Dec. 11, 2025

El Mozote Massacre (Revisited)

El Mozote Massacre (Revisited)
Spotify podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
Audible podcast player badge
PlayerFM podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player icon Apple Podcasts podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon Audible podcast player icon PlayerFM podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon

On December 11, 1981, the US trained Atlácatl battalion descended on the village of el Mozote (and surrounding villages) and enacted one of the worst human rights violations in Latin America. They murdered women, children and village. After their attack was over, it is estimated that at least 1000 civilians were killed. Survivors of the attack are still trying to seek justice.In this episode, Cristina tells Carmen about the Salvadoran civil war and the massacre of El Mozote. 

This episode was originally released in 2022, this is a reupload, but with updates regarding the trial. It discusses a massacre during the Salvadoran civil war, murder of children and rape are discussed, listen with care (or feel free to skip this episode if these are topics are triggering).

If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/

Want ad free episodes? And weekly bonus episodes? Support Historias Unknown on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/HistoriasUnknownPodcast

By joining, you can help Historias Unknown donate 20% funds to charity. This month's donation went to CLEAN, carwash worker center, an org that has been helping car wash workers who are unable to leave their homes due to increasing ICE raids in LA county, by providing groceries to over 200 car wash workers. Follow @carwasherxs on instagram

Follow on social media:

Instagram: https : //www.instagram.com/historiasunknown/

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@historiasunknown

Trial update from Cristosal: https://www.instagram.com/p/DSDZsNSEbfI/?igsh=MTVpNXgwdDJqaHpydQ==

Sources

http://www.lib.luc.edu/specialcollections/exhibits/show/ellacuria-tapes
https://www.historycrunch.com/causes-of-the-cold-war.html#/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/05/13/us-role-el-mozote-massacre-still-echoes-immigration-today/
https://elfaro.net/es/201003/noticias/1416/How-we-killed-Archbishop-Romero.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_Civil_War#Aims_of_the_junta's_violent_repression
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlacatl_Battalion
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/09/world/americas/09amaya.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8E-RJxjYMo
https://www.dplf.org/en/resources/el-mozote-massacre-trial-decades-long-search-justice-el-salvador-continues
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/world/americas/el-salvador-el-mazote-massacre.html
https://www.latinorebels.com/2018/09/06/daughterofelmozotesurvivor/
https://www.axios.com/el-mozote-salvador-massacre-40-years-22099231-a62f-45af-a53d-ddb639be60af.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%E1%BB%B9_Lai_massacre#:~:text=Victims%20included%20men%2C%20women%2C%20children,in%20C%20Company%2C%20was%20convicted.
Danner, M. (2005). The massacre at El Mozote:
A parable of the Cold War. Granta Books.
https://www.propublica.org/article/survivors-and-families-of-victims-of-a-1981-el-salvador-massacre-see-justice-slip-away-again#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16707316579004&referrer=
https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=
https%3A%2F%2Fwww.propublica.org%2Farticle%2Fsurvivors-and-families-of-victims-of-a-1981-el-salvador-massacre-see-justice-slip-away-again
https://elfaro.net/en/202104/el_salvador/25441/US-Government-Hid-Presence-of-US-Advisor-in-Mozote-Massacre-Expert-Says.htm
https://unfinishedsentences.org/el-faro-the-day-the-offended-of-el-mozote-silenced-the-military/

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:14.480
Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is

2
00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.000
Estudias Unknown, a podcaster. W We talk about Latin American history.

3
00:00:18.239 --> 00:00:22.199
Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like criticism, corruption,

4
00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:25.359
and genocide. But more than i it's also about resistance,

5
00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:29.920
power and community. Today is the anniversary of the massacre

6
00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:33.399
at Elmosote and we thought that today would be the

7
00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:37.520
best time to re release our episode where we discussed

8
00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:41.320
this massacre and Rufina Maya, a survivor of the massacre

9
00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:45.479
whose testimony brought all of this to light. But before

10
00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:49.280
we play that episode that we've already done, I did

11
00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:52.359
want to give an update. In that episode, we mentioned

12
00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:56.600
a court case that was currently stalled because of the

13
00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:02.039
Bucalet administration. But right now of the time of recording,

14
00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:06.159
the case of the Masulta massacre and the surrounding areas

15
00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:10.159
will proceed from the investigative face towards the public trial phase.

16
00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:13.640
This means that the court will examinate the evidence and

17
00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:17.719
determine the verdict. This ruling was issued by South Doran

18
00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:22.200
Criminal Court on November twenty six, twenty five, and what

19
00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:26.280
this does is it clears the way for scheduling a

20
00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:31.719
public hearing in the near future. However, there is right

21
00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:36.680
now no information on when that date will be, nor

22
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:41.359
is there any information regarding potential appeals by the defense.

23
00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:44.519
And thanks to the work of the survivors and the

24
00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:48.519
families who have been trying to seek justice for this

25
00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:53.560
massacre for forty four years and who have faced the

26
00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.879
state repeatedly shutting that fight for justice down, this is

27
00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:01.680
another step closer to that justice. The trial against former

28
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:06.560
Minister of Defense Guillermo Garcia, who is the highest making

29
00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:10.319
official responsible for the massacre, as well as another twelve

30
00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:14.800
officers of the Atlaka Battalion of the Southern Armed Forces.

31
00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:19.199
They all faced charges of murder, attempted murder, arsin rape,

32
00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:24.000
and aggravated coersion for what they did on December eleventh,

33
00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:26.960
nineteen eighty one. And like we said in the episode,

34
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:31.599
this is the largest massacre in Latin America, where one

35
00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:36.680
thousand civilians, most of them children, were killed. And at

36
00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:39.639
the time of recording twenty twenty five, it's been thirty

37
00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:43.919
five years since the original complaint was brought to any

38
00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:47.280
sort of attempt at a trial, thirteen years since the

39
00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:50.400
Inter American Court of Human Rights order the persecution of

40
00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:54.840
those responsible and nine years since the case was reactivated

41
00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.000
following the annulment of the amnesty law that shielded it

42
00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.800
for twenty three years. And it's taken so long because

43
00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:07.199
of the Salvadoran government. In nineteen ninety two, former President

44
00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:11.919
Alfredo Christiani, who was also facing charges for things that

45
00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:15.240
happened during the civil war, he denied the existence of

46
00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:18.199
military files related to the case. And then in twenty

47
00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:23.240
twenty Nai Bukele blogged Corps ordered inspections of the military

48
00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:28.280
archives that Alfred Christiani originally denied existed. And then in

49
00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:32.840
twenty twenty one, Bukele's political takeover of the judiciary led

50
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:35.639
to the removal of the judge who was presiding over

51
00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:39.199
the case of elmo Soote. And everything that I just

52
00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:43.680
said is paraphrased from a post by Cristosal, who we

53
00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.639
have mentioned before. I will link the posts that they

54
00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.960
made about this. And now on to this episode again,

55
00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:53.439
listen with care. This is a very heavy episode, but

56
00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.439
today is the anniversary of Elmosote and we thought it

57
00:03:56.520 --> 00:04:01.000
was very important to re highlight this incident in history.

58
00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:06.360
Today is going to be a very heavy episode. I

59
00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:10.520
will warn everyone right now, this topic will talk about

60
00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:15.159
a massacre that happened in and rape. There was a

61
00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.399
rape involved. It happens during the Civil War, so there's

62
00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:21.279
you know, this is this was a massacre. I would

63
00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:24.040
go as far to say that it was an attempt

64
00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:27.720
at genocide possibly because like these are indigenous people that

65
00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:31.959
were in these areas, and yeah, and the rape. So

66
00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:35.839
if this that's something that is hard to here, then

67
00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:40.480
it's okay to skip this episode. And if you're gonna listen,

68
00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:44.319
just yeah, be ready for these horrible topics. Because at

69
00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:47.360
the time of recording, it's the fourteenth and on the

70
00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:51.600
eleventh of December, is it's it's the forty first anniversary

71
00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:55.560
of the Elmo Soe massacre. So that's what that's what

72
00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:58.279
we're going to be talking about today. For those of you,

73
00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.360
because there's a lot of people that don't don't know

74
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.800
about Elmosote. I think you have to be Salvadoran and

75
00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:05.560
on top of that, you have to be looking for

76
00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:08.079
it's going to say you have to be solventorian, yes,

77
00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:10.639
and you have to be looking for the information because

78
00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:13.680
it is something that has been hidden. It has been tried,

79
00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:16.160
the attempt to hide it. It has been is it's been

80
00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:20.319
perfectly being done, yes, and changing the story of how

81
00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:23.240
it happened. Also, some people don't even believe it happened.

