Feb. 19, 2026

Now I Surrender With Alvaro Engrigue

Now I Surrender With Alvaro Engrigue
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Now I Surrender radically recasts the story of how the West was “won.” In the contested borderlands between Mexico and the United States, a woman flees into the desert after a devastating raid on her dead husband’s ranch. A lieutenant colonel in service to the fledgling Republic, sent in pursuit of cattle rustlers, discovers he’s on the trail of a more dramatic abduction. Decades later, with political ambitions on the line, the American and Mexican militaries try to maneuver Geronimo, the most legendary of Apache warriors, into surrender. In our own day, a family travels through the region in search of a truer version of the past.

Part epic, part alt-Western, Now I Surrender is Álvaro Enrigue’s most expansive and impassioned novel yet. It weaves past and present, myth and history into a searing elegy for a way of life that was an incarnation of true liberty—and an homage to the spark in us that still thrills to its memory.

Preorder the book now, it releases March 3, 2026!

Carmen and Cristina had the opportunity to read Now I Surrender by Alvaro Enrigue and talk with him about his new book. 

If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/

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WEBVTT

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Hi, everyone. This is Kerman and Christina and this is

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Yestodia's Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin American history.

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Sometimes it's horrible and deals with type topics like racism, corruption,

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and genocide, but Bandana, it's also about power, resistance and community. Today.

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Today today we are we're not talking about it, well,

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we kind of are talking about those things because they

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are in the within the context of a historical fiction book.

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We had the chance to the wonderful opportunity to speak

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to Alabalo Andrigue, author of Now I Surrender, which was

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written years ago in Spanish, but the translated version in

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English is coming out March March third, twenty twenty six.

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We got an arc. We got to read it early

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for fun, my first arc, Babi's first arc. It is

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our first arc. Yeah, but yeah, it's coming out March third,

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and I guess we should read the synopsis real quick, right,

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read this anopsis so that the listeners can understand why

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this is of interest to them and why we're talking

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about it. On East Story as a known Yes, okay, So,

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in the contested borderlands between Mexico and the United States,

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a woman flees into the desert after a devastating raid

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on her dead husband's ranch, a lieutenant colonel in service

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to the fledging Republic, sent in pursuit of cattle rustlers,

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discovers he's on the trail of a more dramatic abduction.

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Decades later, the American and Mexican militaries try to maneuver

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Heteronymo or Geronimo, the most legendary of Apache warriors, into surrender.

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In our own day, a family travels through the region

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in search of a truer version of the past. Now

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I surrender is a serene elegy for a way of

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life that was an incarnation of almost unimaginable freedom. Add

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an homage to the spark in us that still thrills

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to its memory. So yeah, I took an epic historical

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fiction about how quote the West was won, as in

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taken from the y Apaches. Yes, and it does not

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like many and we get into it into the interview,

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but it does not absolve Mexigo of its role. Oh no,

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in the same doing the same. So yeah, we had

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the opportunity to talk with Alberto Andenerguin about this and

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just some so you know a little more about Alberdo

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energy game he is a Mexican novelist born in Guerra.

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Oh my god, we don't even talk about that. We

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didn't even talk with him. I can't believe it. Famously,

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that is where our family, as we've said many times,

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too many times, too many times. Yeah, but yes, he

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is a Mexican novelist, essays academic. He's the author of

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six novels, one of which maybe a lot of you

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have already read or are planning to read like us.

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But it's on my TVR. Yeah, and I didn't realize,

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but it has been on my both of our tvrs

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for a long time. Yes, you dreamed of Empires. He

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has taught at the New York University, Princeton University, University

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of Maryland, Columbia University. Oh and obviously award winning author

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and so yeah, we had the chance to speak with

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him about his book and it was amazing. It was

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really yeah, an amazing conversation, a fun conversation, very mexicanly conversation.

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If you will put on your Mexican hat and ears

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hand shirt and to listen to this, we encourage you

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all to check out this book. It was amazing. We

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had a time reading it well, first, before we start,

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we have to say that this it feels like every

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like this book, and also that your other one has

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I didn't realize. But what's the other one now? I dreamed, No, no,

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you dream, Yes, you.

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Dream because it addresses the reader. But it was a

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great idea of Natasha. It was not my idea.

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Ah okay, Yeah, those these were both on our list

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to read because they're like, I don't know, historical fiction,

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especially set in like Mexico and involving like bigger stories

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like of imperialism, colonialism. It feels like these kind of

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books were written for us, and yeah, specifically for us.

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So yeah, this was such a lovely opportunity. I guess

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we had to read it earlier and so very exciting

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and yeah, it just what an amazing, beautiful book.

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Thank you. It's an honor to be in your niche

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you are interested in, and it's what I have been

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interested in the later years is historical process and how

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empires come and go, what the people feels when it

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is happening. I'm under the impression that we are in

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one of those big historical moments which like there is

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like continental political moves that still don't understand unfortunately. Yes, yes,

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history is history, and I don't know. My grandparents went

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through awful wars and after that they have good lives.

