennedy's executive order,

596
00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:16.199
basically seeing the US flag would no longer be flown

597
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:19.840
at schools or other locations, so then the Panamanian flag

598
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:23.639
would also not be flown. No one gets flags now. Yeah. Basically,

599
00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:26.440
it's like when your kids are fighting over a cookie

600
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:29.519
and you're like, all right, I'm eating the cookie. Yes, yeah,

601
00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:33.000
but that's what it's giving. Yeah yeah, but why. US

602
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:36.679
Zone residents were still not happy, and they defied this decree.

603
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:42.559
Oh my god, I hate them, And so they were

604
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:45.679
flying the US flag at several buildings, including the zones,

605
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:50.000
junior college, and various high schools. One Zone high schooler

606
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.280
who led the flag raising at I guess I should

607
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:56.159
saying in English, because this is a zone town Crystobal High,

608
00:39:56.559 --> 00:39:59.360
not to the wee. Yeah, you have to be such

609
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:01.880
a dumb bit to be like the manning to fly

610
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:04.000
your flag and a country that's not the I totally hear

611
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:09.000
what she said. Okay, we want just the American flag flying.

612
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:12.719
It proves our sovereignty. Go back to your country for

613
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:15.880
your fucking sovereignty. You know what. This is why I

614
00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:18.679
have no problem with burning the US flag out protests.

615
00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:22.400
Oh god, oh yes, there's just one more sentence. The

616
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.480
next step, if they have their way, will be just

617
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:33.079
to fly the Panamanian flag in Panama. Yes, yes, I'm foreign. Yeah,

618
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:40.320
sends spends put for real. Mm hmm. Okay, so this

619
00:40:41.639 --> 00:40:44.199
we're gonna add something else. What's next? To find the

620
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:50.519
Panamanian flag and Panama? Right? Oh? Dare they? And this

621
00:40:50.599 --> 00:40:54.719
brings us to January ninth, nineteen sixty four. And on

622
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:57.679
this day, the governor, not realizing I guess all the

623
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:02.119
tension about the fire and the flags, he left for

624
00:41:02.199 --> 00:41:05.920
some business in Washington, leaving the lieutenant governor in charge,

625
00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:08.280
and things really got out of control a little bit.

626
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:11.800
So that's why so things got a little wild, how

627
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.880
and governor was in Washington. As a response to the

628
00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:18.679
US flag being raised, about two hundred Panamanian students from

629
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:22.920
the Instituto National these rivalry. This was a pride rivalry

630
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:26.360
high high school. Yes, well like in Panama, when they're

631
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:29.400
trying to take away you, you being Panama, of course

632
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:33.000
you're going to be like full of pride. Yeah. So

633
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:36.480
as a response, students from this high school, about two

634
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:41.280
hundred of them, led by seventeen year old Guillermo Gevarapas,

635
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:44.159
marched to Balboa High School to raise the Panama flag

636
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:48.559
as was the right per Kennedy's executive order. Right. They

637
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.599
were carrying the Panamanian flag from their school, which was

638
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:54.880
a symbolic move because in nineteen forty seven, students from

639
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:59.400
the Instituto National had carried that flag during the demonstrations

640
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:04.239
demanding the withdrawal of US military basis chills, I have chills.

641
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:08.480
The students were also carrying a sign proclaiming Banama sovereignty.

642
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:11.880
In the Canal Zone, the Panamanian students were met by

643
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:16.119
Canal Zone cops and a crowd of US Zone students

644
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:20.280
and adults. A half dozen group of Panamanian students were

645
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.599
allowed to approach the flag pole, but were then surrounded

646
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:27.400
by a swarm of Zone cops and residents who were

647
00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:31.800
singing the Star Spangled banner. They're so fucking dumb. Get

648
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:34.679
the fuck out of here. You're not in the United States.

649
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.840
You're not go back to your country. Are you serious?