82
00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:27.879
Oh my god, it's like the Holocaust deniers. Yeah, it's

83
00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:32.839
exactly like that. So before talking about the Elmsota massacre,

84
00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:36.600
some context is necessary. And if you've listened to my

85
00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.160
Spookitos podcast that we did last March, we talked about

86
00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:42.720
historic women and in one of those episodes, we talked

87
00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.839
about Rufina Maya, and Rufina Maya is a survivor of

88
00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:48.360
the of fuck I was gonna see the Holocaust. Sorry,

89
00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.800
it's a survivor of Elmosote and we tell her story

90
00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.040
specifically in that episode. Today, I'm going to be sharing

91
00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.759
more stories from other survivors, but I I'm also going

92
00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:03.959
to start out this episode with some context. But I

93
00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.560
think a reminder is good for everyone because not everyone

94
00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:10.519
remembers or knows about this. The Salvadoran Civil War lasted

95
00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:13.079
twelve years from nineteen eight to nineteen ninety two, and

96
00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:15.920
by the end of it, nearly seventy five thousand and

97
00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:19.240
Salvadorans had lost their lives. A lot of people went missing.

98
00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:23.319
So after World War Two, two superpowers emerged the US

99
00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:26.720
and the Soviet Union, and they obviously would not go

100
00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:29.360
to war with each other because you know, nuclear war

101
00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:33.519
and mutual destruction. Instead, they waged proxy wars. The United

102
00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:38.000
States feared that Soviet expansion into They feared the you know, communism,

103
00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:42.600
the expansion of communism and everybody got into Eastern Europe,

104
00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:44.560
and so they and they didn't want it to get

105
00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.759
all over the world. And President Truman announced that the

106
00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:50.319
United States was going to contain the spread of communism.

107
00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:52.439
They were going to be the police of the world

108
00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:54.920
or whatever the fuck. And this is a truth. This

109
00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:58.839
is the trumant doctrine for those that don't remember. And

110
00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:02.120
so the United States, it's financially and in some occasions

111
00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:07.000
directly aided wars in Latin America to prevent quote unquote

112
00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:09.839
prevent communism. So I think we all know by now

113
00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:12.000
if you've been listening to this episode, that the United

114
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.959
States has meddled in Latin America for a very long

115
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:20.000
time now, time and time again. Yeah, with interest, with

116
00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:26.199
capitalist interests, and interest to prevent communism is the whole reasons.

117
00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:30.279
And so sometimes presidents have been democratically elected and they

118
00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:35.639
will overthrow these democratic elections because these people don't favor

119
00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:40.120
the units in favor of dictatorships. Yeah, yes, yeah, so

120
00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:43.959
that's you know, that's why the United States was involved

121
00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:48.079
in Latin America. And so if we go back to Sarvadod, now,

122
00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:51.040
before the official start of the Civil War, tension between

123
00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:57.399
Campetinos rural people, people in the rural areas, right and

124
00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:00.000
the all thei garchs had been raising. One of the words.

125
00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:04.720
Occurrences of these tensions happened in nineteen thirty two when

126
00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:08.720
General Maximiliano or Nandez carried out in operation that is

127
00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:12.319
known as La Matanza the slaughter if you translate that

128
00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:15.160
into English. And this was the killing of thirty thousand

129
00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:20.879
coffee farmers, mostly indigenous Pep people of Itabador, and they

130
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:23.360
were protesting terrible work conditions, and we talk about this

131
00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:29.399
in the Coffee episode, so our first episode. And these

132
00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:32.320
killings occurred in the span of a week. They went

133
00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:37.279
on to ban indigenous languages, traditions, clothing. This just widened

134
00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:41.440
the economic gap, leaving indigenous people that were in rural

135
00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:45.240
areas growing more poor while the oligarchs grew more rich.

136
00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:47.879
And we have mentioned them a bunch of times, but

137
00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:51.720
the twelve families are the oligarchs, and that was fourteen.

138
00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:58.320
Sorry fourteene. Yeah, I am out of it. Yeah, okay, yeah,

139
00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.000
I'm very out of it. By the nineteen seventies, there

140
00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:05.279
was a middle class emerging, but the upper class was

141
00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:11.240
seen still at a super advantage, right, and so there

142
00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:15.440
was there was a resistance growing. Different groups of armed

143
00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:21.679
resistance were forming, and coffee farmers basically farmers were joining,

144
00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:25.919
you know, these groups becoming or big and this is

145
00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:30.320
what would become the guerrilla And then there were smaller

146
00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:35.200
guerrilla warfare tactics going on, but it wasn't to the

147
00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:38.480
point of the civil war yet and protests were also increasing.

148
00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:42.279
By the nineteen eighties, the different armed resistance groups became

149
00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:47.399
one group. This was called the Frente Farrabundo Marti Parali

150
00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:53.639
Racial or now you know, just shortened to FMLN. This

151
00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:58.440
group was named after one of the leaders that were

152
00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:00.639
killed during La Matanzas. So when of the leaders that

153
00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:04.799
led that revolt was Fadabun no Macti and he was

154
00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:12.759
killed and we cover that in the Coffee episode. So Hunter,

155
00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:16.720
President Carter, in effort to address human rights abuses and

156
00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:21.879
inequality began in the Salvador. But once President Reagan took over,

157
00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:25.279
it went from address in human rights to just flat

158
00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:29.360
out stopping communism, that's what he called it. Under it

159
00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:32.240
was under the guys or whatever under Reagan, I mean,

160
00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:37.960
both economic and military aid were provided to the Salvadoran government.

161
00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:43.039
While the FMLN was receiving aid from Nicaragua and Kuwa,

162
00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:47.320
who was receiving their aid from the Soviet Union. The

163
00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:50.919
FMLN did not receive anywhere near the amount of aid

164
00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.440
that the Salvadoran army did. So it was a lot

165
00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:56.840
of money, up to four billion dollars was given to

166
00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:01.840
the Salvadoran government. Sorry military, same thing. Yeah, yeah, during

167
00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:04.759
the height of the war, and it got to the

168
00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:06.720
point where it was like one to two million a

169
00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:11.320
day that was being given for military aid. There was

170
00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:14.080
a lot of human rights violations during the civil war,

171
00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:18.840
and it was written or told that or said, you

172
00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.360
know that the FMLN was doing was the one committing

173
00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:26.559
these human rights violations. After the war and after all that,

174
00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:30.159
there was a report or not a study, but investigation,

175
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:33.679
that's the word I was looking for done. So a

176
00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:36.600
separate report done by the United Nations found that over

177
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.360
the ninety percent of the human rights violations committed during

178
00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.639
the Civil War, it was all done by right wing

179
00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:46.039
military forces trained and ate it by the United States. Yeah,

180
00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:49.879
what a surprise, right, And even to this day, most

181
00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:53.120
people if they were not in these rural villages, if

182
00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:57.679
they were not in these left leaning areas, or the

183
00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:02.799
people that were near the Yes, if anyone was away

184
00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:07.200
from that, they will repeat this narrative. Yeah, that both

185
00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:09.919
sides were doing wrong. Oh, both sides did it, but

186
00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:14.480
both the reality it's just what's been uh, how history

187
00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:18.799
has been rewritten. Yeah, it's what the Salvadorian government was saying,

188
00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.039
and it's what the United States government was saying and

189
00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.840
to the state will still say. But the report is

190
00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:28.279
out there, you can find it. And it I mean

191
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:34.399
the UN acted as a like a neutral party or what. Yes, yeah,

192
00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:39.039
when they did their report. So the United States covertly aided,

193
00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:43.879
covertly aided a coup in nineteen seventy nine. Some historians

194
00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.879
now believe this coup was done on on the South

195
00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:49.799
Durians army owned their own accord, it wasn't the United

196
00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:52.559
States who you know was doing it. I don't know

197
00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:54.759
which one is right, but there was a coup, and

198
00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:57.480
this was the official start of the Civil War, though

199
00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:04.279
before this there were smaller revoltspin So the Moderate Democratic

200
00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:07.200
Party that took over was too liberal for the right

201
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:10.279
wing group called Arena, who still I think there's still

202
00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:13.799
a thing to this day in sad Yeah, they are.