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So it's work to say that all humans have all

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human experiences in different degrees. I have a feeling that

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I grew up in a kind of an historical moment,

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like there was not There was a lot going on,

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of course, but everything was predictable, and now it's unpredictable.

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So I see that we share that precupation. That's all

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I wanted to say with a shy when said to

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talk talk too much always, it's a rue we earned.

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So Geronimo and his surrendered our major parts of the book.

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But for I feel like a lot of our listeners

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know Geronimo. But for anyone who's listening who maybe only

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knows Geronimo's name as a figure in US Westerns, can

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you tell us who Geronimo was?

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No? I know it would be so difficult to say.

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I wrote this enormous book, and I don't think that

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it results that nigma. Christina, And I'm sorry I'm escaping

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from from your question, but but but I really can't tell.

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What I can't tell is like a little historical latter

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the historical letter that we have that it's a lot

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because I can begin there. Hroonymo is our contemporary Coroonymo

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is a person that to elevate or see, it's a

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person that was sitting in a fourth car and so

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so it's a very modern character and at the same

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time represents the I don't know the cultural and political

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and social resistance of nations that that that I don't

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know the ecosystems in which we live have told us

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that don't exist anymore. But I really alive, kicking, not

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that the appaccination is just there. You just need to

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drive your car partisona. You're closer and you could arrive

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earlier than I would and and and the same thing

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happens in Mexico. It is the Sapatista movement is se

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my like my living memory. I was an adult when

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the Sapatista Rising began. So so it's not that this

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is a conflict from the nineteenth century, and you don't

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because I produced it in Spanish and anything that that

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could be another good door. You know, Henonymo is this

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this person who is like, let's say, constitutionally Mexican in

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the sense that when he was born. He was born

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in New Mexico, and in that moment, Mexico have already

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considered full right citizenship for anyone that that had been

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born there, and the Constitution of twenty one was very

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clear about the rights of indigenous people. It's a question

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that was asking Mexico very early in history, and that

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was related to our War of Independence. So it's a

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full rights Mexican citizen who doesn't care at all about

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being Mexican. He is actually Ricawa and he's an a

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pageant and that's what he is. And that spent the

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whole arc of his life. First citing the enormous expansion Empire.

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Not when he was born the empire had just despairsed,

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but let's say that his parents had done that. Then

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he fought the Mexican Republic that very early felt uncomfortable

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with the idea of being nations inside the new nation,

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and then the American Army that was like complying with

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this dream of going from coast to coast, not to

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Atlantic to the Pacific. So he was a man that's

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maybe all were wrongdoing as modern nation states. Everything that

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we did wrong, I think was offered by that generation.

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There is no way I can know how it looked

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for them, of course, So in the novel, I just

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tried to like paint a mural of how it was.

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And the chp pagination comes in an out of the story,

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which is not difficult, because we all love Westerns. No, no,

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no matter I went the politicalation, we at the end

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we no matter where we live, no matter where we

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were rise, we were educated by Westerns. Also our teachers

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of course the books we read. But who doesn't love Westerns.

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Yes, stories of the bad guys and good cowboys. And

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that's like when I think workids or when we're in

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like the US school system. The way we learn about

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Hero anymore is like, oh he was like a bad

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I mean people, I think people backend still use the Indian,

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which obviously people are moving away from now. But who

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was being searched for by the US Army. But I

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don't know, like he was legally considered Mexican, Like had

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no idea until reading this book, because here we we

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he's kind of put in the same category as like,

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I don't know, Mexican bandits like are looked at like

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there was a new Misement park we would go to

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as a kids called Knots and in not Verry Farm

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there was a section where it was like wanted and

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then they had like posters them Pancho yeah like and

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they were painted as these terrible and they. I mean,

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everyone has, everyone has going bad, everyone has done bad things.

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They all did bad things, but they're like heroes in Mexico.

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And I think Heronimo to his you know, his people,

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he could be a heroic figure too, right, but like

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here he's bad. He we thought we learned that he

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was bad.

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Well, I think that you can stand in the other

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point of view, because for.

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Me is a hero, yes, and for us too.

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Was fighting for his people everything, yesportant things that comes

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to me. As a Mexican. I believe that the indigenous

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communities must have the property system of indigenous communities must

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be respected, for example, and that was one of the

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ideas of a millionaire Sapata Francisco Villa. I don't know,

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but I am not from northern Mexico and from central Mexico,

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so my total figure is sabatable. But I think that

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we can place it the other way around. That is

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that many British and French and Dutch people that we

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consider pirates in Latin American, particularly in Mexico, are discoverers

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and heroes. In the United States, the bridge that connects

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Staten Islands, I think with Brooklyn, it's named Jovanni H.