650
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:42.719
Right now? Oh? My god? And so then these group

651
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.039
of twelve students were forced to retreat because they were

652
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:50.119
being swarmed right and during the scuffle, the Panyminium flag

653
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:56.119
was torn. Ah again, Burn more US flags please. The

654
00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:59.760
police captain denied any of the Zone residents being at

655
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:02.519
fall for ripping the flag, but one of the Panaminian

656
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:05.960
students said they started shoving us and trying to wrestle

657
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:08.800
the flag from us, all the while insulting us. A

658
00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:12.320
policeman wielded his club, which ripped the flag. The captain

659
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:14.400
tried to take us where the others were sold the

660
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.719
other group of students. On the way through the mob,

661
00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:21.800
many hands pulled and tore our flag. I believe him, no,

662
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:25.760
one hundred percent. Can you just imagine those little, like greedy,

663
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:31.719
nasty hands just reaching little grubby fingers. I'm gonna finish

664
00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:36.960
this prog Okay, no shade to white people, just these

665
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:41.800
white people, these specifics in Panama. Yes. Yeah, as a

666
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:44.880
smaller group of Panamanian students were joined by the larger

667
00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:47.960
group of Penamedian students. They were beaten by police and

668
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:52.519
retreated to the Canal Zone Administration building, where they tried

669
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:55.559
to lower the US flag but were stopped by Canal police.

670
00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:59.000
But the Panamainan students kept their protests going, and so

671
00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:01.760
they but this week they were pissed and they yeah,

672
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:07.599
sorry for so oh good again more rock throwing, more molodovs.

673
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:10.199
They did do that later, So they were throwing rocks

674
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:14.280
at the building and cars, and they were like they

675
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:17.039
kept retreating now out of the Canal Zone and into

676
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:20.000
actual Panama. I mean, but mind you, this was Panama.

677
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:25.559
But right, this separation exists because that's how they made it. Yeah,

678
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:27.800
And so they were being chased by the police at

679
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:29.639
this point. So they were rolling trash cans down the

680
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:31.960
street to obstruct the police cars that were chasing them,

681
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:35.639
and they were retreating into Panama City. Were spread about

682
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:39.440
the protests and more Panyminiums joined, storming the zone and

683
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:44.320
planning Penminium flags. This new group of protesters were tear

684
00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:47.880
gasts and in response to them, threw rocks at the cops,

685
00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:53.079
who then opened fired on the group. Oh my god. Okay,

686
00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:58.480
as saniel I saw Mena who was twenty was shot

687
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:01.199
in the back and died within a couple of minutes,

688
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:03.800
and he was the first one who died and became

689
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.000
the first of Banama's martyrs. Is this the day of

690
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:11.599
the martyrs? Yes, this day became the day of the martyrs?

691
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.320
Oh my god? How many are there? About twenty? Are

692
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:20.599
you fucking serious? Yeah? Oh my god. Witnesses said that

693
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:23.800
Assanio was not actually part of the protests, that he

694
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:25.800
was on his way to the movies and he came

695
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:30.559
upon like the fighting and then at this point the

696
00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:34.480
I think they had already opened fire and he was

697
00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:40.400
helping an injured demonstrator and when he was shot, wow, Understandably,

698
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:43.719
the protesters became angry. So things just escalated from there

699
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:46.760
and they started to burn cars that had Canal Zone

700
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:50.199
license plates, as well as sending fires to several buildings

701
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:54.400
and railroad cars in the canal zone. The police opened

702
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:59.960
fire again, and Paneminians say the US Zone residents also

703
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:03.719
open fire on them, but this is disputed. Bet I

704
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:06.960
believe them. I know one hundred percent. I will never

705
00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:09.719
ever ever take the word of the US police in

706
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:14.320
another country. No militarid of the country. No, no, not

707
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:16.639
to mention they lie. They lie all the time about

708
00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:20.440
this shit. Yeah. US authorities asked for help from the

709
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:24.760
Guard Nacional to call the protests, but they declined to

710
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:28.079
help because back in nineteen fifty nine they got involved

711
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:31.960
in similar in calling similar protests, and they were criticized

712
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:34.519
for siding with the US. So they're like, nah, leave

713
00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:36.320
us out of this now. You know what they should

714
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:39.760
have done. They should have joined the process, which obviously

715
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:43.280
they can't like do, but like, really, I mean, in

716
00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:47.559
front of the US District Corps, Panamanian protesters tore down

717
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:51.199
a section of the fence that ran from Panama City

718
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:54.440
to Barbois. This is the fence that separated Panama from

719
00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:57.000
the rest of the zone, and the fence was known

720
00:46:57.039 --> 00:47:00.000
as Defence of Shame, and they tore down part of it.