203
00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:17.600
So after the Civil War, two parties emerged from that

204
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.080
right and it was and actually that's something I'm going

205
00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:23.960
to talk about in the next episode, which is going

206
00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:30.080
to be about he's basically the third party. It's actually

207
00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:32.919
really good that you are. Yeah, yeah, that you're doing that.

208
00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:38.279
NXT leads into yeah, yeah, yes, the group are Ina,

209
00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:42.840
the New Democratic Party was too liberal for them. They

210
00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:45.879
were not liberal at all. Let me just state that

211
00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:49.840
right now. And so the the Arena they began ruthless

212
00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:53.399
tactics to get rid of the opposition. These tactics included

213
00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:56.759
killing activists and church leaders. And it's worth noting that

214
00:13:56.840 --> 00:13:59.159
during this time there was a huge movement in the

215
00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:03.200
liberations going on. So the liberation theology and the most

216
00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:07.360
basic of you know, definitions is the church helping the

217
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:12.840
most vulnerable, and and they took a stand against the oligarchs,

218
00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:14.799
and you know, in most places that's not a thing

219
00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.879
that was being done, even though technically like that's what

220
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:24.840
Jesus was aiming for, right, yeah, But most historically Catholicism

221
00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:29.919
were it was like they were rich and yeah yeah,

222
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.039
so and then they were doing the opposite and they

223
00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:38.480
were writing yes, yeah. They really asked themselves, what would

224
00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:41.840
Jesus do? And they did they did, they did that. Yes.

225
00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:47.720
Archbishop oscarro Metro, he was canonized as a saint in

226
00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:51.720
twenty eighteen, but he published a letter, a public letter

227
00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:54.840
to President Jimmy Carter, urging him to seize military aid

228
00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:58.080
to Sor. In his letter, he said political powers in

229
00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:01.399
the hands of the armed forces. They know only how

230
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.000
to repress the people and defend the interests of the

231
00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:08.639
self zone oligarchy, and that US support would only sharpen

232
00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:12.039
the injustice and repression against the organizations of the people,

233
00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:15.480
which repeatedly have been struggling to gain respect for their

234
00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:20.320
fundamental human rights. So this letter was public. He did

235
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:24.240
it on the on February nineteen eighty and he was assassinated,

236
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:27.919
and partly because of his beliefs, because of what he

237
00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:30.480
was doing, but also because of this letter. He was

238
00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:35.360
assassinated on March twenty fourth, nineteen eighty and actually one

239
00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.039
of the captains responsible for this murder fled U s

240
00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.879
a Rador to avoid trial, and he lived in Modesto,

241
00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:45.360
California for years, which is where we lived. Yeah, that's

242
00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:48.000
where we went to high school. And he worked at

243
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:53.440
US as a car's car dealership person, probably on Curws Landing, right,

244
00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:56.960
that's my guess. And he was there for years and

245
00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.639
then he fled from the US and he's hiding somewhere

246
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.799
and I don't know, somewhere in the mountains. And he

247
00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:08.759
still hasn't taken blame for or he still doesn't think

248
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:13.200
he's responsible for the murder of He hasn't taken accountability. Yeah,

249
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:16.519
but he now lives in poverty, begging for his children's

250
00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:25.600
forgiveness and they don't talk to them. So um okay, sorry,

251
00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:27.559
And that was a little offside, but I wanted to

252
00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:30.840
include it. So by the end of the war, it

253
00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:34.120
is estimated that two dozen priests had been assassinated, and

254
00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:37.639
the last six that were assassinated with that was in

255
00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:41.919
nineteen eighty nine. That case has been reopened and I

256
00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:46.039
think the former president Alfredo Christiani, he was going to

257
00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:48.799
be brought to justice for this and then he fled

258
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:53.080
although in twenty twenty one, and so atrocities by the

259
00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:58.399
right winged group grew throughout the war. They used tactics

260
00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:02.639
that the US military taught them, specifically tactics called draining

261
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:07.720
the sea or scorched earth tactics. And so what this

262
00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:10.559
means is that they would weaken the insurgency by going

263
00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:14.839
after civilians that supported the rebels, and these people were

264
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:19.920
largely indigenous people Campecinos, farm workers in the countryside. So

265
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:24.240
they were killing displacing civilians by the thousands by nineteen

266
00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:29.160
eighty one. The at Lakat Battalion, which is so ironic

267
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:34.640
because that name is analogenous isn't it, Yeah, Sinawa, and

268
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.720
but here they are it just it's just murdering. If

269
00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.079
that is not with their own language or whatever with

270
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.039
the battalion name after yeah, because that is not Latin,

271
00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:51.000
then I don't know what. Right. So this battalion was

272
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:54.799
mobilized in nineteen eighty one and they were to be

273
00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:59.799
a rapid response counter insurgency battalion. They were trained and

274
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.519
organized by the US Army in the School of Americas

275
00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:08.039
in Panama. Graduates of this School of Americas went on

276
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:11.440
to commit some of the worst human rights violations like

277
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:16.880
in existence. And these are all US trained people. What

278
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:18.640
is that? I don't know. What that doesn't tell you

279
00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:22.799
anything about the United States? I don't know. I mean, yeah,

280
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:28.799
So this battalion led scorched earth operations and one of

281
00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:33.160
the worst massacres known as Elmosote. And this wasn't done

282
00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:37.599
just in El Mosote, and this was in the Mosotes,

283
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.119
like the biggest pueblo in that area, but there were

284
00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:44.119
pueblos leading up to Mosota. They did the same the

285
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:46.519
same thing, and they've all just kind of been lumped together.

286
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:49.880
But La Jo, yeah, is one place, and then there's

287
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.000
a few others, like to about three other people that

288
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.440
were just really nearby and Mosota and they did the

289
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.240
same thing to these people. So this is kind of

290
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:05.480
where like the worst of it will be described. So

291
00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.680
on the evening on the seven of December tenth, nineteen

292
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:12.400
eighty one, a few soldiers entered the village of Elmosote

293
00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:15.599
and demanded that citizens hand over their weapons. When the

294
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.319
villagers said they had no weapons, the soldiers killed a

295
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:22.400
few people and left. In the early hours of December eleventh,

296
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.880
nineteen eighty one, the at La Cate, battalions stormed and

297
00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:30.119
occupied the village. They ripped people from their beds, They

298
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:35.599
burned houses and animals. They gathered all the townspeople, separated

299
00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.559
the children, the men, and the women. The men were

300
00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:42.119
all murdered first so the kids and women could watch.

301
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.119
They were all beheaded. Many of the women were then

302
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:49.000
raped so the children could watch, and then murdered. Soldiers laughed.

303
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:51.920
This is like, I mean, all of it is disgusting

304
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.640
and horrible. Children. Oh sorry, soldiers laughed as they threw

305
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:59.279
children in the air before stabbing them. Oh, that is

306
00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:03.359
truly horrible. What kind of like the amount of dehumanization

307
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.440
you had to have in order to do things like

308
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.960
that like that is just it's unimaginable to me. Yeah,

309
00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:14.920
I yeah, for sure. Over the course of three days,

310
00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.160
it is estimated that a thousand people were killed. The

311
00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.559
following is trial testimony from a few of the different

312
00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:27.519
trials that have happened about this. So Amadeo Sanchez was

313
00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:31.279
eight years old when the massacre happened, and he said

314
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:33.720
he told them. He told the judge that he survived

315
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.680
by fleeing into the corn and see silfields with his father.

316
00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:42.079
He heard as girls and women were raped. He hid

317
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:44.200
and they hit him and his father hit until the

318
00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:48.319
soldiers left. Once there was silence and they were sure

319
00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.799
that the soldiers were gone, they returned to their village.