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Rassano and Joannive in the United States is the person

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that discovered I don't remember which part of the Hodgson River,

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the connection of the I don't know how you say

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this bocaduna in English. I'm sorry, the mouth of the

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Hodson River connected with the Atlantic. That there is a

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couple of blocks away from here. So in the United States,

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Jovanni Rassano is some sort of Italian hero that discovers

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something and gave us a nation. And in Mexico Giovanni

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Rasano is remembered as one Florine because he was a Florentine,

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as the worst of the pirates, like the most dangerous

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and scary, an infamous person in the world. So it's

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interesting that you began saying, no story is difficult. You know,

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it's always conflictive, and heroes are not always heroes, and

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it's very good that we know those things. But nations

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meets and we deal with them as we can. And

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I think that that I don't know. I don't want

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I would not want them an infancy in which a

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millionaires is not a hero of the people, even when

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I know that he did many things, I don't want

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to like grow up in a simplock.

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I think it's just.

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When we grow up we have to learn to be

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critical in that sense. For me, it was very important

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at this point that you are saying, Christina that one

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day I discovered that Herny was a Mexican citizen. And

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again if if you asked him, he would have laugh

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for ever. And you can see his memoir that is fantastic,

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and the many interviews he gave because he's another character

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that he didn't trust them Americans, but the Mexicans he

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hated with all of his soul, and with very good reasons,

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because the Mexican army have done bury infamous things. Not

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to him because he was a soldier, he was a warrior,

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but to his family. You know, they had heard his

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00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:25.039
family like malon that we would say in Spanish, coated

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to him. So it's natural that there is a troublem

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his relationship with Mexico and nevertheless for the Mexican government.

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He was a Mexican and read.

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The novel, which spanned many years across the US Southwest

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and northern Mexico. From the perspectus of the Apaches, Saddens

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and Mexicans, we can really tell the passion and the

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knowledge behind the words. So can you tell us about

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how you became interested in this time period and about

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the research process for the book.

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It was a very it was a very long process.

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Garmen the bibiliography. I work with things I like. I

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just write a lot of things that that will let

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me read forever, because what I really like is reading.

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I like write, and I love teaching. I like my life.

233
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But but but what I really like is reading. And

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I have been reading about this process of not a

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coup occupation of the West, really the Apache war process

236
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in the US and Mexico for years and years, and

237
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I have been collecting books and making trips and and

238
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seeing imatches and but but I don't know. I remember

239
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that the seed of this book, which doesn't mean absolutely anything,

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because it can happen when you're a child and then

241
00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:58.559
the book becomes However, but the very seed of this

242
00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:08.200
book happened and I was in graduate school. That's like dinosaurs, dinosaurs,

243
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:13.000
years years and I was interested in the process of

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the Apache War, mainly because of the westerns. I suppose

245
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I was always interested in the fear of of Heeronymo,

246
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but in many other in Sittybul too, in many many

247
00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:28.960
other indigenous heroes of the United States. But there was

248
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a reason why it was attracted to Jeronymo. And I

249
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:34.839
am not completely sure. But when I was in graduate school,

250
00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.039
I read a book about the Apache War because I

251
00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:43.039
was doing research for it for other things, for an essay,

252
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and a very important author from chihuahu So I was

253
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reading the about the context in which she he grew up,

254
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.519
and Emilia Pacheco, the great fiction writer and poet that

255
00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.920
was my professor, in that moment told me, you know,

256
00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:01.559
the father of my team, losoos Man. That is this,

257
00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:06.119
this writer about which I was researching, fought in the

258
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Apache Wars, and he was in one of the surrenderings

259
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:15.359
of heroonym because was a living encyclopaedia. But but but

260
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but he was not a library. You know, you could

261
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not extract my breography. He would just say things, and

262
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you have research. I never I never found where he

263
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.640
read that. But but nevertheless, it was in that moment

264
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that I began to every time I saw a biography

265
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of every time I saw the Apache War, and I

266
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was reading for years, and then when I there to

267
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to begin the novel, bit because it's really other. Okay,

268
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.759
here is a malaia, I will crime. But when I

269
00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:54.000
began to work in the novel, I was very lucky

270
00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:58.000
to be like just arriving to the to New York

271
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and being protected by academic institutions, so I could work

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in the Princeton Library more than anything in library in

273
00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:12.559
Colombia that has a great a great collection of not

274
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a documents, of like little books that have the Mexican

275
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perspective of that part that living in the US, as

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I have been doing forever, it's a little bit more

277
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:28.359
difficult to reach now. If I were writing this book

278
00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:30.680
in Mexico, it would be the other way around. But

279
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so I work in libraries. It was a very interesting

280
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:41.880
process that of course I have forgot, no, because the

281
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:44.200
book came out in Spanish a few years ago.

282
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:51.000
Yes, I didn't realize it came out so long ago. Sorry,

283
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.240
I didn't realize it came out in Spanish first, and

284
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.240
like years ago. Yeah, we were looking for interviews and

285
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:05.079
we found one in Spanish about and I was like, oh.

286
00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:10.119
You can really the well in the middle there was

287
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:12.839
this thing that was named Kovid that we tend to

288
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forget because.

289
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:17.200
Yes, of course, yeah, that did happened.