721
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:03.639
Tear down the wall. Why isn't this as symbolic as

722
00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:06.599
a tearing of the Berlin Wall, as my wife, Because

723
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:11.880
the US is villain in this story, that's why. Yeah.

724
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:14.679
The protesters also stormed the home of the U S

725
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:19.119
District Judge Guthrie Krow, and then the police responded with

726
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:24.719
tear gas and then again by opening fire. People from Elchurillo,

727
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:29.880
a primarily black neighborhood. Yeah, and we talked about this

728
00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:34.840
before in the Manuel Noriega episode about the US invasion

729
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:38.599
Young invasion of Banama. So people from Elchurillo joined the

730
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:41.519
protests and they were met by law enforcement with tear

731
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:45.519
gas and gunfire. So this isn't the first time Elillo

732
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:49.800
has been terrorized by US farll no, no, no, yeah,

733
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:53.480
like this here they were open fire and then doing

734
00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:56.320
the invasion of that happened later. Yeah. Right, I'm just

735
00:47:56.360 --> 00:47:58.480
saying like there's like, yes, more than one, because I

736
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:01.400
I thought that was the only time that like this

737
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:05.199
neighborhood would have been like attacked. But no, and I'm

738
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:08.320
not surprised. Yeah. In mind you the only reason there

739
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:10.280
it was neighborhood in Tritio was because they it was

740
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:14.559
one of the displaced populations. I hadn't even like made

741
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:17.159
that connection right now that you said it, that this

742
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:20.320
whole neighborhood exists because of the displacement of the other

743
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:25.760
towns during the Panama Canal Zone. Yeah. Wow. By eight pm,

744
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:30.239
Canal Zone police were overwhelmed as about eighty officers faced

745
00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:36.519
and least five thousand protesters. Wow. That's that grew? Oh

746
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:39.760
my god. So then the army was deployed around eight

747
00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:44.480
thirty five pm, the US Army, yes, yes, okay at

748
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:46.559
this point because the National Guard refused to help them,

749
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:50.599
right okay. At this point, protesters had their own guns,

750
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.000
son personally owned, and others obtained after breaking into the

751
00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:57.679
American gun chop in the zone. Good. And so then

752
00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:02.039
they basically had like an armed conflict between the protesters

753
00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:05.440
and the And I mean they're being fired at enforcement. Like,

754
00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:07.719
what did you say? I said, they're being fired at.

755
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:11.320
I'm the right to defend themselves. I mean the only

756
00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:13.599
reason they picked up the guns and brought out their

757
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:15.960
own guns was because they were being shot at. Yeah.

758
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:20.880
US military personnel and their families fled their homes and

759
00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:23.960
other US citizens thaught refuge in the Canal Zone, and

760
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:26.880
then the Guardian and Nasunal finally stepped into help, but

761
00:49:26.920 --> 00:49:32.239
mainly to protect businesses from being looted. Several bystanders were

762
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:36.719
shot and killed, mostly most likely by US gunfire. As

763
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:41.159
the US you know, Canal Zone and military. They were

764
00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:44.719
the only ones to type powered rifles, and so you

765
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:48.519
could prove right, like right, No, Peneminians did not have

766
00:49:48.559 --> 00:49:52.079
these kind of guns. Yeah. One of the bystanders was

767
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:57.280
an eleven year old girl named Dorosa le Landecho, and

768
00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:00.519
she was standing on the balcony of her family's as

769
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:03.119
the fighting was happening, and she just got hit by

770
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:08.440
a stray bullet. The fighting continued for three days. About

771
00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:12.039
twenty two Panamanians and four US soldiers were killed and

772
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:17.599
hundreds were injured. Tragically, one of those lost lives included

773
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:23.719
a six month old baby girl named Oh Marisa. I know,

774
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.519
it's said, Oh my god. The baby's name was Marisa

775
00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:33.599
Avila a la Vara, and she was asphixated by tear gas.

776
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:37.039
I keep saying terror, sorry, tear gas. Yeah, oh my god.