320
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.319
They found the bodies of his mother and his two siblings,

321
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:59.039
as well as those of his aunts, uncles, and cousins,

322
00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:02.839
and one adobe house. He testified that he saw the

323
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:05.480
body of a woman who had been shot in the head.

324
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.279
Next to her was a one day old baby boy.

325
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:14.000
Oh my god, the baby boy's throat had been cut.

326
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:20.160
And he told the judge that on the wall soldiers

327
00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:24.640
had written unina muertos sung guerri jerro menos one their

328
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.680
child is one less guerri ya soldier. That is just horrible.

329
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.000
But that's what that's the shit. They would say, like

330
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:33.960
like they mean, that's how you know this, Jennison, Like

331
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:38.640
a guerdietro is an excuse or a code name for

332
00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:41.200
an indigenous person, you know what I mean. And it's

333
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.880
like the same thing they would say, hear about indigenous people,

334
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.119
and they did the same thing in Vietnam. They did

335
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.200
the same These are tactics learned, I mean, that's how

336
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:56.119
you know they were us trained. Yeah, so Henato Sanchez

337
00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:59.799
was forty nine on December eleventh, nineteen eighty one. At

338
00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:01.759
the time, he was living in the village of La

339
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:08.319
Joya in the municipality of man Mangera Morassan, and Morassan

340
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:12.720
is the department that El Moste is in. That's where

341
00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.720
his home is and he still lives there at the

342
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.920
time that he gave this testimony, So he told the judge.

343
00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:24.880
The following he saw helicopters landing in Arara Viecha and

344
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:28.440
he saw soldiers shooting in the village of La Joya.

345
00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:32.160
He escaped with his life partner and four children. They

346
00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:36.160
just hid in a bush. On the night of December eleventh,

347
00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:44.440
nineteen eighty one, Sotero Guevara and Patrisodia's neighbors from nearby

348
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:48.000
told came to his house crying because their family had

349
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:52.960
just been killed. The grieving couple and the Sanchez family

350
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:57.039
went together to Las Marias river in Lahoya, and then

351
00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:01.920
a week later they Sanchez when doing the testimony, Henaro

352
00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:05.960
Sanchez went to the Sotero home and they found it

353
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:11.720
in ruins, along with the bodies of Catarina Chicas, Petronila Chicas,

354
00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:18.759
Housta Guevara, Jacinta Guevara, Roque Guevara, who Henaro calls his

355
00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:26.079
son Ambrosio Guevara, Lorenzo, bijuill Aminta Bijuill, Pedro Bihil. The

356
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:30.759
entire families, entire generations, I mean, an entire fucking town.

357
00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:36.240
Mm hmmm. And this was in La Joya. He says

358
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.559
that they had to throw five women, two girls and

359
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:43.920
two boys into a hole to bury them. They were

360
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:48.079
there were nine of them. Jacinta uh Guevara was nine

361
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.640
months pregnant. Oh, and he says that he this is

362
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.519
his testimony. I touched one of the bodies that to

363
00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:58.720
put it in the hole and the flesh came off.

364
00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:03.400
And then they were just helping dig graves for the

365
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.359
wounded or the dead, I mean, And they found further

366
00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:10.599
down from this house, they found sixteen more dead. Their

367
00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:16.279
families buried them. Just things like that. Let's see, if

368
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:19.240
you recall the names, there was people with the last

369
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:24.559
name Chicas, so Lydia Chicas. She was part of that family.

370
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:30.000
So she gave testimony as well. And also one more thing.

371
00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:34.079
So when the first trial happened in the nineties, and

372
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.359
that's the trial that Rufina Amaya also testified in and

373
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:40.440
their testimony that I'm about to that I already shared one.

374
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:42.960
I'm about to read the next one next. They wouldn't

375
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:47.319
even the courts wouldn't even acknowledge them as victims or survivors.

376
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:51.079
So what they have been become known as is the party.

377
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:53.839
They have been called the offended. So when you look

378
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:57.960
at documents, it says the offended versus the government or

379
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:03.200
the military. It doesn't say the victims. It's the offended. Disgusting,

380
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.519
but all all of that to not take accountability, you know,

381
00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:11.359
so when they have to say they had to test

382
00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.240
they have to testify or state how they were offended.

383
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:17.880
That's how they have to it's addressed in court. So

384
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:23.160
Lydia Chicas and this is her testimony. On December thirteenth,

385
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:25.319
nineteen eighty one, at six in the morning, in the

386
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:29.559
village of Bosa Onda in Mangeira, she says, I saw

387
00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:32.079
a great number of men in green uniforms armed with

388
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:35.400
rifles and machetas. About eight in the morning, they began

389
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:38.799
to kill people who lived there. I heard the people

390
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.960
shouting and the sound of blows like cutting a banana tree.

391
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:47.880
While I was hiding in some bushes. I saw when

392
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:52.759
they killed Sinfhooyes with their machetas and his wife Okenyadas,

393
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.000
who was pregnant, and their four children, who were miners.

394
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.519
The children were talking to their father and mother. They said, mommy,

395
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:01.920
get up. How could they get up? They were already dead.

396
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:07.680
Her parents Padro Chicas, Florentina, Meha Mahiah. Sorry, they were

397
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:11.279
killed in the massacre. Her brother Omad Omad was slashed

398
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.920
in the face, his fingers were mutilated. Her sister Agustina

399
00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:18.920
was on a rock that she found. Sorry. She found

400
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:21.440
her sister Agustina on a rock with her skirt lifted,

401
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:28.960
her parents down dead, her three younger siblings, her grandmother,

402
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:33.240
her three uncles, her aunts, her cousins. In total, fifty

403
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:35.839
five of her relatives were killed in this massacre. How

404
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:40.319
many fifty five? Oh my god, that's like her whole family.

405
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:44.400
Whole family. And that's the thing about these communities, and

406
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:49.400
back then people still lived in these large amounts. So yeah,

407
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:54.880
entire families like like the whole, not even just like

408
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.559
because people think family, they think a media family. No,

409
00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:03.799
they like this whole everyone extended, like every higher family. Yeah. Yes,

410
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:09.599
so if this is in the in the article that

411
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:12.720
I got this from, it was from the trial. But

412
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:15.599
so the person that and these are all basically these

413
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.559
are all sort of el Fao and those stars are

414
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:19.880
going to be linked by a lot of this is

415
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:24.200
from Elfaro. So the reporter that wrote this up said,

416
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:29.160
she said fifty five. I asked another reporter covering the hearing. Yes,

417
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:32.119
she said fifty five. If a thousand people died in

418
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:36.599
the most with the massacre, five percent were Lydia's relatives.

419
00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:40.359
And the silence in the courtroom was apparently unbearable, which

420
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:43.119
I mean, like just reading this is I mean, how

421
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:46.559
do you and I know she did, because you know

422
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:48.480
she's testifying and stuff, and I'm like, how do you

423
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:51.240
go on like that? Like how do you write on

424
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:57.519
top of like the trauma, the grief, yeah, the survivor's guilt,

425
00:27:58.119 --> 00:28:03.200
all of it. So I also found for the first

426
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.440
time in twenty twenty, they were able to find two

427
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:13.279
soldiers that testified in from the battalion and so their

428
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:16.039
identities were kept hidden. They were known as Huan And

429
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:18.720
they do not deserve that, Honestly, they don't deserve that,

430
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.599
but they were given that. And I think it's just

431
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:24.359
so that they can have them alive to actually do

432
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.680
the trial, because they would they would be killed. That

433
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.880
makes sense, A hundred percent believe they would be killed

434
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:34.960
by the government in order not to shit more. Yeah. Yeah, so,

435
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:37.960
and have I found one of their testimonies? So this

436
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.759
wasn't a November twenty twenty, twenty twenty, sorry, November twenty

437
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:46.319
twenty trial. Two of the soldiers in the battalion testified,

438
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:50.559
and their testimonies solidifies what survivors of the massacre have

439
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:54.000
been saying for decades because a lot of people are

440
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:57.920
were trying to like deny, have tried to deny and

441
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:01.799
silence the survivors for decades, but the testimony of this

442
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:05.759
soldier really solidifies what they've been saying too. So this

443
00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:09.559
is from the one that they call Juan. You're going

444
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:12.319
to ask me about the massacre at in Mossote, Morossan

445
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:16.599
in December nineteen eighty one, cer Juan, and his voice

446
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:19.240
was changed. He was hidden behind a wooden divider. Only

447
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.920
the prosecutors and the judges know their true identities. Wow.