290
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.359
But what happening with the book is that sudden they

291
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.880
had done well and we were working on this one,

292
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and then the pandemic began when we were about to

293
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sit down to work on it, and that I remember

294
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.839
very clearly, or I remember later. You know that there

295
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.039
was an exchange with a lot of except that was

296
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:47.480
then my editor and she was like, the market is

297
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.279
not good with translations this moment. No, you you. I

298
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will do it if you want to do it. But

299
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what And I was like, well, I will trust you.

300
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.559
You are an editor, you know your thing. I know

301
00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:02.400
about writing books, not about publishing books, so I will

302
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.880
rely on whatever is your opinion. But let me ask

303
00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:08.160
and I asked that. I remember clearly a couple of

304
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.599
friends that were just launching books in the moment in

305
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.160
which we were all inside of ware houses, and it

306
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:20.160
was everybody was like, don't do it. They will not

307
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.119
get reviews, there will be no attention because we all

308
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:27.319
focused in other things. So we postpone it. But what

309
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:31.200
is interesting is that we forgot about it when I

310
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:35.359
finished Do the Ream of Empires. I have this very

311
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:39.200
childish relationship with writing. I'm like really excited about the

312
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:43.440
books and the research. It's a very playful thing for me.

313
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:50.119
So when we came out of the bubble of the pandemic,

314
00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:54.119
I had this new book and my agent tasks and

315
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:56.160
I'm like, no, no, no, let's do the new book. And

316
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:58.240
everybody was interested in the new book, and it was

317
00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:02.079
shorter and everything kind of of it. It looks like

318
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:07.000
a good idea, and we forgot completely and then the

319
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:13.559
the chepping lift and my new fantastic editor arrived and

320
00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:15.720
she was like, there is a book of view yours

321
00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:19.240
in my computer and Natasha and I were like, yes, yes,

322
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:26.599
yes there is. When you the books, it looks like

323
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.880
there are sequences and everything looks logical, And the truth

324
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:35.160
is that life is much more complicated than that. That's true,

325
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:38.720
and you adapt to the times that are running.

326
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:42.200
And honestly, it seems like a like a perfect time

327
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.559
for for the book. Benito bole The super Bowl just happened,

328
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.000
and I think people are even more so than ever

329
00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.519
looking for like stories by Latino authors, like he says

330
00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.200
in his song those kids said latinos on but obviously

331
00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.759
tis a song and this book tis soon so and

332
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.799
people are really looking for more, more stories, especially even

333
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:06.240
like translated stories. I feel like in the past three

334
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:08.720
or four years, Carmen and I have also been getting

335
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:13.119
into more translated stories and seeking like seeking them out.

336
00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:15.880
So this was really, it feels like perfect timing for

337
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.200
the book. Yeah, yeah, I feel very timely.

338
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:22.440
Well. I think that that was a taboo in English

339
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.680
and particularly in a like in the American publishing world.

340
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:31.720
People doesn't read translations, and a few years ago a

341
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:37.359
new movement of let's read translations and let's publish translations began,

342
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.960
and I think that what we discovered was the Americans

343
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.599
Americans read translations, and there were much more translations that

344
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.480
we thought that they just don't didn't make it to

345
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.599
the like flashy parts of the bookstores. But there are

346
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:59.680
these excellent collections of translated literature that we're there with

347
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:03.279
with that there were not. So I think that that

348
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.440
that is I just want to say that that connecting

349
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.119
this to the Benita all is just a genius idea,

350
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:17.359
because some somehow it's an issue of visibility. Soe is there, Yes, yes,

351
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:23.920
And it's interesting that Benito be universal absolute figure in

352
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:26.640
the moment in which he goes to the roots, that

353
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:32.000
is with the ar mass photos, both traditions that he's

354
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:37.119
appealing to in that book, having at least centenary for

355
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:41.519
for everybody in Latin America, you know. So, so the

356
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:47.160
all more than an innovation, was like a color of attention. No,

357
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:49.960
there is this genius music here, and there is this

358
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:54.839
genius culture here, and it's for everybody to take because

359
00:24:54.839 --> 00:25:01.720
it's culture, and it's who wasn't done because I enjoy

360
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:06.079
a good story. It's just I'm just moving through cultures.

361
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:11.640
Is Yeah, it's a natural thing, I think. But I

362
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:16.200
am Latin Americans, so we Latin Americans are dieply misticos,

363
00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:21.319
were really believeing in like importing things and changing things

364
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:26.119
and adapting things and giving visibility to things. And it's

365
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:29.799
a different point of view. But I think that the

366
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:33.440
new America, that the US in which we are living,

367
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:39.279
it's opening its size to this enormous diversity, not only

368
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:40.720
interior but exterior.

369
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.880
There's a quote that I loved in the book, and

370
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:55.039
I almost cried because of the targeting of the Latino

371
00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:58.119
Amergran community here in the US. That's you know, it's

372
00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:01.160
going on forever. Bubbyos were now and is worse now.