777
00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.280
And although they were the only ones dispensing tear gas,

778
00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:44.360
the US denied any fault in Marita's death. Are you

779
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:49.119
fucking serious? Yeah? Oh my god. Some say that at

780
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:53.159
least three hundred were injured, but efficiently, only about one

781
00:50:53.239 --> 00:50:56.920
hundred injuries were recorded at hospitals. It's like we say

782
00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:00.639
in all these episodes, it's always the higher number. Also,

783
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:04.840
like a lot of panamineons didn't seek medical help because

784
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:07.920
they were afraid of being fired from their jobs, right,

785
00:51:08.199 --> 00:51:13.199
which were like Panama Canal Zone areas and companies. Yeah

786
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:15.400
you know so, yeah, it was mostactly the higher number.

787
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:19.400
And January ninth is now commemorated in Panama as a

788
00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:23.400
national day of mourning and is known as the de

789
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:28.000
Martidez or Martyr's Day. After the fighting, LBJ ordered that

790
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:30.760
both flags would fly in front of all canal schools,

791
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:33.519
and the governor said anyone who was in disagreement with

792
00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:36.480
that policy would be deported from the zone. Like this

793
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:39.119
is how you this is how you deal with basically,

794
00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:41.960
like what would you call these people? It's it's ranking

795
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:48.000
for me the vibes of the J six people. Oh yeah.

796
00:51:48.039 --> 00:51:52.920
And also like the lack of dealing with any of

797
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:55.360
it really, like as far as Trump, you know what

798
00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:58.599
I mean? Yeah, if it had been dealt with swiftly,

799
00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:00.559
would be here. Now. I don't know, Oh, I don't know.

800
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:02.519
I don't think so think so, I don't think so

801
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:05.079
and so like here now the governor is like, okay,

802
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:08.639
anyone who has an issue with both flags is going

803
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:16.239
to be departed, Like, okay, yeah, the OAS. We've talked

804
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:18.159
about them before and I forgot to write down their

805
00:52:18.199 --> 00:52:22.039
actual name. Yeah, I think of something I don't remember.

806
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:27.360
But anyway, the OS looked into the matter and investigated

807
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:30.719
whether the US were the aggressors, and although they didn't

808
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:33.639
make a decision about that, they did find that the

809
00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:39.199
US used unnecessary force. Sorry, the Organization American something right,

810
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:43.400
the Americans Organization of American States, American States. Okay, it's

811
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:48.280
basically like a coalition of organization of like all like right,

812
00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:52.840
the US, Central America, and the Americas. Yeah, the Americas,

813
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:58.760
but usually like on the American side of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

814
00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:01.679
So they did find the the US used unnecessary force.

815
00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:04.119
Oh good, Okay, I almost thought you were going to

816
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:06.239
say that they were like, no, the US didn't do

817
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:10.880
anything wrong. They did say that the that was unnecessary force,

818
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:16.679
but that it was not excessive in basically trying to

819
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:20.559
shut down the riots and stuff. Okay, so but they

820
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:23.360
said it was unnecessary force, like maybe they didn't have

821
00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:25.559
to open fire all those times, maybe they didn't have

822
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:29.719
to dispense tear gas in neighborhoods like where that was

823
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:34.480
killed baby babies, yeah. Yeah. After these events, public opinion

824
00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:38.239
forced Panama to break diplomatic ties with the US and

825
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:42.159
they basically broke ties for four months, and in order

826
00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:46.920
to re establish relations, negotiations started over the Panama Canal.

827
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:49.320
And so there were several talks over the years. And

828
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:51.519
this is highly highly condensed now because you know, we

829
00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:54.719
need to end up that way. We've been recording now

830
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:58.920
for over an hour and a half. So there were

831
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:01.920
several talks over the years. Again, a lot more can

832
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:03.559
be said about this. For the sake of time, we're

833
00:54:03.559 --> 00:54:07.960
not getting into it. But the zone became Panamanian after

834
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:11.960
the signing of the nineteen seventy seven Torrijos Carter Panama

835
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:14.960
Canal Treaty, with the process of the Panama Canal transitioning

836
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:17.840
to Panamanian control in nineteen seventy nine and ending in

837
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.840
two thousand when the last canal structures and military bases

838
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:26.519
were transferred to Panama. And like this is why you know,

839
00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:28.639
people are like, oh, you don't need violence, But this

840
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:31.280
would not have happened if it wasn't for the Day

841
00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:35.079
of the Martyrs. Yeah, absolutely, that day would not have happened.