448
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:27.799
So he says, it was the beginning of December, a

449
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:31.400
few days before I was at the al Atlakat Battalion

450
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:34.599
headquarters in No Pico La li Ertad. I joined on

451
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:37.359
March first, nineteen eighty one. I was there because I

452
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:40.079
earned a little more where I was before in the

453
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:45.200
second Infantry, Bigreat Brigade. Sorry can't talk. I was in

454
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:47.960
the second of six companies, each with one hundred and

455
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:51.440
sixty men. The commander of the Atla cat Battalion was

456
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:56.920
Colonel monter Rosa and second in command was Natividad Jesus Cassarees.

457
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:03.359
Captain Mauricio Isak Duke Osano gathered us. He was a skinny, tall, white,

458
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.200
curly haired man. They told us to load up into

459
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:09.079
the trucks. I put on my rucksack and climbed into

460
00:30:09.079 --> 00:30:12.400
one of the eight trucks. We came here to San Francisco,

461
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:15.599
Go Terra. The company got out to go to the

462
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.480
store and eat something. The leaders entered the barracks. Among

463
00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:22.400
those who entered, I remember Perez Riez and Alvado Alavado Guevara.

464
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:26.039
They were there for about forty five minutes. When they

465
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:28.319
came out, they ordered me back into the truck. I

466
00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:30.680
put on my pack and we traveled to Perguin, where

467
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.160
we slept in the hillside. At nine the next morning,

468
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:35.480
they lined us up. I mean, all, this is like

469
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.720
Mahala got there. Okay, well it's about to get there,

470
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:41.359
so I might as well just read it and feel

471
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.000
like I got this far. Yeah. Yeah, So at nine

472
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:49.119
the next morning they lined us up. Sergeant Juliosesaravas Masquez

473
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:52.920
Martinez and Sergeant Martinez Martinez were there. We began marching.

474
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.440
We didn't know where we were going or why we

475
00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:58.799
were traveling on foot down paths that led to Almosote.

476
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:02.759
We arrived between eleven in the morning and twelve. The

477
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:06.240
soldiers started forming groups while I stayed behind with the rugsacks.

478
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:08.599
Aside from the groups, the rest of the unit was

479
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.960
assigned to the perimeter, watching the terrain, which was both

480
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.119
flat and hilly. Lieutenant Alvaro Alvaro Guevara ordered them to

481
00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:19.160
form groups because they were going to kill people. He

482
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:23.920
received orders from monte Rosa, who received orders from general staff.

483
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:28.519
A soldier, a corporal or officer can't make such a

484
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:33.079
decision alone. Alvaro Guevara ordered them to pull the people

485
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.640
out of the hallways and patios of the houses. They

486
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:39.119
ordered the group the other groups to start killing them.

487
00:31:39.160 --> 00:31:44.400
I saw Corporal Martinez ca Jejas, Corporal Remberto Rees Lopez

488
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:49.200
and s Moreno Granada shooting. I was about fifty yards

489
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.480
away looking after the equipment. We were carrying ammunition, clothes,

490
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:55.720
food for three days in our rugsacks, but careless eaters

491
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:58.640
would finish it. On one day. We carried in M sixteen.

492
00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:03.200
The uniform was olive green with the Atlacat patch on

493
00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:06.559
one other and one other heavenly detail. It came with

494
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:09.519
the helmet of fiber and steel. I saw the people

495
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:13.559
children from ages two of six, women and men, dressed humbly.

496
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:18.680
These soldiers of Atla Cat shot them dead. After killing them,

497
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:21.480
they left them there and we regrouped. They began to

498
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:25.519
burn down the houses. I didn't report this before because

499
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:27.720
if I did, they would kill me. I also didn't

500
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:31.359
have the opportunity. I'm poor and I work constantly. I

501
00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:34.000
told them what they were doing to the children was injustice,

502
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.599
but I couldn't stop it because I wasn't their boss.

503
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.920
I was in an Almosota for two days and two nights.

504
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:43.000
After we traveled for about three hours along the path

505
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:46.480
to San Fernando Gotera. That's where the trucks arrived. And

506
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:50.920
this goes along with the testimony that villagers have always said.

507
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:55.559
The attacks lasted two days. They marched, and as they marched,

508
00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:59.119
they stopped in other villages. And there's one girl, well

509
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:01.759
she was a girl at a time, I'm Vidya. She

510
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:04.440
saw them get into the buses. He says, that's where

511
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:07.279
the truck's going, not buses, trucks. She saw that happen,

512
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:11.359
and he said truck corroborates her story, which, of course,

513
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:20.039
I mean, people believe, but the deniers needed like prove

514
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:25.200
I guess. Yeah. And the information about the battalions is

515
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:28.119
what has always been known as well, that there were

516
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:33.440
six companies of one hundred and like whatever a number

517
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:40.880
he said, just like it does further prove that Italian existed. Yeah,

518
00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:43.680
I'm just like sorry, I want to believe him that

519
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:47.359
he said it was wrong and maybe, I mean, of course,

520
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:50.079
one soldier who believes all of this is wrong doesn't

521
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.680
have the power to act on any of it. And

522
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:58.359
Ruffina Maya's testimony, she heard a soldier say this, I

523
00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:01.480
think Gong Entry was killed saying that in the Your

524
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:06.880
Spooky Tales episode about her. Yeah, h and I do

525
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:12.199
have her testimony here should I say it again, even

526
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.840
though I've shared in that episode, I think it's worse

527
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:19.480
repeating all right, Well, we will then, of course share

528
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:23.559
her testimony again. It is a little long and very

529
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:26.960
hard to listen to. So warning again, because this is

530
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:30.440
actually worse than it's just a lot more detailed because

531
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:33.159
I found a video of her sharing her testimony and

532
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:36.880
I translated it word for the word, So it's just

533
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.360
very detailed. And the reason I say it's worth sharing

534
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:41.679
is not to talk about the horrible things that happen,

535
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:43.880
but because this is her testimony, right, and she like

536
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:47.679
survived all of this and was strong enough to share

537
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:52.039
it again and again and again. Yeah, and so that's

538
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.320
why I say it's worse. And she's no longer here

539
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:59.199
with us, that's right, so someone has to keep sharing it. Yeah,

540
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:03.519
it's important to so as we both sorry, we won

541
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:06.440
the good tea breather at the same time, we did

542
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:11.679
know you're okay, yeah, okay. So Ravina Maya was at

543
00:35:11.719 --> 00:35:15.360
the end of the line of women when they were

544
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:18.320
separated into groups of men and women once the soldiers

545
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:20.960
had arrived at almoste She was at the end of

546
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.679
the line of women because she fought and fought when

547
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:27.360
they ripped her children from her arms, that's why she

548
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.719
was at the end. And because she was at the end,

549
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:33.599
she managed to escape when a woman in front of

550
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:37.119
her in line was fighting against the guards, and they

551
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:40.719
all kind of went towards that woman. She went down

552
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:43.079
on her knees and crawled away, and while they were

553
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:46.599
all busy, and that's how she crawled away and hid.

554
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:50.840
She crawled towards the pine and crab apple trees. She

555
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.639
pulled two branches down and she held onto those branches

556
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:01.079
from five pm until one am to continue hiding herself.

557
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:07.559
And she stayed there, crawled and hiding that long. She

558
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:12.559
heard as they killed men women. She also saw them

559
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:18.480
preparing to leave when one soldier said nos gavrones, meaning

560
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:24.400
there were still children. One soldier opposed, saying they could

561
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:27.360
just take them with them as prisoners, but the person

562
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:29.800
said if they let The person in charge said, if

563
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:33.719
they let the children live, they would become future yeri jeros.

564
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:37.920
So Rufina Amaya heard them as they murdered the children.