373
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:04.920
So let me just share the quote really quick for listeners.

374
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:06.640
What's kind of long, so it won't be quick. But

375
00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:11.519
I saw the desert. I saw a chingo of Indians

376
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:14.799
returning to Arizona. Ways and ways of Indians coming from

377
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:17.839
Mexico and beyond, from the jungles down below in the

378
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:21.920
farthest south, big strong Indians crossing the desert to take

379
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:24.640
back what you're about to lose. I saw them speaking

380
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:27.400
their own tongues, Spanish and other languages. And they were

381
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.880
in Brooklyn and Rayleigh and Philadelphia and Atlanta cities in

382
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:32.880
the old part of the country that you may visit

383
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:35.799
after you're taken to Florida. I saw their children in

384
00:26:35.799 --> 00:26:39.000
schools and parks and hospitals, and truly they were Indians,

385
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.359
and almost all of them spoke English. They were beautiful gringos,

386
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.000
the same color as you, and they became army officers

387
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.079
and doctors and senators. I saw this land would become

388
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:50.799
their land to your land. I saw that you would

389
00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:54.720
return through them, and it just felt so timely. Even

390
00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:58.799
though this book was originally written years ago. I don't know.

391
00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:01.119
Can you tell us about the thought process or meaning

392
00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:04.759
behind this quote, because I almost cried. I almost cried

393
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:07.240
right now again, I.

394
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:09.480
Think that I was a much better writer a few

395
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:16.480
years I remember, I didn't remember. I think that the

396
00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:21.519
context is important here. This is said by by an

397
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:26.319
American soldier in the late nineteenth century. He's retiring, he

398
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:30.960
needs an historical character. He saved the life of Heronymo,

399
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:33.359
and he knows that he will be punished for that,

400
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.119
so he's returning to be punished and has this dream.

401
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:42.480
And this is the dream that he's describing to another

402
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:49.319
Apache warrior to nature. So that is I think by now, Karen,

403
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:52.519
the book is fresher for you and for me because

404
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:57.680
the last time, maybe I wrong, but I think that

405
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:05.799
that's the context thing in which this happened. I I

406
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:10.599
don't know in the later weeks, and obviously people is

407
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:16.160
has asked me about that, about the relationship between the

408
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:20.000
book and the present moment. And even when it is

409
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.079
true that part of the book, an important part of

410
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:26.839
the book was written during the first Trump administration, I

411
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:31.359
don't think that the book reacts to that specific thing you. No,

412
00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:37.559
there is this enormous, enormous, enormous thing that is the

413
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:44.480
occupation of the Americans by the European invaders. No one

414
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:47.200
is a saying, dear, I'm not blaming, namely when I

415
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:52.799
include my family there of course, and west from the truth.

416
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:57.119
As the SPI said, well it was your grandparents, mind state.

417
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.440
I don't know that's true? Is that? But as a

418
00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:07.759
joke anyway, there is this enormous historical process about which

419
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.039
I have been writing books, and I think I'm none.

420
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:13.559
I wrote three books about it. I'm none, I think.

421
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:19.119
And there is like the petty little political world bubbles

422
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:22.640
in which we leave. I think that if the novel

423
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:28.400
has resonances with today, is because we tend to repeat

424
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:32.000
this story, you know, because the rors in which we

425
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:35.680
were where great grandparents were involved, are similar to the

426
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:40.960
rors in which we are involved. I know, I know perfectly.

427
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:44.559
I'm an old boy by now, and I know that

428
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.799
everything you're writ is political. Now. Everybody is tired of

429
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:51.680
this exercise. I'm sorry with the people that listens to

430
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:54.960
you if they have heard me say it. But if

431
00:29:55.079 --> 00:30:00.319
Christina shows me her supermarket list, I know for who

432
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:06.000
she votes. It's everything we write is political, absolutely everything

433
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:09.279
we rt is political, and novels have been political forever,

434
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.480
not the beginning of the modern novel with Don Quixote.

435
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:17.680
Quixote is the first Western, of course, the first Row novel,

436
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:23.240
but it's an eminently political document. So yes, there are

437
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.279
always political questions in novels. But at the same time,

438
00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:33.480
Noel lets you like meditate, like slowly think about things

439
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.920
that are bigger than the news. Let's say, no older

440
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:41.599
than the news. It's really not a novel about that,

441
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:46.200
but it's natural that we will connect our contemporary sorrows

442
00:30:46.519 --> 00:30:50.880
to the sorrows of the people that lived in still

443
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:55.720
in the territory where we are, North America in the

444
00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:01.039
nineteenth century. And I be even say that that's very

445
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:04.440
cool about it. That's what it's really cool about it.

446
00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:08.839
So sometimes it comes out and it works well as

447
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:13.599
as you enjoy in this case, so thank you.