842
00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:37.800
Things would have things would have been the same, yeah,

843
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:40.960
until something like the Day of Martyrs happened. That's what

844
00:54:41.079 --> 00:54:44.920
it takes. For legal reasons. We're not calling for violence,

845
00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:48.480
but you know, no, you know, of course, of course,

846
00:54:48.639 --> 00:54:53.079
of course, but fuck I slumped kidding no, But this

847
00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:56.320
is why again when and I've been meeting to make

848
00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:58.039
a video about this, and I just haven't because I'm like,

849
00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:02.519
I'm not ready for this. But when people here in

850
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:06.360
the US in these times were in Fereragary of twenty

851
00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:10.199
twenty five, there's been multiple protests about deportations, right, and

852
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:13.800
at these protests there have been people burning you as flags.

853
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:15.599
I have never had a problem with it. I do

854
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:17.840
not give up buck In fact, burn more flags. That's

855
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:21.039
what I have in sane. If I had a flag

856
00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:23.320
to burn, I would do it too. And I say

857
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:26.639
this as like and this doesn't even mean anything, but

858
00:55:26.679 --> 00:55:29.400
people keep saying as a veteran, I'm so offended, I

859
00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:32.320
don't care. I don't care. As a veteran, I don't care.

860
00:55:32.679 --> 00:55:37.079
But this is why, as people in the Latin American diaspora,

861
00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:41.920
you should not care either, Because the United States in

862
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:47.440
other people's countries killed people for find their own flag.

863
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:50.719
We talked about this in the Ponte massacre in Puerto Rico,

864
00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:54.239
that's right, which has been so it was so horrible.

865
00:55:54.679 --> 00:55:56.880
Go back if you're new and this is your first

866
00:55:56.920 --> 00:55:59.840
episode and you need to know what I'm talking about.

867
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:04.960
That was a horrible massacre and people literally died holding

868
00:56:04.960 --> 00:56:08.480
the Puerto Rican flag like by in the hands of

869
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:11.280
the United States. And this too. I mean I only

870
00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:15.360
talked about what three deaths, but twenty two Pandemanians died.

871
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:19.159
There's a reason it's a day of mourning. Yep, yep.

872
00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:23.719
And this is why people need to think about these things,

873
00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:26.519
because this isn't the only things. This isn't the only

874
00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:29.920
time this has happened. But like, think about those these

875
00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:32.880
two at least the Ponta massacre and this day, now

876
00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:35.039
that you know about it, if you listen to this episode,

877
00:56:35.719 --> 00:56:39.519
when you hear like, oh, you need to be proper,

878
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:42.280
you need to be not that ghetto. You need to

879
00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:46.199
be respectful, you need to never you need to respect

880
00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:50.559
the flag, like why why when this country has gone

881
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:53.760
and killed people and other countries for flying their own flags. Yeah,

882
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:57.480
I'm sorry, but no, I'm sorry but no, no, But

883
00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:01.199
like I said, this Panama, we didn't have control of

884
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:03.800
the Panama Canals. And if this day hadn't happened, Yeah,

885
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:07.039
and it's terrible, and it's it's terrible that it had

886
00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:09.840
that it happened. It didn't have to. But because the

887
00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:13.639
United States doesn't care, they don't care until something like

888
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:16.760
this happens. Mm hmmm. And that's all I have to

889
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:19.960
say about it. And yeah, I didn't have time to

890
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.199
write more thoughts about this, but like, the reason I

891
00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:24.320
wanted to look up more about the Panama Canal was

892
00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:29.400
because that was a bullshit. Even before the I think

893
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:32.880
before he was even the inauguration stuff, Trump was talking about, oh,

894
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:34.880
we need to take back the Panama Canal and blah

895
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:41.440
blah blah, and no, simply no, leave it alone. This

896
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:44.960
has already been fought for. Panama has already said they

897
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:47.840
will defend their right to the canal because it is

898
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:51.159
their right. And so yeah, I mean that was what

899
00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:53.840
inspired me and you know, to look more into this,

900
00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:59.559
and it's just it's just bullshit that we are here now,

901
00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:03.679
you know. Yeah, going back in time in so many