565
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:42.880
She heard the children scream and cry. She heard them, Sorry,

566
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.559
this is just hard, it's hard to read. Yeah, So

567
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:50.400
she heard them cry out for their mothers. But of

568
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:53.599
course the mothers were all dead already, and so were

569
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:57.800
their dads. Right. She fought the urge to leave her

570
00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:01.159
own hiding spot because she heard her own children. She

571
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:04.960
knew her own children were among the kids, and she

572
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:09.519
stayed put, and she cried and begged to liven. There

573
00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:12.719
was a lupa for forgiveness. She knew that if she moved,

574
00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:16.880
she would be killed two and she knew then that

575
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.079
her purpose was to share this atrocity with the world.

576
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:24.119
There were soldiers everywhere, and she wasn't sure how she

577
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:27.480
was going to escape. And I didn't include this in

578
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.920
the notes, but she did hear her own children screaming

579
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:33.920
out for her, like it's just so durable, it is,

580
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:37.119
And I didn't let that own. She couldn't do anything

581
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:40.159
because obviously she knew she wouldn't survive. She you know,

582
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:42.039
asked it upon it, which is why he said she

583
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:45.960
fought the urge. But I'm like those the rings you know,

584
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:49.079
to do that I can't and if because if she had,

585
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:53.960
you know, might not even know about this, Yeah, exactly,

586
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:55.719
And that's what I'm saying, Like she knew that she

587
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:59.559
needed to to tell this story. She was the first

588
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:05.519
survivor to tell her testimony, the first one. So she

589
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:09.199
did hear her own children calling her name. But I

590
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:11.360
just didn't write that part down because I would not

591
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:14.159
have been able to read it. But she did hear that.

592
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:19.280
So there were soldiers everywhere. She didn't know how she

593
00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:22.719
was going to escape, but a herd of cows and

594
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.760
a group of dogs were passing by, and she crawled

595
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:29.840
between them. She crawled for a good while among the animals,

596
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:31.960
and then she dug a hole with her bare hands

597
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:35.519
and she hid there. That's where she started to cry

598
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:38.920
for the first time that or more since since this happened,

599
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:41.519
and she said that she felt like she wanted to die.

600
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:45.440
She cried and begged and prayed for help to keep going,

601
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:49.440
and eventually she did. She continued to crawl. She even

602
00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:53.199
crawled past a sleeping soldier. By the time she was spottish,

603
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:56.480
she was too far so they did try to fire

604
00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.679
at her. They attempted to find her, but by some miracle,

605
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.880
they failed. And in her video it's I I will

606
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:04.840
link it in the show notes, but in her video

607
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:08.039
where she's telling the story, she's stood in Elmosote where

608
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:11.039
all this happened, and she's walking the path that she

609
00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:14.079
walked to high and she's walking along and she's like

610
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:18.079
a guiz on the mescondi bachaqui, like I went down

611
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:21.280
this path, I hit right here, this is where I

612
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:24.119
dug the hole, like she's pointing all this out. If

613
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:27.800
you know Spanish, it is one hundred percent worth watching

614
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:31.400
the video, though again it is very hard to watch,

615
00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:34.039
but it is her telling her own story, and she's

616
00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:36.639
in the place that happened. She's showing the tree she

617
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:41.880
hid at like everything it's yeah, it's it's a lot

618
00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:46.119
by some miracle, she says. They failed to find her.

619
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:49.199
She could hear the soldiers looking for her. One of

620
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:54.559
them said, aquino nadas pantan, there's no one here. It's

621
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:58.239
the dead trying to scare us. She hit among them

622
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:02.840
at gay plants until the next day. Then she traveled

623
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:06.199
through the Magay field until she reached a river. She

624
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.039
walked along that river for a long time until she

625
00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:12.840
found a little house. That's where she stayed for six days.

626
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:18.039
She estimate estimates that ten days past since she Skiedel Mosote.

627
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:21.400
She was cold, hungry, and thirsty, and she prayed to

628
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:24.719
God to find other people. After she left the house.

629
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:27.960
A little girl and her mom found Rufina. They took

630
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:31.519
her in, cleaned her, and they went looking for Rufina's

631
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:34.599
oldest daughter, who no longer lived in in Mosote. When

632
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:39.800
the massacre occurred, Getdiyettos came across Rufina. They had seen

633
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.159
the remains of what the army had done, but they

634
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:46.320
were not aware of survivors until they found Rufina. She

635
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:49.119
told them what they saw, and they broadcasted a mass

636
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:52.159
on the night of the thirty first, and they this

637
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:54.599
is where they said in memory of the one thousand

638
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.480
massacred citizens. Before that, nobody knew. So this is the

639
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:00.800
first time she shared her to the mooney with the

640
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:06.320
people who did Benceremos or Vencemos. I can't remember right now.

641
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:09.719
I don't write it down. I think it's ben Ceremos

642
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:14.239
the radio. If you've if you've seen the movie Votes

643
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:18.800
No Sentees, Venceremos or Vincemo's Radio. It comes up a lot.

644
00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:21.199
I just don't remember right now. I'm drawing a blink,

645
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.719
but it's one of those two. But they are the

646
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:27.440
first ones to have brought it to their public, to

647
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:32.360
their audience. Then President Duarte got on the air, denied

648
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:37.440
the accusations himself, writing it off as Garia propaganda. At

649
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:39.960
the time, it was true that Geria did not have

650
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:43.039
the exact amounts of the people and they they said

651
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:45.440
one thousand, but there was never not an official cow

652
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:49.519
at the time. After that, Rufina was reunited with her

653
00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:53.480
oldest daughter and she took her in and helped her

654
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:58.000
start eating again. Rufina was distraught. I mean, she had

655
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:02.800
just she lost four children at her eldest daughter was pregnant,

656
00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:04.880
and she would tell her, like, mom, please, you have

657
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.960
to eat. We only have each other left. And if

658
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.400
you won't, if you don't eat, I won't eat, and

659
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:13.679
your grandbaby will die. Not the way I'm saying it,

660
00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:17.760
but but yeah, but yeah, and I mean, yeah, I

661
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:20.400
believe it. That's a lot of us framed things like that.

662
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:24.679
And you know, so Ruvina did begin to eat because

663
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:27.840
of that, and she regained her strength little by little.

664
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:30.840
When she talks about it now, she doesn't tear up

665
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:35.800
retelling their story until she talks about her children, obviously,

666
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:37.920
you know. But the hardest part for her is talking

667
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:40.920
about her own children. So they were nine, five and

668
00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:45.679
three and eight months old. Their names were. I know

669
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:49.360
when I first read this, Sammy was around eight months old,

670
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:53.079
and that was like crying like a little baby reading this,

671
00:42:54.039 --> 00:43:01.000
especially this next part. So their names were Christino, Mariadoldo, Maria, Lilian,

672
00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:04.480
and Maria is Sabel. Again, a very common thing back

673
00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:09.000
then was to name your baby's Sorry, we have our

674
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:13.119
own aunts. Our own theaters are basically all Maria, yeah,

675
00:43:13.159 --> 00:43:15.920
our own mothers. So it was very common to have

676
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.320
the first name be Maria and then to always call

677
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:22.920
the baby the middle name. So our own mother, her

678
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.360
first name is Maria. She doesn't go by Maria and

679
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:27.599
a lot of our other tias. It's the same thing.

680
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:31.559
So before people are like, why is there three Marias,

681
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:34.719
that's because to her they were probably the lost Liliana

682
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.440
and Isabel, Yeah, on top of the other nicknames they

683
00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:44.679
probably had because yeah. So she says that at the time,

684
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:48.360
she cried, and she cried because she was still nursing

685
00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:50.599
her eight month old and her body didn't know that

686
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:54.320
the baby was gone, and she continued to produce breast

687
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:58.039
milk and every time Rufina felt the milk, because I mean,

688
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:01.079
you haven't breastfed yet, Karmeen or I don't know if

689
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:03.159
you're ever will because a lot of people don't want to.