448
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.039
When we meet Camilla, she's running for her life after

449
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.640
her ranch has been really rated. Then she's captured and

450
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.720
pretty much tortured by the Apaches who capture her. But

451
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.960
when she's given the choice to return to La Republica,

452
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:34.400
she chooses to stay with the Apaches. Was this something

453
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:38.240
that was common? Could the role of women in the

454
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:40.920
Apache of culture have been motivation for Camilla.

455
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:44.799
Well, well, I don't know. I can't. We have to

456
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.319
go to San Carlos and ask the Apache of people

457
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:51.119
these things. I don't know. No, I do grit literator,

458
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:54.720
or I do write fiction. And of course the myth

459
00:31:55.359 --> 00:32:00.680
of the woman, that that is taken by ind genous people.

460
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:05.279
It's foundational not only of American literator, it's foundational for

461
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:11.640
Argentinian literator, for Mexican literator. There are thousands of books

462
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.440
about this. What I was trying to do, I don't

463
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:18.240
know if successfully or not, is to subvert this myth

464
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:24.119
with historical material, because it is true. We don't know

465
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:27.640
the name of the wife of Mangas Colorada, of course,

466
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:31.680
but it's very clear for historians, and there are many

467
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:36.160
testimonies that say that Mangas Colorada was married to a

468
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:40.000
woman from Chihuahua. And what is told in the book

469
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:44.359
is referred by people in their correspondence, etc. That Magas

470
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.319
Colorada was so in love with this chi Juaquan woman

471
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:53.200
that expelled his other his other two let's say more

472
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:57.200
politically legitimate wives, and he went into a lot of

473
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.599
trouble and had to fight because of that. All of

474
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:06.279
that is in the historical score, and she stays, we

475
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:09.279
can stop there. And then the myth of the woman

476
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:13.200
that is adopted and runs and returns to the safety

477
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.480
of the Mexican Republic in this case doesn't work. But

478
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:23.240
then when you begin to read the bibliography, you discover

479
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:29.960
that when the Apaches adopted Mexican and American kids and

480
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.119
they became Apaches, they never returned. They never returned, and

481
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.240
when they were forcibly taken by the army to the

482
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:41.920
original countries, they would run. While all the Apache children

483
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:46.799
that were thousands, thousands that were adopted by the armies

484
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:49.880
of Mexican and the United States to be brought to

485
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:53.799
Mexican the United States, they would run back. So everybody

486
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:55.839
wanted to be an Apache, and no one wanted to

487
00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:01.400
be Mexican. And you can't understand. And of course the

488
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:06.759
notion of freedom, the notion of community. Imagine the life

489
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:10.639
of Camilla and in the late nineteenth century, it's a

490
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:16.039
nightmare in the desert. The amount of taboos that weight

491
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:19.760
in a character like that, in a moment like that,

492
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:26.400
so for her is like a process of liberation. He

493
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:33.440
goes just just just the non torture. I would say

494
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:40.280
initiations cultural organizations are tough, and of course I didn't

495
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:44.199
sofferre during my migraptory process to the United States. I

496
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:48.840
didn't soffer anything that could be considered tortured by any means.

497
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.239
But it was tough also. Not to become Mexicano in

498
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:56.039
American for me was not easy, you know. So initiations

499
00:34:56.119 --> 00:35:00.760
are always difficult in the itterator where everything is sublimated.

500
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:02.840
And of course it is your right to read it

501
00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:06.960
as you want. It's your novel, not mine, and finish

502
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:13.480
that novel long long, But that was the character of

503
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:17.400
Camilla comes from there. And there is of course Christina

504
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.320
the like the literary traditions that for me are very important.

505
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:29.320
Camilla is a character, a very small character in very

506
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:33.800
jails any and it's a girl that is when an

507
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:37.920
invasion I don't even remember what where she comes from,

508
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:41.280
but an invasion is coming, and her father, that knows

509
00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:45.440
that the people will lose the war, tices Camilla as

510
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:49.320
a baby to an arrow and throws her through through

511
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:52.360
the river and she leans on the other side on

512
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:56.840
tye leaves and when she returns to avenge her people.

513
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:01.199
She's the queen of the Amazons already. So so that

514
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:07.760
is the character of Camilla. And I took so long

515
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:13.639
write in this book that I read between many things

516
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.280
in that process, and I was like, this is what

517
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:19.840
this character is doing. You know, she's crossing from one

518
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:24.119
culture to another, and she's writing as a giant. At

519
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:27.480
the end of the novel. There is a lot of suffering,

520
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:30.679
but there is a lot of empowerment too, I.

521
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:34.719
Hope, yeah, yeah, you could see it. You could definitely

522
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:36.320
see all of them her.

523
00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:39.159
When you write a book, Christina, you are like that

524
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:42.519
of Camilla. You are just throwing your arrow and you

525
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:50.159
just wait. That I was able to say what I

526
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:53.320
was planning to say, is the older I get, the

527
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:57.079
more scared I am about these processes, which I think

528
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.360
it's normal when you're all.