902
00:58:03.679 --> 00:58:08.519
ways and expressing a desire to reagin control of the

903
00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:15.119
pandemic analogy is one of those ways that we are regressing. Yeah. Yeah, Wow,

904
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:18.639
this has been a long journey and I'm just so

905
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:20.519
glad I know about this day now because then I

906
00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:23.280
can justify even more defending the right to burn the

907
00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:26.719
us fun that sounds about. It's about Banama and their

908
00:58:26.840 --> 00:58:31.360
right to their land and you know, yeah, and to

909
00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:39.480
fight against the periallysm you know. Yeah. Yeah, thank you

910
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:41.199
for all your research and your hard work on this,

911
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:43.000
even though you were it was so hard for me.

912
00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:46.360
It was it was I'm telling you, it's because I

913
00:58:46.400 --> 00:58:48.440
literally I get obsessed and I'm like trying to write

914
00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:51.559
everything one day and I'm like, this is not humanly possible. Yeah,

915
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:53.840
but that's why in my parts, whenever they happen, they're

916
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:58.519
able to come out weekly. Yeah, she hypercad problems. Yeah,

917
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:00.079
I have problems. It's the sign I probably don' on

918
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:05.320
AVD No, because you procrastinated. Actually, you're right, yeah, because

919
00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:08.039
it's so dauntine that I was like wanting to give

920
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:10.719
up and I'm like, no, I read it, I highlighted,

921
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:13.280
I'm like ready to take notes, and you were literally

922
00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:15.400
waiting to the last minute possible to write the note.

923
00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:19.480
I was I was, yeah, wow, like today you finished them. Yeah,

924
00:59:19.480 --> 00:59:24.440
I did. And we're recording. Yeah, oh my god, Yeah,

925
00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:28.679
we're going to get it together one day. Yeah. But no, seriously,

926
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:32.559
I'm thankful that you did do all this research because

927
00:59:32.840 --> 00:59:35.760
that was a lot of information and still not everything

928
00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:37.840
there is to learn about it. And you know, and yeah,

929
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:40.519
that's another thing that I think I've seen like a

930
00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:43.639
lot of posts and like stuff like saying like the

931
00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:46.960
message like everyone has a role to play, like in

932
00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:50.760
fighting against oppression, right, And one of those things is

933
00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:53.360
truth telling, right. And I feel like that's kind of

934
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.079
what we do here, you know what I mean, Like, yeah,

935
00:59:56.199 --> 01:00:00.079
there's so much bullshit spread around how Yeah, no, I

936
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:03.199
was gonna say. I'm like, like, I don't think we

937
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:04.840
well maybe we have said it a bunch of times,

938
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:07.079
but it's so it means so much when someone has

939
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:11.360
messaged us and said this podcast like radicalized maybe because

940
01:00:11.360 --> 01:00:15.119
I didn't know about these things that I mean, it

941
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:17.079
means a lot. And you know there's the other end

942
01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:21.440
of that of people like oh they're obviously one sited

943
01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:24.320
and they're like misrepresenting. It's like that's my thing. I'm like,

944
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:28.519
we have already learned all the US version of things,

945
01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:33.159
which is also biased and propaganda, everything we learn, you

946
01:00:33.199 --> 01:00:37.119
know what I mean? Yeah, Like so much has been

947
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:40.760
omitted that has been at the fault of the United States.

948
01:00:41.320 --> 01:00:43.920
And so this is just the other side of that coin,

949
01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:47.039
which is the reality that people don't want to see

950
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:49.760
because they don't want to admit that the United States

951
01:00:50.119 --> 01:00:54.880
has yeah faults. Yeah, even this quote unquote immigration crisis.

952
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:56.960
Who is our fault? The United States? Like you don't

953
01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:59.760
want immigrants, you don't want for refugees, and don't create them.

954
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:02.039
But too late, you already did. You don't fucked around

955
01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:04.280
the whole fucking world. And we are where we are,

956
01:01:05.320 --> 01:01:09.079
true that and so I will not shut up and

957
01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:14.119
so yeah, we will keep telling the truth here. Yeah,

958
01:01:14.159 --> 01:01:17.400
and it is what it is, you know. Yeah. I

959
01:01:17.400 --> 01:01:20.400
also shout out to everyone that's found us through threads

960
01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:24.159
recently because it's been popping off. I'd like three or

961
01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:28.960
four yeah, mini viral posts over there, so and a

962
01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:33.760
few comments also on ig which is it's viral for us.