690
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:07.280
And that's fine. Yeah, so your body does continue to

691
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:10.280
produce breast milk. And then you know, if your baby's

692
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:12.079
crying and you're like at work and you hear a

693
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:15.440
crying baby, you feel it and it has a very

694
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:21.079
weird feeling. And if you don't pump or nurse, their hurts.

695
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:25.360
And it was painful for Rufina because then it was

696
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:28.000
also a reminder that she was supposed to be fitting

697
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:31.719
a baby, her baby was not supposed to be dead,

698
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:35.599
and her body didn't know. And you know, after a while,

699
00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:39.800
Rufina no longer cried. She began to say, I'm gonna

700
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:43.280
get word out. I'm gonna begin to tell what happened.

701
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:49.519
So after a month, a month after the massacre, three

702
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:54.039
journalists met with the g Rieos and they they told

703
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:58.960
them about Rufina. So Rufina spoke with them, told them everything.

704
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:02.599
Six after the killings, the Washington Post ran a front

705
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:07.199
page story with the headline Salvadoran peasants described mass killings.

706
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:12.079
Women tells of children's death, that women is Rufina Maya,

707
00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:16.679
followed by the New York Times story headlined massacre of

708
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:22.920
hundreds reported in Salvadoran village. The official US investigation concluded

709
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:26.000
that it was not possible to prove or disprove excess

710
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:30.039
violence against civilians by government troops. But it is certain

711
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:33.840
that guerrilla forces established defense holes in the area, and

712
00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:36.800
they did nothing to remove civilians in the path of battle,

713
00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:40.039
Nor is there evidence as civilians made an attempt to leave.

714
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:43.199
They found no evidence that the number of civilians was

715
00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:47.599
anywhere near the mounth that had been circulating. That's a

716
00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:51.679
bunch of bullshit, Yeah, and that was said at the time,

717
00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:55.440
and so that's just you know, what was being reported

718
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:59.599
by the United States at the time. So Rufina Maya says,

719
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:02.039
I don't think this has been easy. It has been

720
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:05.239
very hard, and yet there are people who deny this happened.

721
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:09.679
It happened. I was there, I survived those who suffered. No,

722
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:12.440
this is the truth. She said this in nineteen ninety

723
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:16.039
during the other trial, through the first trial. That sorry,

724
00:46:16.039 --> 00:46:18.519
the other testimonies I read those were during the same trial.

725
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:24.119
Her and another survivor, pedro Chica's rometro Chica still recognize

726
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:27.199
that last name. So they were the ones who filed

727
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:30.760
the first criminal complaint against the battalion, and Rufina Maya

728
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:34.559
was the first to testify before filing the nineteen ninety

729
00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.760
complaint a month after the massacre. That's when Rufina met

730
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:40.800
with the reporters and told them what happened. She didn't

731
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.280
think about how she would become a trigger herself. After

732
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:48.800
sharing what had happened, she said, why wouldn't I share

733
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:53.039
the truth? It's what happened. The Salvadorian government denied it happening,

734
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:58.880
so did the US government, and Rufina, knowing that they

735
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:02.360
were basically called in her a liar, she continued to

736
00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:06.280
tell the story again and again. She talked to journalists.

737
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:09.480
She presented her testimony to the British Parliament, to the

738
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:15.559
US Congress, to organizations across Europe and Canada. She presented

739
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.679
her testimony during her protest in front of the School

740
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:22.960
of Americas, which had been moved before Benning. They did

741
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:26.679
eventually get this place shut down, by the way, and

742
00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:30.840
she went up against two whole governments to tell her truth.

743
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:36.000
Even after journalists released her testimony, both governments insisted that

744
00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:40.960
any casualties were poorly armed rebels. The United States didn't

745
00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:45.000
want another Miley the Vietnam story in their history, so

746
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:48.119
of course they were going to deny this. And again

747
00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:51.119
that was the mass murder of Vietnamese civilians by infantry

748
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:54.719
units in the US Army, so that was actual US army.

749
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:58.519
So they were going to do whatever they could to

750
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:04.719
discredit Rufina Maya. But Rufina, she continued to directly contradict

751
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:08.280
the statements of the US and the Salvadorian governments with

752
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:12.880
her testimony, and her testimony was vital to the investigation

753
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:16.199
that was led by the United Nations. And this was

754
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:22.880
the investigation that allowed the exhumations to occur and the

755
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:28.320
bodies or the exhumation that was done in nineteen ninety two,

756
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:33.239
and that would not have happened without Rufina Maya. And

757
00:48:33.559 --> 00:48:38.559
once the bodies were all e zoomed, then the account

758
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:44.440
Rufina's account was officially confirmed because there was children found

759
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:49.320
among these people. On the twenty fifth anniversary of Almosote,

760
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:53.440
Rufina Maya said, I'm not afraid. Maybe next December I

761
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:56.199
won't be here, but I asked that you never abandoned

762
00:48:56.199 --> 00:48:58.880
the memory of our children, of all the victims of

763
00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:04.119
elmos Sote. That was on the twenty fifth anniversary at

764
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:09.079
the time of recording the So we're recording on a

765
00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:12.559
Wednesday for the fourteenth and the day before this episode's

766
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:16.760
gonna come out, so on the eleventh. That of twenty

767
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:20.159
twenty two of December. It's the forty first anniversary of

768
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:22.800
en Mosote. Oh, that was on the twenty fifth anniversary.

769
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:28.719
So it's been twenty something more years now, mm hmm. Yeah.

770
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:32.000
Rufina lived in on Dudas for a while. She would

771
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:37.320
continue to testify when needed, if journalists, reporters, literally anyone, anyone.

772
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:40.920
The a random YouTube channel has is people who have

773
00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:44.280
her story up like she would just whoever ask her,

774
00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:47.440
she would share her story again and again. She never

775
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:50.800
denied a visitor. She became a lay minister for the

776
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:54.239
Catholic Church when she was living here in that and

777
00:49:54.280 --> 00:49:56.480
on Dudas. I think or was she back in Savadorda,

778
00:49:56.480 --> 00:49:58.639
Sorry I didn't, I think in Sara Vadoda and she

779
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:02.159
worked with other survivors the civil War. She passed away

780
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.800
from a stroke on March nineteen thousand and seven in

781
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:09.079
Santa Valor. She died before she could see any sort

782
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:12.079
of justice for the loved ones she lost that at Mosote.

783
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:19.239
The war ended with a treaty in nineteen ninety two,

784
00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:24.000
and this treaty included in amnesty for the military and

785
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:26.199
so this made it so no one could be tried

786
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:29.840
for any of the atrocities atrocities that took place during

787
00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:35.559
the civil war, and this included Mosothe. However, this treaty

788
00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:41.599
was found unconstitutional in twenty sixteen. So this is what

789
00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:47.719
made them pursue the people that committed war crimes during

790
00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:51.400
the civil war because they found they went. The way

791
00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:54.880
they went after to go about this was to declare

792
00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:58.800
that treaty and constitutional, and so Judge Jrge Guzman Urkiya

793
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:03.800
reopened the case for Elmosote in March twenty seventeen. He

794
00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:07.480
charged eighteen high ranking military officials for war crimes or

795
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:11.400
crimes against humanity. And when the case was reopened in

796
00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:17.360
twenty sixteen, Rufina's youngest daughter, Maria Marita Amaya, continued her

797
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:21.360
mother's work, sharing testimony and advocating for the victims of Elmosote,

798
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:24.800
but she noticed that she was being followed and one

799
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:29.599
day a man dressed in camouflage and a bus threatened

800
00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:33.000
her her life. So she requested asylum in the United

801
00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:35.880
States and it was granted, so she's no longer in Aencelerado.

802
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:40.719
This is new information that I found. But during a

803
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:43.400
pre trial hearing in April twenty twenty, it was revealed

804
00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:48.000
that a United States military advisor, Sergeant Major Allen Bruce Hazelwood,

805
00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:52.920
was and then Morosan sorry, Mora san, sorry, I can't

806
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:56.960
talk today with Colonel Domingo monte Rosa. If you'll remember

807
00:51:56.960 --> 00:51:59.280
from the test soldier's testimony, this was one of the

808
00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:06.599
leading individuals of Colonel Domingo monte Rosa, the commander of

809
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:11.559
the at La Gte Battalion. So this revelation was done

810
00:52:11.599 --> 00:52:18.159
by expert witness Terry carl and she has done an

811
00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:21.320
insane amount of work and she's basically an expert on

812
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.880
the Salvadoran Civil War. She has read any document in

813
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:28.360
existence of the civil war, she has read it, and

814
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:31.039
I think she's like an anthropologist or something like that,

815
00:52:31.159 --> 00:52:36.519
sociologists probably one of those. But she found in one

816
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:40.800
of those documents, she found that this US military advisor

817
00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:45.760
was present, so he was like hondering, so he knew yes.