529
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:11.119
And so there was a lot of violence and sadness

530
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:13.119
in the book, but also a lot of humor that,

531
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:18.159
even in the translated version, felt very Mexican. And I

532
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:21.519
don't know if you watched Gros Frankenstein, but when it

533
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:23.320
was released there was a lot of talk about how

534
00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:26.400
you had to watch it mexicanly to really get it.

535
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:28.679
And that's how I kind of felt reading the book,

536
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:32.199
I felt I felt like a Mexican retelling of how

537
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:36.000
the US and Mexico borderlands came to be, which feels

538
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.400
like a discord that's been dominated by the United States.

539
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:41.239
But I mean either way, I read this book very mexicanly.

540
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.159
But was reclaiming this piece of history a goal you

541
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:46.840
had in mind when writing the book.

542
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:53.960
Absolute tament Caramel and I would say Spanish that was

543
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:58.960
the idea, not not not with pride, but with shame,

544
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:04.679
because we were the architects of that genocidal war. And

545
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:07.559
I think that in Mexico in general, we put that

546
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:11.760
blaming the Americans that have their share, of course, and

547
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:14.760
pretend that we are saints and we were not not.

548
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:17.960
The year of the years of the Republic were very

549
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:23.239
brutal for indigenous communities, more in the northern Mexico. On

550
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:27.199
one like to the final of your question, then the

551
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:30.639
German relator, I think that the Germantori, I don't know him,

552
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:33.679
but is a person that I quote more in my

553
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:37.239
life in that moment in which someone asks him, who

554
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.960
knows what? I don't even remember? When he just got

555
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:43.920
the oscar and she thinks about it and his answer is, well,

556
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:52.880
I'm Mexican, Ownrea. But will be related to the problem

557
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:56.880
of having a sense of humor that is not always well,

558
00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:03.760
unders too, that has some darkness in it. It's always

559
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:07.199
well in Mexican, you know that we do. That's our

560
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:12.360
identity resting in the ability to make fun of pain,

561
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:18.320
or to throw new light to traumatic events in order

562
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:21.800
to digest them better, or who knows what. Because I

563
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:27.800
am not a therapist, I am writer, thirteenth century literature professor,

564
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:32.119
so I should not be throwing theories human behavior here,

565
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:36.360
But yes, there is that. There was the need for

566
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:41.320
me to to like, this is a national story, and

567
00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:44.159
it was in the architecture of the novel. Care mean,

568
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:47.559
it was very important for me that the point of

569
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:53.280
view was always Mexican, almost always. No novels, well, there

570
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:55.719
are perfect, notedes. There is better parents, but there are

571
00:39:55.800 --> 00:40:00.039
perfect There are very few. They are very short. You

572
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:03.880
are trying to do something with the size of an epic.

573
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.400
I'm not saying that I wrote an I was thinking

574
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:11.239
in an opera, not in an epic. It's very difficult

575
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:16.719
to achieve perfection because novels are full of of our

576
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:22.639
human mistakes. But I always tried that. It was kind

577
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:26.599
of clear that there was a Mexican seeing these things,

578
00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:29.840
because I think that green Mexicans have to look at

579
00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:33.960
this process. Not the occupation of the desert of the Chihuahuan,

580
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:37.840
the Sonora deserts, and and of course the asserting parts

581
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:40.880
of California too, was not done only by the Spaniers

582
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:44.639
and the Americans or stall And there is of course

583
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:49.000
an in the civilization of Mexican culture in the southwest

584
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:51.719
of the United States. You are absolutely right plaiming that.

585
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:55.920
And it has to do with the posters in six

586
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:02.320
tricks not very far. Yes, the post it's the same thing,

587
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:06.920
the erasing of a culture that was there for three

588
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:09.960
hundred years. No, that is the Mexican, the Spanish, Mexican

589
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:15.760
imperial whatever Spanish speaking culture that there was in that territory.

590
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:17.960
But at the same time there is I think a

591
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:23.239
conscience process of erasing of those dark parts of history

592
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.280
from the Mexican powers that be, you know, the republic,

593
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:32.400
the Mexican Republic simply doesn't recognize what we did wrong

594
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:38.320
there or did I think the important symbolic effort of

595
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:41.800
going to the south and so to say, to indigenous communities,

596
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:45.960
we are sorry, but the North is still an open question,

597
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:52.760
and so that visibility can be a little thing, but

598
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:56.280
it can be Let's be clear about who we are

599
00:41:56.360 --> 00:42:00.760
to know what responsibilities we we we haven't this. And

600
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:03.800
when I was when the book came in Spanish in

601
00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:08.760
the beginning, and I went to chihuahu and I was

602
00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:12.800
invited to in the presentation, there was a group of

603
00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:16.400
Mexican paches and we were talking about all these things

604
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:20.400
in the winner and they were like, we're fine, so

605
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:27.280
Mexican way, but I seen San Tablos. They will tell you,

606
00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:33.400
they will tell you. So there is this double world

607
00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:35.679
that is the same world because everybody is a patchy,

608
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:38.679
everybody is Mexican American areas. But at the same time

609
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:42.239
we kind of use different shirts when we are trying

610
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.599
to expose things. For me, it was very important that

611
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:50.079
I had my Mexican shirt when I was writing this novel, Dreambod.