963
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.239
We do get a lot of action there. No, we

964
01:01:36.280 --> 01:01:38.239
do not get a lot of action there. And the

965
01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:41.760
same video I put on TikTok it has done well.

966
01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:44.280
It always but usually these things do well on TikTok

967
01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:48.679
for us, it was about the bath rights. The bath rights,

968
01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:51.639
the video about the bath riots. We have never had

969
01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:56.760
a video real dude, numbers like that and yeah so wild.

970
01:01:57.760 --> 01:02:00.440
So yeah. If you're here from threads or Instagram, welcome.

971
01:02:00.679 --> 01:02:04.559
This is basically what every episode is like. Yeah, we

972
01:02:04.599 --> 01:02:11.239
get mad, we get proud, both of those things usually. Yeah.

973
01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:15.440
So yeah. Also, one more thing. If you join Patreon

974
01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:18.880
right now as a free member, you can follow along

975
01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:22.880
our reading of defectors. We're thinking we made the post

976
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:26.000
that we're starting this random read along because you both

977
01:02:26.039 --> 01:02:29.400
happy to read this book round the same time. Yeah.

978
01:02:29.480 --> 01:02:32.079
I'm halfway through chapter one now, so oh my god,

979
01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:36.480
I finished. I know, I know you finished. I'm thinking

980
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:38.840
what we're going to do is both finish it and

981
01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:40.880
then just put up a link like, hey, join us

982
01:02:40.920 --> 01:02:45.480
on zoom so we can like all discuss this book together. Yeah,

983
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:47.400
that'd be fun. That would be fun. I think that's

984
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:49.639
what we're going to do, because when we do book

985
01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:51.400
club episodes on this book tells it comes out as

986
01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:53.239
an episode here. I don't think we need to do that.

987
01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:55.280
I think we could just all get together and talk

988
01:02:55.280 --> 01:02:57.639
about it, even if it's just being krime and talking

989
01:02:57.639 --> 01:03:00.199
about it. I don't care. We'll be on there. We'll

990
01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:02.800
be on there for sure. Yeah, so yeah, I think

991
01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:04.960
that's what we're gonna do. So if you're interested in that,

992
01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:07.760
you can join as a free member. You'll have access

993
01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:10.840
to that post and that Zoom link. When I finished

994
01:03:10.840 --> 01:03:14.719
the book, we've had a shout out. I think like

995
01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:18.039
three members. I'm like one person already read it. Someone

996
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:19.920
was like, oh, I just got it from the library,

997
01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:21.960
and someone else had just bought it, but I don't

998
01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:25.119
remember who was who was I'm not saying names, but

999
01:03:25.159 --> 01:03:28.280
you know who you are. So yeah, once we finished that,

1000
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:30.960
we can get together on Zoom talk about it because

1001
01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:33.840
that book, there's gonna be a lot to discuss. And

1002
01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:36.119
that's the last thing I was gonna say. And if

1003
01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:39.280
anyone is interested in our episodes where we yap about

1004
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:44.840
I don't know, current events, petty internet drama sometimes yeah,

1005
01:03:45.159 --> 01:03:48.559
sometimes like stuff we're watching, listening to stuff for reading,

1006
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:54.639
then yeah, you can upgrade or yeah, join the paid

1007
01:03:54.679 --> 01:03:58.960
membership of Patreon for those episodes and a one time

1008
01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:02.400
an own stick and I still have Monsanto stickers if

1009
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:07.639
anyone wants them from our Monsanto episodes about hate bigg stickers,

1010
01:04:08.079 --> 01:04:10.480
all the homies, hate Monsanto or all my homies. I

1011
01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:13.960
don't remember what it's yeah, something like that, but yeah, yeah,

1012
01:04:14.159 --> 01:04:15.960
I guess this now brings us to the end of

1013
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:18.480
the episode, right, yes, and so we have ended our

1014
01:04:18.639 --> 01:04:22.480
journey with the Panama Canal. We hope this was one

1015
01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:25.840
less estoria unknown for you. Bye bye,