818
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:50.440
So if the US continues to try to say they

819
00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:54.519
had nothing and no involvement. This fool was there mm hmmm,

820
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:57.360
so they can stop denying their bullshit. Yeah, he was

821
00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:06.039
there when the order was given. So in twenty twenty,

822
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:09.679
the investigation of Enmosote is still ongoing. What's still ongoing?

823
00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:13.719
It's still ongoing now. It hasn't gone anywhere because of Bukele.

824
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:19.320
President Nai Bukele was blocking the investigation, claiming the judge

825
00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:22.800
had no jurisdiction over the military hiding milk, the request

826
00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:26.920
for military documentation, just not giving it up, saying he's

827
00:53:26.920 --> 00:53:31.320
saying this documentation didn't exist. He kept handing over documents

828
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:34.559
that judges already had. And then in twenty twenty one,

829
00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:39.400
Bukele passed legislation that would force the judge judges over

830
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:43.400
sixty to retire, and this included Judge Guzman who was

831
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:49.239
overseen or conducting the investigation of n Mosote. Then the

832
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:52.320
Supreme Court announced that Guzman could stay on, but then

833
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:55.199
he said if all the other judges were fired, he

834
00:53:55.239 --> 00:53:58.159
would quit. But it looks like Bukele got what he wanted. Ye,

835
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:01.079
he did get this to pass. Yeah, so it wasn't

836
00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:04.159
Gusman who decided to retire, like he fired all of them.

837
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:10.760
So let's see December twenty twenty one, this did that's

838
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:13.800
when this happened. All the judges were fired. The trial

839
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:17.920
has to start over. In February twenty twenty two, sixteen

840
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:20.559
more bodies were e zoomed in a mass grave and

841
00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:23.360
they were found to be victims of nmosote. So as

842
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:28.079
of right now, the trial has not moved forward, and

843
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:33.039
they're like basically deny, trying to deny is it happened still,

844
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:36.639
or saying things like we can't live in the past.

845
00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:40.440
We can't. It's more painful to bring up the past.

846
00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:45.360
It's bullshit, And yeah, people deserve justice because it's not

847
00:54:46.039 --> 00:54:48.079
completely in the past. First of all, we should never

848
00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:52.239
forget the past. No, that's like you know when we

849
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:55.079
talk about slavery here and people are like, it's in

850
00:54:55.159 --> 00:54:58.719
the past, but that's even further back than this, you know.

851
00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:01.599
So that's just a bunch of bullshit because the government

852
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:04.079
doesn't want to take accountability and they want to continue

853
00:55:04.519 --> 00:55:09.199
with their like authoritarian techniques and stuff, and they want

854
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:11.840
to continue with their anti indigen eighty you know what

855
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:15.719
I mean. Yeah, and I just want to end this

856
00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:19.960
with this is called the poem of the offended. It

857
00:55:20.039 --> 00:55:24.679
was written by Roquet Dalton Dalton, I don't know. He's

858
00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:27.960
a selfdan poet, though very well known poet that I don't.

859
00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:33.880
I don't know. So he says, or this is the poem.

860
00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:37.079
Part of the poem in English, the hour of my

861
00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:40.920
turn has come, the turn of the offended salients for years,

862
00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:45.719
despite the screams hush, hush, listen. And I did write

863
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:48.000
it in Spanish as well, or not write it, but

864
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:52.480
copy and pasted it in Spanish. The whole thing. I

865
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:56.280
just don't know how to say. May abbas, may abbas Abbe.

866
00:55:56.440 --> 00:55:58.280
I haven't said That's what I've been saying, Yeah, whatever,

867
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:03.079
just saying, okay Abbe. Abbey is gol piadotando like cre

868
00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:08.599
Mano and Rostro the casto commona floor on the vera

869
00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:15.760
ma abbas and Carcelado aun mass convesto ojos ira iracundos

870
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:21.239
moriendos the frio mi corazon paco del Audio. Abbey is

871
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:30.119
the spress siadamor oh race t cardis abbas, the spressors

872
00:56:30.280 --> 00:56:36.400
reis test whatever, the real ruboroso sincere and tan los

873
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:40.840
la brintos demura Aura is Laura. This is the part

874
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:47.039
that I translated Aura is lauramool ferndido poro silioso a

875
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:53.039
p the Los gritos Escucca escucca m that's the easiest

876
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:58.679
part of that to pronounce. But yes, that was El

877
00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:05.480
Mosote long episode. Yeah, that was so heavy too. Yeah,

878
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:10.599
talk about these things, but it's necessary, it is, and

879
00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:13.039
the anniversary just happened, which is why I was like,

880
00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:15.239
I know, I've already said part of this on his

881
00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:18.119
Spooky Tales, but I haven't shared the other testimony and

882
00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:21.280
the newest, newest information on the trial. And I just

883
00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:23.440
hope that it moves forward. But it also is a

884
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:27.760
good thing to listen to before your topic because Nai

885
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.440
is part of this. Now, there's a lot of things

886
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:37.880
that you can talk about about Nai Bukele, but I

887
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:42.960
think I'm gonna narrow it down to the state of exception. Okay, yeah,

888
00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:46.840
but I mean there's a bunch of bullshit, right Bitcoin, Yeah,

889
00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:53.400
Beach or whatever he redained that stupid shit. Yeah, the

890
00:57:53.559 --> 00:57:57.320
judge thing. You already talked about that. But basically, you know,

891
00:57:57.800 --> 00:58:02.679
he's on his way already. He's known as the he's

892
00:58:04.119 --> 00:58:08.559
as a dictator. Basically, oh, one hundred percent not Basically

893
00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:13.039
it has like a name, the kind of like dictatorship

894
00:58:13.159 --> 00:58:16.119
that he is. I don't know. I don't want to

895
00:58:16.119 --> 00:58:19.639
call it his brand, but it's like, yeah, no, I

896
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:22.360
get what they call it. I think I wrote it

897
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:24.880
down somewhere or I saved the article. But it's like

898
00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:30.480
millennial authoritarianism or something like that's what they're calling that shit. Yeah, yeah,

899
00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:34.360
and I we are going to leave you with this

900
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:40.559
very depressing episode. We're gonna take a break to process. No, no,

901
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:42.880
but we are going to take a break because we're

902
00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:45.920
gonna be hanging out. Yeah, we're going to be together

903
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:49.880
in IRL in IRL. So yeah, we're gonna be taking

904
00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:51.519
a break until the new year. So we'll be back

905
00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:55.480
with a new episode on the fifth of January. And

906
00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:57.719
I know you said this was a depressing episode, but

907
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:01.880
more than that, it's a story of resist and oh yes,

908
00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:08.079
and yeah, how sharing our truths holds you know, people

909
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:10.760
accountable who try to get away less shit even though

910
00:59:10.760 --> 00:59:13.840
they have been held accountable. But people know the atrocities now,

911
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:15.639
you know what I mean. And we're gonna make it

912
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:18.480
more known. Okay, like we're gonna keep talking about this, yes,

913
00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:26.559
every very anniversary, No me neither. Yeah so yeah. Happy Holidays,

914
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:36.159
Hug your loved ones, and Fuck Reagan by my Estorias

915
00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:39.199
Are Known. Is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by

916
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:42.480
Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can find sources

917
00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:45.199
for every episode at Estoria Unknown dot com and in

918
00:59:45.320 --> 00:59:47.880
our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot of work,

919
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:49.840
so if you want to help us out financially, you

920
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:53.519
can do so by supporting us on Patreon at patreon

921
00:59:53.559 --> 00:59:55.360
dot com. Slash She studied as an own podcast