612
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:55.559
It's always a Mexican looking at things and wondering about

613
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:59.920
the apatches, wondering about the contemporary US, the old US, the.

614
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:04.719
And then we have one last question, because we're sure

615
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:07.880
that like us, our listeners would love this book. But

616
00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:11.800
what would you say to someone to convince them to

617
00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:12.519
read your book.

618
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:16.119
I would never do that, Christina. I'm so sorry, But

619
00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:18.480
there are so many good books in the world.

620
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:20.760
This is one of them, so I have to read it.

621
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:24.880
I'll say it.

622
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:35.360
Don't time with me, don't even if you already ready again, No, no,

623
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:38.519
I don't, I really don't. I say this very honestly.

624
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:43.719
I luckily in the contemporary world, if if you are

625
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:47.440
a writer, there is always a genius behind that will

626
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:50.880
convince people of reading your book. Yeah, I could not convince.

627
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:56.639
None of my children has ever read any of my books. No,

628
00:43:56.960 --> 00:44:02.400
do it. I wish you could read the books that

629
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:07.000
I imagine, not the ones say right, if you could

630
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:10.519
see them when they are conceived, they are extraordinary, but

631
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:15.159
they reality falls and they're just. But I want to

632
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:21.519
write so I will be calded by the genius.

633
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:30.360
Welcome everyone again. We don't need to because it's so good. No,

634
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:34.880
it feels like like a modern classic, like I feel like,

635
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:37.239
I don't know, decades from now, Like to me, this

636
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.760
will be like something that like those epics from back

637
00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:42.079
in the day that I don't I don't know because

638
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.400
I'm not a literary person like that. But I feel

639
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:46.800
like it's up there with those.

640
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:54.199
They just almost make me cry, and so I will

641
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:57.559
shut up. This is a moment for up and let

642
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:00.320
the people with that illusion right.

643
00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:05.519
And thank you so much for taking the time to

644
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:09.960
say with us and talk about this beautiful book before

645
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:13.199
we go. Do you want to tell the listeners where

646
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:15.840
they can follow your work? If you if you have

647
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:17.800
like a place that you want them to follow you,

648
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:20.239
like social media or anything like that.

649
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:28.480
I'm I'm a person mainly trolled by by his children

650
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:39.280
and students. I don't have anything I like read the

651
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:44.000
newspaper and paper. I'm a book pederson. I don't have

652
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:50.000
a book reader. I'm such an archaism and I think

653
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:52.920
that that that will eventually make me cool. But right

654
00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:57.039
now it's not work. Right, that is just ridiculous. But

655
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:04.079
I don't. I'm sorry, No, No, it's okay. I had

656
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:07.159
an email in the university grete me there, and I

657
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.960
always answer, or almost always answered.

658
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:11.599
Okay, well there we go. That's how you can find

659
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:15.280
But yeah, everyone else, make sure you get a copy

660
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:19.880
of this book. March third, twenty six is when it's out.

661
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:22.159
I think, yes, I'm pretty sure it's March third.

662
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:24.880
Yes, yes, I am Okay, of course I.

663
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:26.280
Know, of course, you know.

664
00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:30.199
The day, yes, I get in we do learn in

665
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.360
New York and that I get into a plane and

666
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:39.039
it's it's just a night. The genius of policity makes

667
00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:39.840
me work.

668
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:50.639
Right right, Thank you again, so much, thank you. Okay,

669
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:55.360
And that was our interview with Alvaro Andrigue. And like

670
00:46:55.400 --> 00:46:58.639
we said in the beginning of this, we encourage everyone

671
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:02.599
to go get this book, request it from your libraries.

672
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:03.760
M m m.

673
00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:06.880
We just know, right, because I mean we are history

674
00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:13.239
loving people here who always, you know, talk about the

675
00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:17.639
politics behind everything, about colonialism, and this book touches on

676
00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:22.199
all those things. Yeah, it really does. And it's beautiful

677
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:24.239
and who doesn't love a beautiful story that will make

678
00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:29.639
you cry, laugh, laugh again, like we said, very mexicanly written.

679
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:33.599
So yeah, and we hope that this was one last

680
00:47:33.639 --> 00:47:36.679
Istoria Unknown for you and one more book that you'll

681
00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:44.920
read in the future. Yes by Astoria's Unknown is produced

682
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:48.199
by Carmen and Christina, researched by Carmen and Christina, edited

683
00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:51.440
by Christina. You can find sources for every episode atias

684
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:53.519
Unknown dot com and in our show notes.

685
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:54.400
Creating.

686
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:55.719
The podcast has a lot of work, so if you

687
00:47:55.719 --> 00:47:57.920
want to help us out financially, you can do so

688
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:01.559
by supporting us on Patreon, at future on dot com,

689
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:02.960
Slashy Studios, and on podcast